News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Again though, the Florida Constitution allows the legislator to create, abolish or modify counties by (it appears) law:

(a) POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS. The state shall be divided by law into political subdivisions called counties. Counties may be created, abolished or changed by law, with provision for payment or apportionment of the public debt.​

There's nothing in this about needing landowners approval to do this.

Regarding commissioners elected by landowners, my interpretation (I could be wrong) is that these apply to chartered counties:

(c) GOVERNMENT. Pursuant to general or special law, a county government may be established by charter which shall be adopted, amended or repealed only upon vote of the electors of the county in a special election called for that purpose.​
(d) COUNTY OFFICERS. There shall be elected by the electors of each county, for terms of four years, a sheriff, a tax collector, a property appraiser, a supervisor of elections, and a clerk of the circuit court. Unless otherwise provided by special law approved by vote of the electors or pursuant to Article V, section 16, the clerk of the circuit court shall be ex officio clerk of the board of county commissioners, auditor, recorder and custodian of all county funds. Notwithstanding subsection 6(e) of this article, a county charter may not abolish the office of a sheriff, a tax collector, a property appraiser, a supervisor of elections, or a clerk of the circuit court; transfer the duties of those officers to another officer or office; change the length of the four-year term of office; or establish any manner of selection other than by election by the electors of the county.​
(e) COMMISSIONERS. Except when otherwise provided by county charter, the governing body of each county shall be a board of county commissioners composed of five or seven members serving staggered terms of four years. After each decennial census the board of county commissioners shall divide the county into districts of contiguous territory as nearly equal in population as practicable. One commissioner residing in each district shall be elected as provided by law.​

But for unchartered counties:

(f) NON-CHARTER GOVERNMENT. Counties not operating under county charters shall have such power of self-government as is provided by general or special law. The board of county commissioners of a county not operating under a charter may enact, in a manner prescribed by general law, county ordinances not inconsistent with general or special law, but an ordinance in conflict with a municipal ordinance shall not be effective within the municipality to the extent of such conflict.​

My interpretation (and I hope I'm wrong) is that non-chartered counties only have the powers that the legislature gives them.

The following table is quoted from a paper written by Aubrey Jewett (who I think is a Poly Sci Associate Professor at UCF):

View attachment 639903
This still makes no sense to me. So essentially what you are saying is the legislature can at their whim dissolve any county in the state. They then have the authority to create a new non-chartered county that covers all or a portion of the land in the dissolved county and that non-chartered county has no right to self government. So again, why not dissolve Miami-Dade or Orange counties themselves and then reform them as non-chartered counties where the Governor has total control? That can’t be legal. My original question still stands. Even if they did this to the RCID land they would have to carve that land out of Orange and Osceola Counties and put it into a new non-cbartered county which has a major impact to the tax base, especially Orange County. What happens to Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista? These are incorporated cities. Can they just be removed from one county and put into a new non-charter one?

Question on RCID directly: how will they pay off the utility bonds without being able to levy a utility tax? Seems problematic.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I have read Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens before.

In brief, Sears entered into a contract with Forbes/Cohen Florida Properties to sublease mall space. That contract allowed Sears to further sublease that space. Without informing Sears, Forbes/Cohen met with the City of Palm Beach Gardens to enact a resolution preventing Sears from subleasing, even though it was in Sears' contract. The Florida Supreme Court ruled for Sears.

As noted in Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens:

