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News Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
The character permeation / dilution is absolutely present in Tokyo. The difference is, that's exactly what is wanted over there.

It should be noted though that the character push in Tokyo is more specific than the general IP mandate for the other parks.

Marvel is non existent, Star Tours is the only Star Wars thing. Pixar is just Toy Story, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo.

They're getting Disney proper. It's Peter Pan and Beauty and the Beast not BB8 and Thor.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
It should be noted though that the character push in Tokyo is more specific than the general IP mandate for the other parks.

Marvel is non existent, Star Tours is the only Star Wars thing. Pixar is just Toy Story, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo.

They're getting Disney proper. It's Peter Pan and Beauty and the Beast not BB8 and Thor.
IP is IP.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
If Imagineers can't tell Chapek or any executive why something doesn't work without fear of termination, that's a problem. This is one of the many reasons the Eisner/Wells dynamic worked so well.

I suspect that Tom Fitzgerald disagreed with EPCOT's direction and it's why we see more Zach Riddley now. I also think your other veteran Imagineers saw the writing on the wall that they would be creatively neutered by this leadership.

This.

-
 

BasiltheBatLord

Well-Known Member
It should be noted though that the character push in Tokyo is more specific than the general IP mandate for the other parks.

Marvel is non existent, Star Tours is the only Star Wars thing. Pixar is just Toy Story, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo.

They're getting Disney proper. It's Peter Pan and Beauty and the Beast not BB8 and Thor.
Because Star Wars and Marvel are (comparatively speaking) not that popular in Japan. OLC is following the money just like TWDC is. The difference is that OLC has higher standards.
 
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danv3

Well-Known Member
Saw Harm in person tonight. Initial impressions from watching online videos generally hold true. The show is technically impressive, but shows its entire hand in Act 1. The musical arrangements are bad, though the selections themselves are fine. There’s no flow and the lack of a story and theme song are a major hindrance.

Overall, it’s a step down from EF (which was not good) and definitely worse than Disney Enchantment (which I saw last night and rate a solid “meh…ok I guess”). For me, Harm will fundamentally change how I experience EPCOT. I used to watch RoE almost every time I was in EPCOT at night. I have no desire to ever see Harm again.
 

wtyy21

Active Member
So now Steve Davison is pinning Chapec to this disaster? First of all Chapec should never be involved in any Disney creativity, he’s basically an accountant, a crook and entrepreneur and that’s all he’ll ever be.
I agree. Assuming that Chapek is not Disney Parks or TWDC chairman, Davison would be free to concepting a Disney nighttime spectacular based on his ideas. Davison even can make a true concept art of the 50th anniversary fireworks of the MK (The name can be still Enchantment, but instead showcasing past and present rides/attractions/shows on four WDW parks and films related to them), which is more similar to RDCT, Celebrate! TDL, 1999 FitS, and EF.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
Just watched some of this and...yikes. The last few years have been painful to watch, especially as an EPCOT Center nerd, but this might have been the thing to really break me.

I don't know, man; I'm in my mid-30s, born a few years after EPCOT Center opened. I grew up right on the cusp of the whole "Disney Renaissance" era, so I have plenty of memories of Beauty and the Beast/Aladdin/Lion King/etc. flooding the airwaves with toy ads and tie-in promotions and appearing in the parks in different ways. But it means I also still got to grow up with a Disney that felt like it didn't just want to be that, you know? The parks always felt like they contained a whole universe of things Disney wanted to have a hand in: the animated films were highlighted, certainly, but so was everything from the art of moviemaking, to "hey, check out this awesome dinosaur diorama", to properties that came from outside the Disney canon (though obviously the Muppets and Lucasfilm stuff are all under the umbrella, now), and all kinds of experiences that felt Disney without feeling like it was trying to sell you a brand called Disney. That extended to everything from new, original attractions, to theming and entertainment/shows in restaurants, to the level of guest services you'd receive in the parks and around the resort, and that vibe stuck around for a good, long while.

The original EPCOT wanted to be something else, too; it played on Walt's city idea and his futurism hobbies, and even when it shifted around the mid-90s and lost a lot of what had made it great it at least tried to remain distinct and different, so that a day at EPCOT didn't feel like a day at Magic Kingdom. And I appreciated that! Since I was a very small child, fortunate enough to grow up under circumstances that allowed my family to visit WDW around once a year, EPCOT was always where my heart was when we'd visit. Losing Dreamfinder, Horizons, and the rest was always a gut punch, but the skeleton of a monumental accomplishment in themed entertainment remained, so you could always sit there and armchair imagineer what felt like realistic solutions that, hey, maybe they'd just be a few years away!

