News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[UNCgolf]

But as someone pointed out yesterday with the relatively slow speed of the gondolas I believe (can't remember if it was in this thread or not), it would make for pretty long transit times from AKL to either Epcot or DHS.

I've mentioned this elsewhere -- the Skyliner would not be an ideal means of transport across longer distances. They don't move quickly anyways, and they have to slow down even more for any turn stations. Some of the trips people have hypothesized about here could easily be 45+ minutes long. AKL to EPCOT/DHS wouldn't be that bad, but trying to use it to get all the way to the Magic Kingdom would be a nightmare.

If they could do a straight line connection from AKL to the DHS Skyliner stop it would probably only be a 10 minute trip, but I don't think a straight line would be possible because it would run through the middle of both Animal Kingdom and DHS.

And that's not even factoring in that it won't run during thunderstorms.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, as it would also connect the only park with only bus transportation to 2 big resorts who also only have bus transit (as well as connecting to a larger system). But as someone pointed out yesterday with the relatively slow speed of the gondolas I believe (can't remember if it was in this thread or not), it would make for pretty long transit times from AKL to either Epcot or DHS.

Wouldn’t that be a benefit? The longer the “scenic ride” from hotel to park to park…the less crunch on time and space in the park.

This was on another thread awhile ago…but I was told from what would qualify as a “trusted source” that the reason the parks/lines/food crunch has been such a mess recently is that no one is park hopping/leaving the park because of the fear of the crowds…

That can’t be understated…for 30 years as a mechanism and attendance grew…the time it took for people to hop allowed a lot of bottleneck alleviation through the parks. It just wasn’t obvious to point to.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I've mentioned this elsewhere -- the Skyliner would not be an ideal means of transport across longer distances. They don't move quickly anyways, and they have to slow down even more for any turn stations. Some of the trips people have hypothesized about here could easily be 45+ minutes long. AKL to EPCOT/DHS wouldn't be that bad, but trying to use it to get all the way to the Magic Kingdom would be a nightmare.

If they could do a straight line connection from AKL to the DHS Skyliner stop it would probably only be a 10 minute trip, but I don't think a straight line would be possible because it would run through the middle of both the Animal Kingdom and DHS.

And that's not even factoring in that it won't run during thunderstorms.

They don’t need the magic kingdom as it currently stands

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Electric motors are still much more efficient than gas engines though, right? So we're talking more about control systems and load/unload times at this point. Maintenance I can understand but I imagine we could redesign these trains to use fewer, more reliable parts. That leaves the tracks themselves.

Modern electric motors are efficient. These were designed to guzzle high voltage in the 50s/60s and have been patched together to do just that ever since. No such a system has been produced for at least 45 years. For a reason. As I understand it

 

[UNCgolf]

They don’t need the magic kingdom as it currently stands

I was just throwing that out there because I've seen people talk about how they should expand it to all the parks, and that just doesn't seem financially worth it because of the long transit times and the fact they'd still have to maintain the exact same bus system. They can cut buses from Skyliner resorts to an extent (the main reason I don't want to stay at a Skyliner resort...) but it's not really an option resort wide due to Skyliner downtimes.

I think the bigger issue with AKL to DHS/EPCOT is the disjointed path it would have to take. I think they'd have to have multiple turn stations and end up turning it into a 20+ minute trip.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was just throwing that out there because I've seen people talk about how they should expand it to all the parks, and that just doesn't seem financially worth it because of the long transit times and the fact they'd still have to maintain the exact same bus system. They can cut buses from Skyliner resorts to an extent (the main reason I don't want to stay at a Skyliner resort...) but it's not really an option resort wide due to Skyliner downtimes.

I think the bigger issue with AKL to DHS/EPCOT is the disjointed path it would have to take. I think they'd have to have multiple turn stations and end up turning it into a 20+ minute trip.

Two things:

1. Buses suck.

2. Buses aren’t that quick.


The main problem is what was highlighted Earlier: the skyliner can’t run with any wind/storms etc. that’s a big problem in Orlando and will increase as weather increases…as it will.

 

[UNCgolf]

Two things:

1. Buses suck.

2. Buses aren’t that quick.


The main problem is what was highlighted Earlier: the skyliner can’t run with any wind/storms etc. that’s a big problem in Orlando and will increase as weather increases…as it will.

I agree, but they're still the best transport option Disney offers. I think the Skyliner sucks even more than buses, but that's beside the point.

A full monorail/light rail system would be by far the best option, but they're never going to do that.

 

[castlecake2.0]

I agree, but they're still the best transport option Disney offers. I think the Skyliner sucks even more than buses, but that's beside the point.