The Florida Constitution offers greater protection for the rights derived from the Contract Clause than the United States Constitution. See Sarasota Cty. v. Andrews, 573 So. 2d 113, 115 (Fla. 2d DCA 1991) (citing Pomponio v. Claridge of Pompano Condo., Inc., 378 So. 2d 774, 780 (Fla. 1979)); James W. Ely, Jr., The Contract Clause: A Constitutional History 253 (2016) (“[T]he Florida Supreme Court has signaled its willingness to protect contracts more fully than the federal courts.”). Thus, the Florida Supreme Court has recognized that it is “not bound to accept as controlling the United States Supreme Court’s interpretation of a parallel provision of the federal constitution.” Pomponio, 378 So. 2d at 779.​
“To impair a preexisting contract, a law must ‘have the effect of rewriting antecedent contracts’ in a manner that ‘chang[es] the substantive rights of the parties to existing contracts.’” Searcy, Denney, Scarola, Barnhart & Shipley, etc. v. State, 209 So. 3d 1181, 1191 (Fla. 2017) (citation omitted). “Total destruction of contractual expectations is not necessary for a finding of substantial impairment.” U.S. Fid. & Guar. Co. v. Dep’t of Ins., 453 So. 2d 1355, 1360 (Fla. 1984). Rather, impairment is defined as “to make worse; to diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength; to lessen in power; to weaken.” Pomponio, 378 So. 2d at 781 n.41 (citation omitted); Pudlit 2 Joint Venture, LLP v. Westwood Gardens Homeowners ***’n, 169 So. 3d 145, 150 (Fla. 4th DCA 2015).​
Any legislative action which diminishes the value of a contract is repugnant to and inhibited by the Constitution.” In re Advisory Opinion, 509 So. 2d at 314. For example, “[a] statute which retroactively turns otherwise profitable contracts into losing propositions is clearly such a prohibited enactment.” Id. at 314-15. Indeed, it is a “well-accepted principle that virtually no degree of contract impairment is tolerable.” Pudlit, 169 So. 3d at 150 (quoting Coral Lakes Cmty. ***’n v. Busey Bank, N.A., 30 So. 3d 579, 584 (Fla. 2d DCA 2010)); see also Citrus Mem’l Health Found., Inc. v. Citrus Cty. Hosp. Bd., 108 So. 3d 675, 677 (Fla. 1st DCA 2013) (“[A]ny legislation that detracts from the value of a contract is subject to the constitutional proscription . . . .”).​

And it ends with:

We conclude that the City unconstitutionally impaired Sears’s right to contract and deprived Sears of its rights to substantive due process. Because the City’s Resolution deprived Sears of substantive due process, Sears is also owed attorney’s fees under 42 U.S.C. sections 1983 and 1988. Finally, we conclude that the trial court erred in not granting declaratory relief in Sears’s favor, and we specifically find that Sears has a right to sublease, pursuant to the 1987 lease agreement.​

To understand what this means, you have consider the history of Supreme Court rulings on contracts.

Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy is considered a landmark ruling for the Contracts Clause. In it, the Supreme Court held that contracts must not be impaired. Still, it also stated:

It is competent for the States to change the form of the remedy, or to modify it otherwise, as they may see fit, provided no substantial right secured by the contract is thereby impaired.​

In other words, Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy held that States can change contracts as long as these changes are not "substantial".

Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy was pretty much the standard applied until Home Building & Loan Assn. v. Blaisdell was decided in 1934.

What Blaisdell did was to allow States to impair contracts as long as these impairments were justified by "emergency" circumstances. In this particular case, the Supreme Court held that it was OK for the State of Minnesota to alter the terms of contracts in order to reduce the number of foreclosures caused by the Great Depression. (The Great Depression being the emergency.)

Blaisdell has been widely criticized as it allows the government to violate the Contracts Clause of the U.S. Constitution. Since Blaisdell was decided in 1934, there have been other cases that are viewed as further weakening the Contracts Clause.

Note that Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens includes:

impairment is defined as “to make worse; to diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength; to lessen in power; to weaken.”

Also note the frequent use of the word "substantial" (or its derivatives) in Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens.

The issue here (IMO) is one of substantial impairment.

So when you quote this paragraph from Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens:

The conclusion, however, that “‘virtually’ no impairment is tolerable necessarily implies that some impairment is tolerable,” though not as much impairment as would be “acceptable under traditional federal contract clause analysis.” Pomponio, 378 So. 2d at 780. “Some impairment” may be “tolerable” where the governmental actor can demonstrate a “significant and legitimate public purpose behind the regulation.” Searcy, 209 So. 3d at 1192 (quoting Energy Reserves Grp., Inc. v. Kan. Power & Light Co., 459 U.S. 400, 411 (1983)).​

Recalling that the U.S. Supreme Court is the ultimate judge of what the Contracts Clause in the U.S. Constitution means, I interpret this as a rejection within Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens of the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Contracts Clause as specified in Blaisdell and all court rulings that have been based on Blaisdell since then. The Florida Supreme Court has essentially said that no impairment is allowed, where:

impairment is defined as “to make worse; to diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength; to lessen in power; to weaken.”

