News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Sir_Cliff]

Hohoho, you obviously havent been watching that Parq for a while. you think WDW has maintenance issues?

I was there this morning. When were you last at Disneyland Paris?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was there this morning. When were you last at Disneyland Paris?

Wdw customers are under the impression that wdw is not the least well maintained park complex lb for lb at present

…they are wrong

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The problem for Disney is RCID allowed them to operate in a certain way that was good for business and propped up their whole company at times.

Now they are subject to meddling. And if that was the deal…they would have NEVER bought the land in the first place

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Wdw customers are under the impression that wdw is not the least well maintained park complex lb for lb at present

…they are wrong

Yes, there was a time Disneyland Paris was in a pretty rough state for all the reasons I think everyone knows. The difference between DLP and WDW is that they spent a lot of money restoring their parks once the debt monkey was finally off their backs and have managed to keep the maintenance up. WDW just seems to run things into the ground and then every 20 years or so do a major refurb.

There really is no comparison between the condition of the rides right now at Paris versus Florida. Nothing I went on seemed rough around the edges.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It could be that basically nothing is going to change in practical terms.

Even if that were the case, the ability to threaten change remains. That’s the problem, that the district can apply pressure regarding anything in the future. There’s no mechanism to uphold any of these hypothetical promises.

 

[MrPromey]

The real problem here isn’t the current clown show…that will pass

The problem for Disney is RCID allowed them to operate in a certain way that was good for business and propped up their whole company at times.

Now they are subject to meddling. And if that was the deal…they would have NEVER bought the land in the first place

But they did buy the land and here they are and what came down the pike in practical terms ended up being a lot less dramatic than the fire and brimstone that was being threatened from Tallahassee.

Sure, it's an annoyance going forward but I think it's a little like this:

 

[MrPromey]

Even if that were the case, the ability to threaten change remains. That’s the problem, that the district can apply pressure regarding anything in the future. There’s no mechanism to uphold any of these hypothetical promises.

The ability to threaten change was never going away, regardless of the outcome of this.

They were going to be getting the short end of the stick, regardless. The only question was, how short they wanted to let that end become.

Please refer to my robot chicken reference above. :/

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But they did buy the land and here they are and what came down the pike in practical terms ended up being a lot less dramatic than the fire and brimstone that was being threatened from Tallahassee.

Sure, it's an annoyance going forward but I think it's a little like this:

Did you see the board?

There are literally morons now in control of their planning/zoning

That may prove to be the worst case possible

 

[lazyboy97o]

The ability to threaten change was never going away, regardless of the outcome of this.

They were going to be getting the short end of the stick, regardless. The only question was, how short they wanted to let that end become.

Please refer to my robot chicken reference above. :/

Disney could absolutely challenge and win. That’s not getting the short end of the stick. Just fighting would make them less of a target going forward because it’s not a win. Making a win more likely only invites further aggression because the root issue is never resolved and cannot be resolved.

 

[mikejs78]

I'm in almost the same boat, except I naturally now look even further East to Tokyo Disneyland to get my Disney Resort fix. I've lost track of how many times I cancelled and re-planned that last trip to Tokyo for 2020, but it's back on my radar again for later this year or Spring '24.

The only difference is the Disney Look is still in total control at Tokyo and the CM's there always behave as good as they look!

As for Florida, I found this last paragraph in an otherwise slanted AP article released today to have a refreshingly good point about RCID...

"The creation of the self-governing district was instrumental in Disney's decision to build near Orlando in the 1960s. The company had told the state it planned to build a futuristic city that would include a transit system and urban planning innovations, so the company needed autonomy in building and deciding how to use the land. The futuristic city never materialized and instead morphed into a second theme park that opened in 1982." -Associated Press, February 27th, 2023

Show me where, in the Reedy Creek Act where it states the reasons for creating the district, that it mentions the building of a city. No

It's a very valid point, one that seems to have been lost in many discussions, about why the RCID was created in the first place and why it was given the unusual autonomy that it was in 1966.

I found it to be a good point that seems to have been lost lately: The reasons why RCID was created in 1966 no longer exist, and never will exist.

RCID was not created in 1966. And, from the charter, was created to promote tourism. I'd say that still exists.

If I were Universal or Sea World, I wouldn't want it to be known that Disney World has stricter government safety regulations than I have at my parks up the road.

If safety regulations do change for WDW under this new government setup, it will be interesting to see how the other theme park operators respond to that.

If the changes to RCID just come down to stuff like county tax rates and costs of ambulance services or fire departments, then I imagine Universal will not bother to get involved.

This kind of shows you really don't know what you are talking about. The other theme park regulators aren't subject to the more stringent RCID safety regulations today.

As for taxation and county control of WDW property? I would imagine the Orlando counties are salivating over that.

Again, this shows you know very little about this whole situation. As has been pointed out here repeatedly, Disney already pays taxes to Orange and Osceola counties, the maximum allowed under the state Constitution. If the district had gone away completely, the counties would have been responsible for Reedy Creek's debt without an ounce of additional revenue from Disney.

Under the FL constitution, special districts are allowed to tax beyond the constitutional limits, which is what Reedy Creek did, but only to the extent that the voters of the district (e.g. Disney) approve.

 

[networkpro]

After Walt died, there was no E.P.C.O.T, they shifted to a pure amusement park district so it really was time for it to go as there were no real residents, just employees in trailer parks for Lake Buena Vista (29 people) and Bay Lake (24 people).

