News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I don’t think I’m successfully conveying what it is I’m getting at. I totally get what you’re saying and see no contradiction between disapproving of what somewhat says and decrying the suppression of that very same speech. Some of the posts here, however, seem to be saying something else, something tinged with an undertone of “Well, Disney asked for this.” That’s what I’m responding to.
See below
I think it's just schadenfreude. It's a head-versus-heart thing.

Somone might know in their heads that what DeSantis is doing is illegal, but emotionally their reaction still might be "lol get rekt Disney, I don't feel bad for you."
i think some people probably do feel Disney is wrong and so getting what they deserve but they know they will get killed for saying it. That’s also why there’s an almost desperate attempt to vilify RCID and claim it needed to go all along to somehow justify the actions.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
In my mind, TWDC sincerely thinks the Parental rights law is harmful. Instead of actually doing something quietly behind the scenes, they chose to just talk about it.

I could be wrong, maybe they ARE IN FACT RIGHT NOW working behind the scenes to reverse the law?

What is happening now is the perfect distraction while they get it done.
Agree or disagree but in their mind, removing donations and supporting groups that want to overturn it was doing something.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
I don't think they are mutually opposing positions. If someone doesn't agree with what Disney said, they can simultaneously disagree with the speech/make personal choices based on that speech, and recognize that the government has no role in punishing the speech they disagree with.
In the abstract, and in isolation, I would agree with this. However, context matters.

If this thread was titled something like:
"Reasons to boycott Disney!"
"Dangers to Disney stock price."
"Has Disney gone to woke?"
"Is Disney management competent?"

All very possible threads you could run into on this site. Discussion that Disney should or should not have made the comments it did would all fit in very nicely. Was it a good business choice, should they have made a different statement, should it have been private employee communication instead of public. Should consumers change Disney spending. Lots of discussion points about what actions Disney should or should not have taken.

However, none of that is the context of this thread.

This thread is clearly about changes to RCID. What is being changed. How, why, by whom, the impacts, reasons for the change, if it is legal, Disney's response to the changes. Everything in this thread is in the context of what is happening to RCID.

Within that context, as related to the changes to RCID, saying Disney shouldn't have said anything isn't in isolation. It is read by everyone as "Disney shouldn't have said anything and then nothing would have happened to RCID".

The context matters and that context is victim blaming and that if only they had kept their mouth shut nothing would have happened to RCID. There's going to be pushback against this opinion every time. No amount of "but I don't agree with the governor" is going to change that. As, in the context of what is going on with RCID, no amount of extra text is going to change how people read it, in this context. This thread, as has been pointed out many times, is supposed to be about what is going on related to RCID not about general political thoughts.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I will admit I do not understand. Are you saying TWDC is getting taxed twice?
For property tax, yes it's as simple as that.

Property is assessed at a certain value by the county assessor. Then each taxing authority gets to apply a tax rate to that value. The total of those components is your property tax bill. They literally are paying two property taxes on the same property. The county gets to set their tax rate, and RCID gets to set their own tax rate... both get collected.

That's just property tax... the power of the improvement district is it has authority to collect it's own taxes and other fees IN ADDITION to taxes the residents already own to the cities, counties, state, and fed.

Literally, that is what empowers it... the ability to collect taxes to fund it's activities and needs. The purpose of it is to create that authority that normally does not allow government to tax people differently.


How do you think RCID is funded for both it's administration and activities? It doesn't get money from the other governments, it's funded by it's own revenue generation by charging taxes and fees to it's constituents.

If RCID didn't exist, those taxes and fees would not exist. The work done by RCID would be handled by other agencies which have far greater populations under them.

If you have $100million bill that needs to be paid... who pays more? Situation 1 where you have 10 people to split the bill over? Or Situation 2 where you have 1 million people to split the bill over?
 

Notypeo

Member
Florida's Sunshine law prohibits 2 or more elected officials (legislators, board members, etc.) discussing matters privately that would become issues acted upon by the entire body in subsequent public meetings.
Yes, and if I’m correct there is also a prohibition on circumventing this restriction through a “conduit.”
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
In the abstract, and in isolation, I would agree with this. However, context matters.

If this thread was titled something like:
"Reasons to boycott Disney!"
"Dangers to Disney stock price."
"Has Disney gone to woke?"
"Is Disney management competent?"

All very possible threads you could run into on this site. Discussion that Disney should or should not have made the comments it did would all fit in very nicely. Was it a good business choice, should they have made a different statement, should it have been private employee communication instead of public. Should consumers change Disney spending. Lots of discussion points about what actions Disney should or should not have taken.

However, none of that is the context of this thread.

This thread is clearly about changes to RCID. What is being changed. How, why, by whom, the impacts, reasons for the change, if it is legal, Disney's response to the changes. Everything in this thread is in the context of what is happening to RCID.

Within that context, as related to the changes to RCID, saying Disney shouldn't have said anything isn't in isolation. It is read by everyone as "Disney shouldn't have said anything and then nothing would have happened to RCID".