A full monorail/light rail system would be by far the best option, but they're never going to do that.

I always wondered if Reedy Creek could run a transit system on property, but any thought of that was nixed last week

 

[ctrlaltdel]

I've mentioned this elsewhere -- the Skyliner would not be an ideal means of transport across longer distances. They don't move quickly anyways, and they have to slow down even more for any turn stations. Some of the trips people have hypothesized about here could easily be 45+ minutes long. AKL to EPCOT/DHS wouldn't be that bad, but trying to use it to get all the way to the Magic Kingdom would be a nightmare.

If they could do a straight line connection from AKL to the DHS Skyliner stop it would probably only be a 10 minute trip, but I don't think a straight line would be possible because it would run through the middle of both Animal Kingdom and DHS.

And that's not even factoring in that it won't run during thunderstorms.

Tbf as @Sirwalterraleigh says I don't think having a magic kingdom line is necessary. They already have the monorails, boats, and walking paths from the local resorts/connection to other parks. That would be way too far to connect, but I think connecting most of the southern resorts to the parks is key and it is clearly a very popular, low stress (compared to buses) transit option for a lot of people.

I wouldn't say it would terribly inefficient even though a straight line path isn't possible. The line would be over 3 miles long if went from the turn station south of Boardwalk, through CSR, dropped guests off at the front of Animal kingdom, and then into a station in the parking lot of AKL. Would be a long trip from AKL to Epcot/DHS but probably preferable for most deluxe guests over buses.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Tbf as @Sirwalterraleigh says I don't think having a magic kingdom line is necessary. They already have the monorails, boats, and walking paths from the local resorts/connection to other parks. That would be way too far to connect, but I think connecting most of the southern resorts to the parks is key and it is clearly a very popular, low stress (compared to buses) transit option for a lot of people.

I wouldn't say it would terribly inefficient even though a straight line path isn't possible. The line would be over 3 miles long if went from the turn station south of Boardwalk, through CSR, dropped guests off at the front of Animal kingdom, and then into a station in the parking lot of AKL. Would be a long trip from AKL to Epcot/DHS but probably preferable for most deluxe guests over buses.

Doing the “southern strategy” also makes those areas more advantageous to people because it only requires navigating the skyways most of the time…

The natural pull is toward the magic Kingdom but is not the most lucrative for profit potential…that’s Epcot and springs.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I always wondered if Reedy Creek could run a transit system on property, but any thought of that was nixed last week

No it wasn’t at all…

That’s not happening. And Governor Tick and Dr. Evil, CEO won’t be around forever…or long, for that matter

 

[UNCgolf]

Tbf as @Sirwalterraleigh says I don't think having a magic kingdom line is necessary. They already have the monorails, boats, and walking paths from the local resorts/connection to other parks. That would be way too far to connect, but I think connecting most of the southern resorts to the parks is key and it is clearly a very popular, low stress (compared to buses) transit option for a lot of people.

I wouldn't say it would terribly inefficient even though a straight line path isn't possible. The line would be over 3 miles long if went from the turn station south of Boardwalk, through CSR, dropped guests off at the front of Animal kingdom, and then into a station in the parking lot of AKL. Would be a long trip from AKL to Epcot/DHS but probably preferable for most deluxe guests over buses.

I realize I'm almost certainly in the minority, but a Skyliner at AKL might prevent me from staying there. I love AKL, but I hate the Skyliner -- I'd much rather ride a bus (and that's not because I love buses). The Skyliner resorts generally have minimal bus service because they expect guests to just use the Skyliner instead. Plus it gives Disney a reason to jack up the prices even more.

Regardless, I believe Martin said somewhere that an expansion of the Skyliner is unlikely at this point.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

Doing the “southern strategy” also makes those areas more advantageous to people because it only requires navigating the skyways most of the time…

The natural pull is toward the magic Kingdom but is not the most lucrative for profit potential…that’s Epcot and springs.

The biggest issue with connecting Springs is that you likely would have to take a really indirect route if you're going to be able to connect the Disney-owned resorts on that side of property (I would assume the line would end at the Epcot Main Entrance). It's relatively easy to have Saratoga Springs and OKW stations but it would be nice to also connect the Port Orleans resorts as well (so then only the All Stars would have bus only transit to the parks) and that requires a significant jaunt north.

 

[UNCgolf]

The biggest issue with connecting Springs is that you likely would have to take a really indirect route if you're going to be able to connect the Disney-owned resorts on that side of property (I would assume the line would end at the Epcot Main Entrance). It's relatively easy to have Saratoga Springs and OKW stations but it would be nice to also connect the Port Orleans resorts as well (so then only the All Stars would have bus only transit to the parks) and that requires a significant gaunt north.