Again, this goes back to my previous point. What does it mean to impair a contract? If all bondholders are fully paid according to the terms of their bonds, regardless of who is paying them, is this a substantial impairment? Are these contracts "made worse" or "weakened"? (This is a rhetorical question. I honestly don't know how this will be interpreted legally.)

I believe that, if it makes it that far, this will come down to a ruling by the Florida Supreme Court based on this being a deprivation of "substantive due process" or "substantial impairment".

I hope this makes sense. :)
No, it doesn’t make sense because you are still ignoring that Florida has its own, stricter interpretation and precedent. The Florida state constitution has its own contract clause, so no, precedent does not default to the lesser federal standard. The Florida standard isn’t just impairment, it’s significant public purpose.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
From article VIII section 1e of the FL state constitution it spells out that county commissioners are elected even in a non-charted county. There’s nothing that says the Governor can appoint his own commissioners as he decides. I can’t get the words to copy for some reason but here’s a screen shot of the section:
19080663-D0B8-457F-952F-6987B57A73FC.png

I also believe 1c allows for a county to adopt a charter with a vote of the electors so even if the Government dissolved RCID and reformed it as a non-chartered county the electors of the county could then adopt a charter.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Again though, the Florida Constitution allows the legislator to create, abolish or modify counties by (it appears) law:

(a) POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS. The state shall be divided by law into political subdivisions called counties. Counties may be created, abolished or changed by law, with provision for payment or apportionment of the public debt.​

There's nothing in this about needing landowners approval to do this.

Regarding commissioners elected by landowners, my interpretation (I could be wrong) is that these apply to chartered counties:

(c) GOVERNMENT. Pursuant to general or special law, a county government may be established by charter which shall be adopted, amended or repealed only upon vote of the electors of the county in a special election called for that purpose.​
(d) COUNTY OFFICERS. There shall be elected by the electors of each county, for terms of four years, a sheriff, a tax collector, a property appraiser, a supervisor of elections, and a clerk of the circuit court. Unless otherwise provided by special law approved by vote of the electors or pursuant to Article V, section 16, the clerk of the circuit court shall be ex officio clerk of the board of county commissioners, auditor, recorder and custodian of all county funds. Notwithstanding subsection 6(e) of this article, a county charter may not abolish the office of a sheriff, a tax collector, a property appraiser, a supervisor of elections, or a clerk of the circuit court; transfer the duties of those officers to another officer or office; change the length of the four-year term of office; or establish any manner of selection other than by election by the electors of the county.​
(e) COMMISSIONERS. Except when otherwise provided by county charter, the governing body of each county shall be a board of county commissioners composed of five or seven members serving staggered terms of four years. After each decennial census the board of county commissioners shall divide the county into districts of contiguous territory as nearly equal in population as practicable. One commissioner residing in each district shall be elected as provided by law.​

But for unchartered counties:

(f) NON-CHARTER GOVERNMENT. Counties not operating under county charters shall have such power of self-government as is provided by general or special law. The board of county commissioners of a county not operating under a charter may enact, in a manner prescribed by general law, county ordinances not inconsistent with general or special law, but an ordinance in conflict with a municipal ordinance shall not be effective within the municipality to the extent of such conflict.​

My interpretation (and I hope I'm wrong) is that non-chartered counties only have the powers that the legislature gives them.