The context matters and that context is victim blaming and that if only they had kept their mouth shut nothing would have happened to RCID. There's going to be pushback against this opinion every time. No amount of "but I don't agree with the governor" is going to change that. As, in the context of what is going on with RCID, no amount of extra text is going to change how people read it, in this context. This thread, as has been pointed out many times, is supposed to be about what is going on related to RCID not about general political thoughts.

Whether we agree or disagree with the governor's actions, Disney's statement, HB 1557 or anything else on the topic isn't really the important thing.

It's that the state's actions are prohibited by both the US and state constitutions. And there's sufficient case law, especially with regards to the Contracts Clause - which language also exists in the state constitution - to support that prohibition.

My person opinion? The state errored filing in state court. Now Florida Supreme Court decisions on contracts come into play. And they don't favor the government. Furthermore, the state sued in the 9th judicial district. The jury pool will be drawn from Orange and Osceola counties.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
I saw something that Jim Korkis wrote last year when all this started.

Unlike other bills during a regular session, these bills were not sent to a committee for discussion and examination of possible consequences. There was no economic study done on the ramifications of dissolving the district. There was no consultation with the counties involved or any open forum for citizens to voice their opinions.

Can anyone confirm this has been the case for all of the bills that passed?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I saw something that Jim Korkis wrote last year when all this started.



Can anyone confirm this has been the case for all of the bills that passed?

This is why they used special sessions of the legislature to push the main acts through. Accelerated schedules with less obligations. The points about econmic studies, consultation with the counties, etc are the choices the GOP made to ram the two bills through. Just pass 'em... don't question them.

The lack of consultation (so they could surprise Disney) is a large portion of why their first bill couldn't get the job done on it's own and they had to go back and redo their attempt to sabotage Disney.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I think it's just schadenfreude. It's a head-versus-heart thing.

Somone might know in their heads that what DeSantis is doing is illegal, but emotionally their reaction still might be "lol get rekt Disney, I don't feel bad for you."
I think this accurately characterises what it is that’s bothering me. Criticisms of DeSantis ring hollow coming from those who feel such barely disguised glee at the idea of Disney getting its comeuppance.
 

Fordlover

Active Member
The company taking a political position has nothing to do with the fiduciary duties of the shareholders. You don’t like the position they took so you are implying it hurt business. Someone else who likes the position they took may have felt that not speaking out would have hurt business. Management of the company has to decide how to run the company. You may not like their decisions but that doesn’t mean they breached their fiduciary duties. People act like the company stopped doing business to focus on this situation but that’s the furthest thing from the truth.
Fundamentally speaking, anytime you alienate even a small portion of your customers, it is bad for the bottom line. I do not reside in Florida, so I have absolutely no skin in the game and I don't get a vote. But I am a Disney shareholder. I have no ability to exert any pressure on DeSantis as he doesn't represent me.
 

Notypeo

Member
Explain what you mean by a "conduit"?
I can’t say I’m entirely sure. My sense is that it’s a third party who serves as a go-between between board members. So, for instance, if Person A is on a board and wants to tell Person B her position on an upcoming issue without going public, Person A might have Person C — who’s not on the board — send the message to Person B. My sense is that, in that case, Person C is being a conduit.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
I saw something that Jim Korkis wrote last year when all this started.



Can anyone confirm this has been the case for all of the bills that passed?

The 3 analyses done by staff with the respective committees for HB 9B stated that the district would continue to have the power to assess and collect ad valorem taxes, issue bonds that would be tax exempt and that said taxes & revenues collected must be for the benefit of property owners in the district. So basically restating what's in the original Charter.

No private sector impact (leasees in DS and DVC members might disagree) and only government impact would be costs related hiring of staff, specified reporting requirements and implementating district name change.

Edit: I hate my phone's autocorrect, lol.
 
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LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
I can’t say I’m entirely sure. My sense is that it’s a third party who serves as a go-between between board members. So, for instance, if Person A is on a board and wants to tell Person B her position on an upcoming issue without going public, Person A might have Person C — who’s not on the board — send the message to Person B. My sense is that, in that case, Person C is being a conduit.

Which COULD be a violation, depending on who Person C is.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Fundamentally speaking, anytime you alienate even a small portion of your customers, it is bad for the bottom line. I do not reside in Florida, so I have absolutely no skin in the game and I don't get a vote. But I am a Disney shareholder. I have no ability to exert any pressure on DeSantis as he doesn't represent me.
For instance, if Disney had come out and said they were banning anyone over the age of 60 from the parks or state that homosexuals were wrong, I'd be just as irritated with the company.