I think this was part of the reason Martin said an expansion was unlikely. I could be making this up, but I believe he suggested the difficulties involved in connecting all the different resorts with turn stations etc. made the cost too high to be worth it.

A big part of the problem is that even if they did so, they'd still have to keep most or all the buses operational and keep drivers on standby for thunderstorms (or for when the Skyliner goes down for other reasons, which isn't common, but also isn't exceptionally rare). Otherwise they'd be stranding guests all over the property with extreme waits for bus service if the Skyliner is suddenly unusable for a couple of hours.

So it's not like they'd be saving a bunch of money on the bus fleet, which I think is a major concern. If they're going to have to keep the buses and drivers available anyways, why spend a bunch of additional money expanding the Skyliner?

 

[castlecake2.0]

Ver

I think this was part of the reason Martin said an expansion was unlikely. I could be making this up, but I believe he suggested the difficulties involved in connecting all the different resorts with turn stations etc. made the cost too high to be worth it.

A big part of the problem is that even if they did so, they'd still have to keep most or all the buses operational and keep drivers on standby for thunderstorms (or for when the Skyliner goes down for other reasons, which isn't common, but also isn't exceptionally rare). Otherwise they'd be stranding guests all over the property with extreme waits for bus service if the Skyliner is suddenly unusable for a couple of hours.

So it's not like they'd be saving a bunch of money on the bus fleet, which I think is a major concern. If they're going to have to keep the buses and drivers available anyways, why spend a bunch of additional money expanding the Skyliner?

Very good points. I think the skyliner is a great addition, but if they add any other non bus transit I want something that doesn’t need a rain contingency. A light rail down the middle of Buena Vista Blvd from Springs to DAK/All Stars would be nice someday

 

[UNCgolf]

Very good points. I think the skyliner is a great addition, but if they add any other non bus transit I want something that doesn’t need a rain contingency. A light rail down the middle of Buena Vista Blvd from Springs to DAK/All Stars would be nice someday

Imagine how great it would be if Disney had kept connecting the monorail to everything they built, or had built some other kind of mass transit system (light rail being an excellent choice) to get people around the property.

I'm still not sure they'd be able to eliminate the buses entirely because the number of visitors is so high -- having multiple options seems like a necessity -- but it would be so much better.

 

[MrHappy]

No it wasn’t at all…

That’s not happening. And Governor Tick and Dr. Evil, CEO won’t be around forever…or long, for that matter

From your keyboard….please

 

[GimpYancIent]

Ver

Very good points. I think the skyliner is a great addition, but if they add any other non bus transit I want something that doesn’t need a rain contingency. A light rail down the middle of Buena Vista Blvd from Springs to DAK/All Stars would be nice someday

Walt Disney was a fan of trains so a light rail line would be in keeping with the Disney concept.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this was part of the reason Martin said an expansion was unlikely. I could be making this up, but I believe he suggested the difficulties involved in connecting all the different resorts with turn stations etc. made the cost too high to be worth it.

A big part of the problem is that even if they did so, they'd still have to keep most or all the buses operational and keep drivers on standby for thunderstorms (or for when the Skyliner goes down for other reasons, which isn't common, but also isn't exceptionally rare). Otherwise they'd be stranding guests all over the property with extreme waits for bus service if the Skyliner is suddenly unusable for a couple of hours.

So it's not like they'd be saving a bunch of money on the bus fleet, which I think is a major concern. If they're going to have to keep the buses and drivers available anyways, why spend a bunch of additional money expanding the Skyliner?

I agree…the question I have is why start this ski lift nonsense in the first place then? It makes the overall transport system look even more disjointed than it did before.

Was it just to sell the bad idea caribbean DVC? Which frankly sucks and always was going to…

Ver

Very good points. I think the skyliner is a great addition, but if they add any other non bus transit I want something that doesn’t need a rain contingency. A light rail down the middle of Buena Vista Blvd from Springs to DAK/All Stars would be nice someday

They don’t seem to have the slightest desire to invest on anything close to that level. Don’t see that changing…ever.

 

[castlecake2.0]

I agree…the question I have is why start this ski lift nonsense in the first place then? It makes the overall transport system look even more disjointed than it did before.

Was it just to sell the bad idea caribbean DVC? Which frankly sucks and always was going to…

They don’t seem to have the slightest desire to invest on anything close to that level. Don’t see that changing…ever.

Which leads to the whole other issue of how they did this to themselves with their urban sprawl development of the property