The following table is quoted from a paper written by Aubrey Jewett (who I think is a Poly Sci Associate Professor at UCF):

View attachment 639903
The Florida Constitution does not grant the state the power to operate state run counties. Even non-chartered counties are self-governed, meaning the residents of this new county would still get a vote. The state would have to create some sort of residential enclave in this new county where the governor appoints the residents.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The Florida Constitution does not grant the state the power to operate state run counties. Even non-chartered counties are self-governed, meaning the residents of this new county would still get a vote. The state would have to create some sort of residential enclave in this new county where the governor appoints the residents.
Yes, this is why I kept saying it makes no sense to me. There are other unchartered counties in FL so it would not be likely that the Governor could just remove their elected county commissioners and put his own people in place. Unchartered counties have less freedom to govern themselves as they see fit, but they are still governed by elected officials which again, defeats the whole plan of commissioners who don’t answer to the landowners.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It took me a little while to get what this was saying but now it makes sense. On the first 2 bullet points what the author is saying is a chartered county has the structure of the county government set by the charter itself and as long as the charter doesn’t conflict with the state constitution it is enforceable. The first 2 bullet points on the unchartered side say that an unchartered county must follow the structure specified in the state constitution or state statutes and that limits their ability to self govern as they see fit. That is not saying the unchartered counties don’t have elected officials just that their government structure is limited but that structure applies to all unchartered counties. So the legislature cannot pass legislation limiting just one newly formed unchartered county. Any change to state statute would apply to all unchartered counties which are a lot of counties in FL. So there’s no way to seize control of just that one county.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So in order to create a state run county, it seems the following would have to happen.
  1. State acquires land adjacent to the Reedy Creek Improvement District.
  2. State develops some form of housing on this property and restricts residency to those appointed by the governor.
  3. New residents, who have to outnumber those already living in the District, live in new housing long enough to establish residency.
  4. New county is created encompassing Reedy Creek Improvement District and this housing enclave.
  5. New state approved residents would now act similar to Disney approved residents.
This though would require the counties to play along and approve this new housing, and Disney to be prevented from adding more residents.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
So in order to create a state run county, it seems the following would have to happen.
  1. State acquires land adjacent to the Reedy Creek Improvement District.
  2. State develops some form of housing on this property and restricts residency to those appointed by the governor.
  3. New residents, who have to outnumber those already living in the District, live in new housing long enough to establish residency.
  4. New county is created encompassing Reedy Creek Improvement District and this housing enclave.
  5. New state approved residents would now act similar to Disney approved residents.
This though would require the counties to play along and approve this new housing, and Disney to be prevented from adding more residents.
Seems like a lot of hoops to jump through. In the meantime RCID continues as is? They would have to amend the extension to a later date maybe. It would take years to buy land, build housing and move people in. I guess they could roll in modular homes but it still seems like a long timeline to achieve it, especially if you don’t want to tip your hand as to the plan before November.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Not just a lot. The majority of counties in Florida are unchartered.
Yeah, I learned that from reading the attachment from @ParentsOf4 post. I was not aware of that fact prior, but it kinda makes sense since FL has a handful of urban centers and a lot of rural counties that probably have no need for an expensive and overly bureaucratic government. It would be unlikely that the legislature would pass a bill allowing the removal and replacement of the elected officials from all unchartered counties since many of the representatives are from unchartered counties. It would be DOA no matter how much DeSantis may want it.
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
It’s behind a paywall

Here you go (I think this is the same thing Len posted about this morning) -

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis caused heads to spin on May 16 when he hinted that the state could be the new overseer of Walt Disney World's (NYSE: DIS) Reedy Creek Improvement District in Orlando.

Specifically, experts are curious how the state could make such moves and what kind of fallout there may be, as the Reedy Creek Improvement District area also consists of two municipalities in Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, where its largest 'resident' is Disney.

DeSantis was clear on his stance of not allowing local governments — Orange and Osceola counties — to take over control. "More likely, the state will simply assume control and make sure that we're able to impose the law and make sure we're collecting the taxes ... There's a whole bunch of different things that we will be able to do. I'd much rather have the state leading that effort than potentially having local governments … I'm worried that they would use that as a pretext to raise taxes on people when that's what they would want to do anyways, and then try to blame Reedy Creek. We’re not going to give them that opportunity," DeSantis said, during an event at Seminole State College while making an announcement regarding nursing education.