The Age Discrimination Act of 1975 would prohibit Disney from banning anyone over the age of 60 from the parks if it received any federal funds. I believe Title 5 of the Civil Rights Act also prohibits discrimination on the basis of age.
 

afterabme

Active Member
Interesting Article from Puck: https://puck.news/iger-vs-desantis-the-next-steps/?_cio_id=f6c6060ec7a601e8f71a&utm_campaign=The+Daily+Courant+-+SUBSCRIBERS+(5/2/23)&utm_content=The+Daily+Courant+-+SUBSCRIBERS+(5/2/23)&utm_medium=email_action&utm_source=customer.io

And for those that don't have a subscription:

Iger vs. DeSantis: The Next Steps​

Last week, Disney sued Ron DeSantis over control of some very valuable swampland. The decision to go to court was predictable, of course: C.E.O. Bob Iger wants wide discretion on land use around Disney World, which covers some 43 square miles of Central Florida. And DeSantis, who says he doesn’t believe in “old-guard corporate Republicanism,” won’t stop yapping about “woke ideology.” Now comes a case over the voiding of Disney’s developmental contracts—a reflection, the company claims, of how DeSantis is waging a “relentless campaign to weaponize government power against Disney in retaliation for expressing a political viewpoint unpopular with certain State officials.” (Here’s the complaint.)

One thing about Disney’s legal action that has escaped commentary—even though it’s likely to become the center of attention—is how O’Melveny litigation superstar Daniel Petrocelli has managed to file this case in federal court. Disney’s move makes tactical sense. The company, after all, surely wanted to bypass DeSantis-appointed judges, eventually at Florida’s Supreme Court. But can it?

Here’s where the 11th Amendment may come up. This constitutional addendum restricts the ability of citizens to bring suits against states in federal court. This bar, enacted at a time when states had debt problems and sovereignty was a paramount concern, can be puzzling. Four years ago, for instance, the Supreme Court wrestled with the hard-to-fathom yet evidently correct notion that states have immunity for their intellectual property thievery. “One might think that Walt Disney Pictures could sue a state for hosting an unlicensed screening of the studio’s blockbuster film Pirates of the Caribbean (or any of its many sequels),” wrote now retired Supreme Court justice Stephen Breyer, marveling at the unanimous ruling by his colleagues. “Yet the court holds otherwise.”



Of course, the 11th Amendment isn’t impenetrable. There are ways around it, and Disney is steering its case towards the most legally famous (and most controversial) path by citing the Ex Parte Young doctrine, which dates back to a 1908 case that held that state officials could be sued in federal court to prevent them from enforcing unconstitutional laws. Notably, Disney isn’t shooting for damages in its power battle with DeSantis. That would be a sure loser under sovereign immunity precedent. Instead, the corporation aims for declaratory and injunctive relief to ensure that local officials honor previously recognized contracts.

DeSantis will probably respond that this stretches the Ex Parte Young doctrine beyond what’s permissible. He’ll likely argue that land use is a local issue—and that despite the fact that the governor now appoints members to the oversight board, he has no real enforcement authority over these contracts. If that’s the DeSantis administration’s initial move to beat a First Amendment claim in federal court (while pushing a parallel suit in state court), it won’t be the first time. In fact, that’s pretty similar to what DeSantis tried in Dream Defenders, a 2021 case that dealt with a DeSantis-era anti-rioting law that came in the wake of Black Lives Matter protests. There, U.S. District Court Judge Mark Walker rejected the governor’s challenge to being hauled into federal court, pointing out that DeSantis has the authority to call the state militia to respond to a “riot” and had actually done so. Walker wrote, “Does Governor DeSantis really contend that no plaintiff in any case could ever have standing to sue him?”

Disney v. DeSantis, of course, has just been assigned to the very same Judge Walker, who also once called the Stop WOKE Act “positively dystopian.” (By filing in Tallahassee, Disney had a 35 percent chance at landing its case with Walker, the same probability of being stuck with Trump appointee Allen Winsor. Some magical fairy dust, I guess.)

Still, don’t shrug off this sovereign immunity issue just because of the judge. Anyone inclined to do so would be well-advised to heed DeSantis’s battle with Andrew Warren, the Tampa-area district attorney whom the governor suspended, ostensibly for pledging not to prosecute certain low-level offenses. Warren went to federal court, claiming, like Disney, that the governor retaliated against him for speaking up on social issues (in his case, on abortion and transgender issues). In January, U.S. District Court Judge Robert Hinkle—a Clinton appointee—agreed that DeSantis was wrong to oust Warren yet nevertheless ruled the 11th Amendment tied his hands. (Incidentally, Warren is scheduled to argue his appeal tomorrow at the 11th Circuit.)

If this situation starts going badly for Disney, the company may lean on its alternative claim that the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment prevents citizens from being deprived of property without just compensation. The Supreme Court recently held that a Takings Clause claim can be brought against a local government in federal court so it’s not a surprise to see Disney trot it out as a secondary legal theory in its complaint. Although, on further thought, is Disney really suggesting that DeSantis stole Disney World? Now that’d be some villainy in the Magic Kingdom.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Does anyone remember the number of the bill that came out of the 1st special session that abolished RCID effective June 2023.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
Query - Are Disney and Desantis friends?
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