News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
perfectly legal for the Governor with the backing of the legislature to just dissolve any local government and take control of the municipality.

This is the key. The legislature can dissolve things, but the state can't just take them over. Home rule says that local governments prevail. So even if the governor dissolved Reedy Creek, LBV, and BL, the land would become unincorporated land within the two respective counties and controlled by the counties, not by the state.

Any new improvement district would also be subject to home role by the voters within the unincorporated territory. Without dissolving LBV and BL, which would be very difficult to do, That complicates creating a new special district, I guess because of home rule.

So it's not necessarily the dissolving that is prohibited, but rather what happens after the fact that makes it very difficult.

Although I said it before, there are several reasons why the dissolution law may not even apply to RCID.

This is just a mess, first amendment issues aside. It's just bad governance..
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
My interpretation of Home Rule is that municipalities are allowed to govern themselves without needing to seek approval from the state.

However, the Florida Constitution also includes this:

(a) ESTABLISHMENT. Municipalities may be established or abolished and their charters amended pursuant to general or special law. When any municipality is abolished, provision shall be made for the protection of its creditors.​

Am I misinterpreting this?

Thanks! :)

Wouldn't the part about "pursuant to general or special law" be the key part of that statute? It seems as though there would need to be a justification for abolishing a municipality outright. I would think that the section of the FL Constitution you quoted is intended to allow municipalities to merge (such as 2 small neighboring towns merging to save on administrative expenses, but that would require the debts of each municipality to be assigned to the new municipality created by the merger) and/or change their charter (from a Town to a City, for example). It was certainly not put in there to allow the governor to come in a shut down a municipality just to clear a path to exacting political revenge.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Wouldn't the part about "pursuant to general or special law" be the key part of that statute? It seems as though there would need to be a justification for abolishing a municipality outright. I would think that the section of the FL Constitution you quoted is intended to allow municipalities to merge (such as 2 small neighboring towns merging to save on administrative expenses, but that would require the debts of each municipality to be assigned to the new municipality created by the merger) and/or change their charter (from a Town to a City, for example). It was certainly not put in there to allow the governor to come in a shut down a municipality just to clear a path to exacting political revenge.
Right and as @mikejs78 pointed out even if the district is dissolved by a special law as is the case here there is nothing that says a replacement district could be created without the consent of the taxpayers in that district and run by representatives that were not elected by them. So far nobody has been able to point to anything within the law that allows that but it’s key to the Governor‘s plan that supposedly exists.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Technically, DeSantis isn’t doing an “intervention” on a “private business”. He’s doing an “intervention” on a special district.

I’ve previously posted quotes from the Florida Constitution (which trumps any Florida law) that allows the legislature to create, eliminate, or modify counties and municipalities by simple majority vote. (There are some Home Rule districts protected in the Florida Constitution, but RCID is not one of them.)

Florida statutes are not as powerful as the article suggests. Legislatures have the legal authority to alter their own statutes by majority votes. Existing Florida statutes protects RCID and Disney only to the extent that the legislature does not change them.

The article would have been much more informative if it included references to specific parts of the Florida Constitution (which the legislature cannot change by simple majority vote) that prevent DeSantis from doing what he’s trying to do.

I’ll emphasize this again - I do not think what DeSantis is trying to do is right. I think he has violated Disney’s First Amendment rights. I think Disney has an ironclad case for this.

There’s also some debate that he might have violated the Contracts Clause of the U.S. Constitution. However, I quoted a Supreme Court ruling that does allow the State to alter contracts, as long as those alterations are not “substantial”. This then leads into a subjective discussion of what is a “substantial” alteration.

These federal issues aside, the article focuses on Florida law. Exactly what Florida laws are the article referring to and what prevents the legislature from passing new laws to create exceptions to those existing laws?

To be clear, I am trying to understand, First Amendment aside (which Disney hasn’t even mentioned yet), where exactly is there something that he cannot simply change (with the concurrence of the majority of the legislature) based on Florida law.

Again, this does not mean I think DeSantis is right. But is it legal?
Had DeSantis announced his move against RCID, as an act to reform special tax districts, the day before Chapek made his proclamation, would DeSantis's move be legit?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
There’s also some debate that he might have violated the Contracts Clause of the U.S. Constitution. However, I quoted a Supreme Court ruling that does allow the State to alter contracts, as long as those alterations are not “substantial”. This then leads into a subjective discussion of what is a “substantial” alteration.
Why do you keep ignoring that Florida precedent calls for the State to demonstrate a public need for the contracts to be changed?
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
This is the key. The legislature can dissolve things, but the state can't just take them over. Home rule says that local governments prevail. So even if the governor dissolved Reedy Creek, LBV, and BL, the land would become unincorporated land within the two respective counties and controlled by the counties, not by the state.

Any new improvement district would also be subject to home role by the voters within the unincorporated territory. Without dissolving LBV and BL, which would be very difficult to do, That complicates creating a new special district, I guess because of home rule.

So it's not necessarily the dissolving that is prohibited, but rather what happens after the fact that makes it very difficult.

Although I said it before, there are several reasons why the dissolution law may not even apply to RCID.

This is just a mess, first amendment issues aside. It's just bad governance..
Right. This is why I've looked at this whole thing side eyed from the very beginning: Disney has the leverage here.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Consistent with Blaisdell, the precedent I read has to do with making "substantial" changes to a contract.

If you could please provide the case you have in mind, that would be a big help.