State officials told Orlando Business Journal, via a May 16 email, that the governor's statements at the event were his latest on the topic. Also, both Orange and Osceola counties said they were monitoring the situation.

But DeSantis' latest stance makes little sense, said Disney experts with knowledge of government workings.

"The state of Florida can't simply force a hostile takeover of two Florida cities chartered under Florida law," said Chad Emerson, a Disney expert who authored the book, Project Future: The Inside Story Behind the Creation of Disney World.

"Both of these local municipal governments are protected under Florida law. There is no legal or regulatory path for the Florida state Legislature to accomplish what they are seeking to do. Simply put, the Florida Constitution protects private businesses from big government intervention like this," he told OBJ.

One thing that 's guaranteed is that whatever DeSantis and the state of Florida come up with, it'll be distinct, said Aubrey Jewett, associate professor and assistant school director at the University of Central Florida's School of Politics, Security and International Affairs.

"We don't know for sure what the state will come up with, but it is probably safe to say that it will be unique since Reedy Creek was unique, and dissolving it as political punishment in a haphazard fashion without a plan is certainly unique," Jewett told OBJ. "That said, since we don't know the details yet, it is hard to say exactly how unique the arrangement will be."

Jewett said Disney could file a lawsuit at some point, but it may instead choose to find a way to work with the state to get most of what it had with Reedy Creek back. He said many community development districts around the state operate close to how Reedy Creek does, so it's quite possible that Disney can come away with a consolation prize of a pared-down version.

Walt Disney Co.'s Walt Disney World — the nation's largest single-site employer, with nearly 70,000 Orlando workers — has four local theme parks: Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios. Walt Disney World alone is the top generator for visitation to Orlando, with more than 50 million people going through its turnstiles in previous years — many of those repeat visitors.

Disney also owns two area water parks, Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon, as well as several themed hotels, golf courses, a camping resort, timeshare properties, a residential community called Golden Oak at Walt Disney World Resort, ESPN Wide World of Sports and the Disney Springs dining/shopping/entertainment district."
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Here you go (I think this is the same thing Len posted about this morning) -

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis caused heads to spin on May 16 when he hinted that the state could be the new overseer of Walt Disney World's (NYSE: DIS) Reedy Creek Improvement District in Orlando.

Specifically, experts are curious how the state could make such moves and what kind of fallout there may be, as the Reedy Creek Improvement District area also consists of two municipalities in Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, where its largest 'resident' is Disney.

DeSantis was clear on his stance of not allowing local governments — Orange and Osceola counties — to take over control. "More likely, the state will simply assume control and make sure that we're able to impose the law and make sure we're collecting the taxes ... There's a whole bunch of different things that we will be able to do. I'd much rather have the state leading that effort than potentially having local governments … I'm worried that they would use that as a pretext to raise taxes on people when that's what they would want to do anyways, and then try to blame Reedy Creek. We’re not going to give them that opportunity," DeSantis said, during an event at Seminole State College while making an announcement regarding nursing education.

State officials told Orlando Business Journal, via a May 16 email, that the governor's statements at the event were his latest on the topic. Also, both Orange and Osceola counties said they were monitoring the situation.

But DeSantis' latest stance makes little sense, said Disney experts with knowledge of government workings.

"The state of Florida can't simply force a hostile takeover of two Florida cities chartered under Florida law," said Chad Emerson, a Disney expert who authored the book, Project Future: The Inside Story Behind the Creation of Disney World.

"Both of these local municipal governments are protected under Florida law. There is no legal or regulatory path for the Florida state Legislature to accomplish what they are seeking to do. Simply put, the Florida Constitution protects private businesses from big government intervention like this," he told OBJ.

One thing that 's guaranteed is that whatever DeSantis and the state of Florida come up with, it'll be distinct, said Aubrey Jewett, associate professor and assistant school director at the University of Central Florida's School of Politics, Security and International Affairs.

"We don't know for sure what the state will come up with, but it is probably safe to say that it will be unique since Reedy Creek was unique, and dissolving it as political punishment in a haphazard fashion without a plan is certainly unique," Jewett told OBJ. "That said, since we don't know the details yet, it is hard to say exactly how unique the arrangement will be."