 

[TP2000]

Show me where, in the Reedy Creek Act where it states the reasons for creating the district, that it mentions the building of a city. No



RCID was not created in 1966. And, from the charter, was created to promote tourism. I'd say that still exists.



This kind of shows you really don't know what you are talking about. The other theme park regulators aren't subject to the more stringent RCID safety regulations today.


Again, this shows you know very little about this whole situation. As has been pointed out here repeatedly, Disney already pays taxes to Orange and Osceola counties, the maximum allowed under the state Constitution. If the district had gone away completely, the counties would have been responsible for Reedy Creek's debt without an ounce of additional revenue from Disney.

Under the FL constitution, special districts are allowed to tax beyond the constitutional limits, which is what Reedy Creek did, but only to the extent that the voters of the district (e.g. Disney) approve.

Oh, dear. I am just a Disneyland nerd sitting in my den chatting on forums. I am not an expert on the RCID structure or of land use laws in Florida, and I would never profess to be.

What I know about WDW and the RCID I learned over the decades from that fabulous EPCOT '66 video Walt did two months before he died, to asides in old Birnbaum's Official Guides from the 1980's and 90's, to informed and interesting chatter here on the boards. My basic knowledge of RCID is summed up thusly;

In the mid 1960's Walt Disney wanted to build a Community of Tomorrow in Florida, and he used a Disneyland clone as the "weenie" to get both the Florida government and the private companies to help him do it. He got Florida to give his company unusual autonomy over the vast swath of swampland he bought, with the promise that in addition to the new Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow he would build a Disneyland that would rake in tourists and taxes for the state. The RCID was formed and was the governing body for much of WDW's operation for 50 years. Then Bob Chapek and Ron DeSantis got in a messy fight and Governor DeSantis took the RCID away from Disney. End of story, but start of a new chapter!

I'm going to stick to that basic summary of the plot here, because I honestly am not interested enough to study land use laws or taxation regulations on the books in Tallahassee.

 

[TP2000]

Now I'm confused. What are we upset about here again?

RCID still basically exists, but it's been renamed. And it's decision makers are no longer appointed by Disney, but appointed by Florida's elected officials. But the district still exists. And Orange and Osceola counties can still collect taxes on WDW. And Florida is still not going to start regulating theme parks like California does. And Starbucks can even serve cancer coffee in Florida without warning signage. (Mocha Frappuccino with an extra shot of Acrylamide for me, please!)

So, if that's all the case, what's the big deal?

 

[MrPromey]

Did you see the board?

There are literally morons now in control of their planning/zoning

That may prove to be the worst case possible

Not like Disney had anything new on the horizon, anyway.

I'm sure it's an added headache but I don't think this will be a major show-stopper.

Could be wrong.

Hope I'm not.

Regardless, like everything we're getting from state government at the moment this move appears more intended for show than anything else.

Honestly, I'm just like an elementary school student doing duck-and-cover at this point. If the big one hits, that desk isn't going to save me but I still need some hope to cling to.

 

[Tha Realest]

A year ago many on here assured us this would never come about. That Florida and DeSantis would be suicidal to do it. He and all those who voted for it were reeected by wide margins.

Months later, when the initial bill passed, many of those same people assured that this was a slam dunk lawsuit Disney would surely win. They have yet to bring a lawsuit.

Once the bill changing RCID passed, Disney relented and said they would operate within the new framework. Again, many of those same people applauded Disney for not giving DeSantis a “win” or any publicity out of this.

Well, here’s a smattering of the headlines today, reaching just about every local and national news station in the country, from across the political spectrum:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Yes, there was a time Disneyland Paris was in a pretty rough state for all the reasons I think everyone knows. The difference between DLP and WDW is that they spent a lot of money restoring their parks once the debt monkey was finally off their backs and have managed to keep the maintenance up. WDW just seems to run things into the ground and then every 20 years or so do a major refurb.

There really is no comparison between the condition of the rides right now at Paris versus Florida. Nothing I went on seemed rough around the edges.

I’ll be there again in June. Looking very forward to it. Was in Anaheim in October.

No WDW trips on the horizon.

 

[Crunchie9]

I can’t believe I’m not banned from this thread!

 

[BuddyThomas]

I can’t believe I’m not banned from this thread!

Why? What did you do?

 

[BuddyThomas]

A government punishing a company for exercising its right to free speech. I’m not sure what you’re confused about given how many times it’s been stated.

If you used the word Burbank in your response, he would be less confused.

 

[TP2000]

I've done a little research into what really changes with this. In short, it's not much.

It seems to boil down to a few main things, in addition to removing the ability of RCID to build a commercial airport or a nuclear power plant, which was leftover from the 1967 agreement when they thought they were going to actually build EPCOT instead of a new Marvel roller coaster.

Correct me if I'm missing anything, but it seems the changes to RCID come down to these main bullet points, in no particular order:

• Renaming it from RCID to CFTOD.
• Board of Supervisors in charge of district, appointed by Governor and State Senate, with "No one who has worked for a theme park complex within three years will be permitted to serve, nor are landowners in the district permitted to serve." Board members will now be unpaid positions, with no perks given to them from Disney like comp tickets and DVC discounts.
• Current taxes, bonds and debts all remain the same as RCID and all are still Disney's responsibility to pay.
• New bylaws remove a lot of outdated 1960's terminology and phrasing, like references to "closed-circuit television".

What am I missing here? What's the big deal?

Is all this excitement because DeSantis ended a sweetheart land/tax deal for Disney and now DeSantis and the current Senate gets to choose the first Board of Supervisors, and future unknown Florida Governors and Senators will be choosing future Board members?