But I think that's gone, now. Change is inevitable, no one would deny that, and the parks can't remain preserved in amber, but this just isn't EPCOT anymore. Again, even as a small child Disney meant a lot more to me than "just" Mickey and friends, or "just" the animated movies; but the more I see from the parks in recent years, the more I feel like there's less to be had from the experience if you're not going in a fully committed fan of the enormous amount of content Disney churns out every month...and I'm just not. I have plenty of Disney movies/properties I've loved throughout my life, but enjoying them never felt like a requisite for enjoying what WDW had to offer.

Again, EPCOT was the escape from that: it was the "different" park. It was, again, "Disney" without feeling like they were selling you "Disney". I'll say once more, even as a child I loved that there was a place I could go in the resort where I wasn't being bombarded with Mickey and the others (even though I still liked meeting them when I was little!), yet everything still felt authentically "Disney". But now it's not just enough to have a casual understanding of Disney's classic films and then go and enjoy the rest of what they have to offer: they expect you to be a Disney+ subscriber who isn't missing any new films from any of their major studios, who brings the kids to see every one of them even as they come out month after month after month, not every few years like the ancient days. And I don't enjoy that. I don't want to have to know who Anna and Elsa are in order to enjoy the Norway pavilion. I shouldn't need to stay on top of Pixar's or Marvel's release schedule to fully enjoy the parks. Having them around isn't so bad, MGM always had an annual parade based around the newest animated films, but they're everything now about the park experience.

And sadly, in the era of these online streaming megaservices, as seen in cynical material like the latest Space Jam movie we're just living in a world of these megacorporations sucking up every property they can get their hands on and throwing it in our faces so that we'll subscribe, buy, and build our lives around them, because "Hey, you remember THIS movie you loved as a kid?! Here, have an endless supply of it!" It's references instead of actual experiences, and it's shallow and it's dull and it's dispiriting.

I was in EPCOT in 2019, my last trip as of this writing, and literally teared up at the finale of Reflections of Earth, partly due to the knowledge it'd be the last time I'd see it but also due to the amazing musical score and the way the pyrotechnics synced up so well with it all. And then we got the word that the replacement would be...another show where they basically have you sing-a-long to your "favorite" Disney songs. Because we can't get that anywhere else? Thousands and thousands of acres of property, yet the parks all have to be homogenized: same songs, same movies, same merchandise, same "GO HOME AND SUBCRIBE TO DISNEY+ TODAY" messaging.

tl;dr - I'm not a "the past was always better!" guy. I have a MA in history, I know full well the past was usually pretty awful in most regards. But this just feels dystopian to me, and seeing it replace something as beautiful and moving as RoE feels like the straw that's breaking the camel's back for me. I wanted to get back to WDW by 2022 for the EPCOT 40th, but I'm starting to question why I'd bother...and I'm questioning why I'd bring a potential future child of mine, since there's nothing there to build a connection with outside of "look, honey, there's that character from one of the movies Disney gets me to put on a rotation to stream for you!" Scary stuff.
Boy, do I feel this in every part of my soul. I'm also mid-30s and my family also went to WDW every year at least once a year. So I too grew up with those classic 90s Disney movies with the iconic songs, but also with Disney parks that FELT Disney without cramming Disney products down your throat. You are my people ❤️
 

Magic Feather

Well-Known Member
So I think I finally nailed down my biggest issue with the show: half of the songs belong in other parks.

I’m not actually looking up the playlist, so I’m probably going to miss a segment, but out of all of them, I’d really only consider Coco, Mulan, Hunchback, and I can make the case for Brave and Aladdin (given the arrangements used) as IP associated with the park.

Perhaps the biggest offenders were the Lion King and Jungle Book, which are really the two IP’s most associated with DAK (which now can’t have an IP based show without overlap). Plus, unlike how HEA used the obscure That’s What Friends are For and Mufasa Monologue to get a pass, this uses some of the songs most prominent from the film.

Also, Tiana and Beauty and the Beast definitely belonged in MK.