Jewett said Disney could file a lawsuit at some point, but it may instead choose to find a way to work with the state to get most of what it had with Reedy Creek back. He said many community development districts around the state operate close to how Reedy Creek does, so it's quite possible that Disney can come away with a consolation prize of a pared-down version.

Walt Disney Co.'s Walt Disney World — the nation's largest single-site employer, with nearly 70,000 Orlando workers — has four local theme parks: Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios. Walt Disney World alone is the top generator for visitation to Orlando, with more than 50 million people going through its turnstiles in previous years — many of those repeat visitors.

Disney also owns two area water parks, Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon, as well as several themed hotels, golf courses, a camping resort, timeshare properties, a residential community called Golden Oak at Walt Disney World Resort, ESPN Wide World of Sports and the Disney Springs dining/shopping/entertainment district."
Yes…sorry about that 👍🏻

I’ll also remind project:future is top 5 books ever written about Disney
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
1(c) in full reads:

(c) GOVERNMENT. Pursuant to general or special law, a county government may be established by charter which shall be adopted, amended or repealed only upon vote of the electors of the county in a special election called for that purpose.​

"Pursuant to general or special law." This is the "dark stuff" we have discussed. This potentially is a back door for the legislature to control the process of establishing a charter county.

Per the article I quoted from Associate Professor Jewett:

[Non-Charter] Counties have powers of self-government as prescribed by the state legislature.​

Let's face it. We know that RCID does not have any "real" residents. It's not like you or I can ever move into the neighborhood. The RCID residents and property owners are hand-selected by Disney. RCID really is an unusual beast.

Thus, even if Disney/RCID has its own electors and those electors vote for a board of county commissioners, their powers can be greatly curtailed by the state legislature.

Still, DeSantis' idea that he is somehow going to control how much Disney pays in taxes is just crazy. The Florida Constitution clearly states:

(a) No tax shall be levied except in pursuance of law. No state ad valorem taxes shall be levied upon real estate or tangible personal property. All other forms of taxation shall be preempted to the state except as provided by general law.​

Unambiguously, ad valorem taxes are at the county or municipality level. The State of Florida just cannot do it.
The state can’t just create a single rump county with no power of self-government or one that strips municipalities of their authority. Being able to pass laws isn’t carte blanche to do anything and everything unless prohibited by the constitution. The state legislature cannot just rewrite the rules to deny a local government its constitutionally established right of self-governance.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
1(c) in full reads:

(c) GOVERNMENT. Pursuant to general or special law, a county government may be established by charter which shall be adopted, amended or repealed only upon vote of the electors of the county in a special election called for that purpose.​

"Pursuant to general or special law." This is the "dark stuff" we have discussed. This potentially is a back door for the legislature to control the process of establishing a charter county.

Per the article I quoted from Associate Professor Jewett:

[Non-Charter] Counties have powers of self-government as prescribed by the state legislature.​

Let's face it. We know that RCID does not have any "real" residents. It's not like you or I can ever move into the neighborhood. The RCID residents and property owners are hand-selected by Disney. RCID really is an unusual beast.

Thus, even if Disney/RCID has its own electors and those electors vote for a board of county commissioners, their powers can be greatly curtailed by the state legislature.

Still, DeSantis' idea that he is somehow going to control how much Disney pays in taxes is just crazy. The Florida Constitution clearly states:

(a) No tax shall be levied except in pursuance of law. No state ad valorem taxes shall be levied upon real estate or tangible personal property. All other forms of taxation shall be preempted to the state except as provided by general law.​

Unambiguously, ad valorem taxes are at the county or municipality level. The State of Florida just cannot do it.
I think you are reading that wrong. When it says pursuant to general or special law that doesn’t mean the legislature can just do whatever they want. That is just saying that if the county government wanted to establish a charter they would have to do so based on the existing state laws and/or constitution and can only be adopted by a vote of the electors. It is not saying the legislature can stop a county from adopting an otherwise legal charter. Since RCID currently is not a county it’s not relevant today, but would be should they follow the hypothetical plan you laid out as what he may be thinking.