It just felt like a popular Disney song highlight reel with no care put into what park it’s in and what IPs are associated with the park.

Now, I know there’s a lot of “this show should even have IP” and, while fair, I don’t see us getting another one of those for a while, if ever. So, as kind of a finale, my armchair playlist for a Harm type show.

Scrap the opening number and replace it with Vuelie from Frozen. The few seconds that songs is featured in the opening really set the tone well. Replace the sunrise with the Northern Lights and your good.

Same Format with the individual segments except fewer cuts to black, using the following IP’s (and light up the stinking country it represents while you do it):
Coco, Mulan, Pinocchio or Lady+Tramp, Aladdin, Hunchback+Rat, Brave.

Finish it off with a finale song that’s actually original. Someday is a nice song but I found it’s lyrics to be a tad… basic? Not sure if ending it on a reflective note with a slower song aka Harm and RoE is the right move; it doesn’t really match the tone of the show to be honest.

Anyways, there are my extended thoughts that nobody asked for.
 

FigmentForever96

Active Member
Watched Harmonious tonight....how is anyone complaining about this? It was FANTASTIC!! Don't judge it until you see it in person. Much more impressive.
I seriously wanted to hate this show with every fiber of my being, I really did. I still can’t forgive the mess that sits all day in the lagoon but this soundtrack is beautiful. The whole idea that nighttime shows need a “story” need to be successful is, an opinion that anyone deserves the right too, but a poor one in my mind. Fantasy in the Sky was nothing but musical arrangements that went on for decades and nobody fussed. Correct me If I’m wrong but storytelling didn’t start happening till Fantasmic! With Illumnations: ROE and Wishes not coming along till 2000 and beyond.

the show has an overreaching theme that were all connected through song. One could argue they shouldn’t have used Disney songs sure, but that, in its own way, is beautiful. That songs from these Disney films are heard and sung across countries of the world and that somehow makes us all feel a bit closer. The show isn’t perfect by any means, it does kinda song hop but overall the tech, scores and pyro are all beautiful.
I kinda hate myself for liking it so much but I think I’ve played the soundtrack daily now driving to work.
 

bcoachable

Well-Known Member
I seriously wanted to hate this show with every fiber of my being, I really did. I still can’t forgive the mess that sits all day in the lagoon but this soundtrack is beautiful. The whole idea that nighttime shows need a “story” need to be successful is, an opinion that anyone deserves the right too, but a poor one in my mind. Fantasy in the Sky was nothing but musical arrangements that went on for decades and nobody fussed. Correct me If I’m wrong but storytelling didn’t start happening till Fantasmic! With Illumnations: ROE and Wishes not coming along till 2000 and beyond.

the show has an overreaching theme that were all connected through song. One could argue they shouldn’t have used Disney songs sure, but that, in its own way, is beautiful. That songs from these Disney films are heard and sung across countries of the world and that somehow makes us all feel a bit closer. The show isn’t perfect by any means, it does kinda song hop but overall the tech, scores and pyro are all beautiful.
I kinda hate myself for liking it so much but I think I’ve played the soundtrack daily now driving to work.
I’m really glad to hear people, such as yourself, are enjoying it. The theme of “we’re all in this together” is evident-
I sure think the storytelling giant, that is Disney, could have woven it together in a better way- such as was mentioned- light up the country the song is representing- so simple, yet would have been a cool nod to each pavilion/song.
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
It just felt like a popular Disney song highlight reel with no care put into what park it’s in and what IPs are associated with the park.
There it is, the thing that bothers me the most.

Well that and it playing it's entire hand of surprises in the first 90 seconds, how the pavilions only get lit up in the beginning section for a quick bit, and using the new Epcot theme two times about 10 seconds each.

More then anything that soundtrack needs help though. It's as bad as RoL: We Are One when it comes to transitions.
 

FigmentForever96

Active Member
I’m really glad to hear people, such as yourself, are enjoying it. The theme of “we’re all in this together” is evident-
I sure think the storytelling giant, that is Disney, could have woven it together in a better way- such as was mentioned- light up the country the song is representing- so simple, yet would have been a cool nod to each pavilion/song.
I thought the same about lightning up the countries, probably a needed touch and the show could’ve used some nice transitions. I was a ROE die hard. I went to the final shows and screamed murdered knowing what was coming. So I’m shocked I avtually liked it
 

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