If you look at RCID it has very limited authorities already compared to an actual county so there isn’t much for the state to curtail. As you say it’s not a true working government in the traditional sense with schools and many homeowners and poverty and other social issues to deal with. They need the very basic authority to levy taxes, build and maintain roads and utility projects and provide emergency services. There is really no way for the legislature to pass a special law or create a statute that revokes those authorities from all unchartered districts. Because of that the only reasonable path forward is RCID remains a special district not its own unchartered county. Could there be some compromise with Disney where they agree to some concessions that keep the majority of what they value but the state saves face? I suppose so, but short of that I still don’t see a path forward. The Governor was quoted as saying “the state will simply assume control and make sure that we're able to impose the law and make sure we're collecting the taxes”. That is a true pipe dream that legally cannot happen.

By the way, I applaud your efforts to play devil’s advocate a little and attempt to figure out a legal path forward to achieve those stated goals. In the end I think the plan falls short legally speaking, but just barely. It is sometimes frightening to see how many loopholes our various levels of government have. It should be a slam dunk that something like this is not even remotely possible.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The state can’t just create a single rump county with no power of self-government or one that strips municipalities of their authority. Being able to pass laws isn’t carte blanche to do anything and everything unless prohibited by the constitution. The state legislature cannot just rewrite the rules to deny a local government its constitutionally established right of self-governance.
You keep saying what I’m trying to say in much less words;). Good job simplifying it👍
 

lentesta

Premium Member
:

However, Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens also uses the word "substantial" (or its derivatives) 27 times. This harks back to Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy:

It is competent for the States to change the form of the remedy, or to modify it otherwise, as they may see fit, provided no substantial right secured by the contract is thereby impaired.​

Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens even gives us a definition of impairment:

impairment is defined as “to make worse; to diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength; to lessen in power; to weaken.”​

IMO, this means that any law that would "make worse", "diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength" would be considered a significant impairment by the Florida Supreme Court. However, since the Florida legislature hasn't even said what they will do next, I cannot yet say if this will result in an impairment. At the moment, it would seem that Orange and Osceola Counties are left holding the bag. However, DeSantis has repeatedly said they will pass more laws. I cannot say if these laws result in an impairment until I read them. :)

:

@ParentsOf4 - RCID does business with over 2,000 vendors. I'm guessing Disney has a contract with each of them.

Does the state issue a blanket "your contract is null and void" statement here, and tell the contractors to sue if they think they've been wronged? That ... seems like a recipe for full employment of Florida's legal professionals and jurists. I might be able to start and finish law school in time to ride that gravy train.

Does the state go through each contract to see what's in them? What if the state can't match the terms of the existing contracts, such as matching pay rates, overtime, health care for life, etc?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Right but this goes back to a point I just made.

RCID isn't really a "local government" of people. Its only residents and property owners are hand-selected by Disney. They exist with RCID only to the extent that Disney lets them. RCID really is an extension of The Walt Disney Company.

There's going to be some (including potentially some in the judiciary) who don't view this as having anything to do with self-governance. This really is all about one company, a company with a questionable right to self-government. (How many other companies have their own governments?)

However...

This also is why I think Disney has an ironclad First Amendment case. By ending RCID, which really is an extension of Disney, DeSantis is punishing Disney for exercising its First Amendment rights.
This has been explained about 1,000 times at this point. You can’t go into court and make an argument on a legally established district by saying “well…it’s really Disney…”

The thing has been around for 55 years. Even if the courts in Florida try to “send a message”…that verdict gets blown outta federal courts in record time.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Thus, even if Disney/RCID has its own electors and those electors vote for a board of county commissioners, their powers can be greatly curtailed by the state legislature.

Not without curtailing the powers of all other uncharted districts.

Also one is forgetting that if they make RCID a county, then they are no longer part of the current counties, and therefore Disney won't pay any taxes to Orange and Osceola counties. Also counties are limited in property tax that they can collect.
 

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