Thanks!:)
I would presume "substantial " would imply "substantial" impact. I see 2 classes that could be considered to experience "substantial " impact.
1. Bondholders
2. Tax payers.

If RCID can be allowed to sunset, no new bonds, to the point where existing bonds are paid in full at date of maturity, neither class 1 nor class 2 would experience "substantial" impact.

The above could be used as a model to reform special tax districts which is a stated goal of DeSantis that has been voiced prior to the Chapek Proclamation
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
If RCID can be allowed to sunset, no new bonds, to the point where existing bonds are paid in full at date of maturity, neither class 1 nor class 2 would experience "substantial" impact.

And how could that be done? Who would pay for it? And keep in mind that the bond contracts contain a closet say Reedy Creek will be able to continue to build and take on new bonds.

The above could be used as a model to reform special tax districts which is a stated goal of DeSantis that has been voiced prior to the Chapek Proclamation

When did DeSantis ever say that? He never said a word about it before.
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Consistent with Blaisdell, the precedent I read has to do with making "substantial" changes to a contract.

If you could please provide the case you have in mind, that would be a big help.

Thanks!:)
I already have. It’s the Sears case referenced in the Bloomberg Tax article that quotes prior cases.

The conclusion, however, that “‘virtually’ no impairment is tolerable necessarily implies that some impairment is tolerable,” though not as much impairment as would be “acceptable under traditional federal contract clause analysis.” Pomponio, 378 So. 2d at 780. “Some impairment” may be “tolerable” where the governmental actor can demonstrate a “significant and legitimate public purpose behind the regulation.” Searcy, 209 So. 3d at 1192 (quoting Energy Reserves Grp., Inc. v. Kan. Power & Light Co., 459 U.S. 400, 411 (1983)).​


Just wanting to dissolve or take over a District is not a significant purpose. The State presumably has to demonstrate that the District is harming the public in some manner so egregious that it has to be stopped at the expense of the contracts. Just wanting to change things is not a significant public purpose. If the District was actually ignoring state law that would be something but the State has presented no evidence nor sought to utilize existing enforcement mechanisms.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
When did DeSantis ever say that? He never said a word about it before.
He says he was thinking about it. We just need to trust him that’s true. Funny how his goal to reform or eliminate special tax districts didn’t impact the thousands of other districts untouched by this bill. It’s complete political spin for anyone to say this is part of a plan that existed all along. If you don’t believe me, just ask the governor. He’s told anyone who would listen he’s punishing Disney. So either he’s punishing Disney or he was planning this all along and he’s now lying to the public. Either way that’s a great quality I want in an elected official 🤦‍♂️
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The above could be used as a model to reform special tax districts which is a stated goal of DeSantis that has been voiced prior to the Chapek Proclamation
No, he did not. This isn’t about a specific wide type of District needing reform as Reedy Creek is a unique district. In fact, the governor has claimed to being wholly ignorant of Reedy Creek until recently.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Had DeSantis announced his move against RCID, as an act to reform special tax districts, the day before Chapek made his proclamation, would DeSantis's move be legit?
As we all know—and as DeSantis himself has made amply clear—he wouldn’t have made such a move in the first place had Disney not spoken out against the bill. There’s little sense in trying to imagine this as happening in the absence of a retaliatory motive when those responsible aren’t pretending otherwise.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Regarding this part of the Florida Constitution:

SECTION 4. Transfer of powers.—By law or by resolution of the governing bodies of each of the governments affected, any function or power of a county, municipality or special district may be transferred to or contracted to be performed by another county, municipality or special district, after approval by vote of the electors of the transferor and approval by vote of the electors of the transferee, or as otherwise provided by law.​

IMO, the "or as otherwise provided by law" suggests that, as an alternative, the Florida legislature can pass a law to transfer powers without the approval of electors.

Regarding:

Ad valorem taxes, exclusive of taxes levied for the payment of bonds and taxes levied for periods not longer than two years when authorized by vote of the electors who are the owners of freeholds therein not wholly exempt from taxation, shall not be levied in excess of the following millages upon the assessed value of real estate and tangible personal property: for all county purposes, ten mills; for all municipal purposes, ten mills; for all school purposes, ten mills; for water management purposes for the northwest portion of the state lying west of the line between ranges two and three east, 0.05 mill; for water management purposes for the remaining portions of the state, 1.0 mill; and for all other special districts a millage authorized by law approved by vote of the electors who are owners of freeholds therein not wholly exempt from taxation. A county furnishing municipal services may, to the extent authorized by law, levy additional taxes within the limits fixed for municipal purposes.

We assumed that the State of Florida would recreate RCID as a special district within a local county. DeSantis' most recent statements indicate that he has no intention of doing so:

More likely that the state will simply assume control, and make sure that we’re able to impose the law and make sure we’re collecting the taxes.​

What happens to RCID after its dissolution? Perhaps DeSantis (with support from a majority of the legislature) intends to create a new non-chartered county as allowed by the Florida Constitution:

(a) POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS. The state shall be divided by law into political subdivisions called counties. Counties may be created, abolished or changed by law, with provision for payment or apportionment of the public debt.​

And:

(f) NON-CHARTER GOVERNMENT. Counties not operating under county charters shall have such power of self-government as is provided by general or special law. The board of county commissioners of a county not operating under a charter may enact, in a manner prescribed by general law, county ordinances not inconsistent with general or special law, but an ordinance in conflict with a municipal ordinance shall not be effective within the municipality to the extent of such conflict.​

The State of Florida legislature has the power to enact general or special laws as long as they do not violate the Florida or U.S. Constitutions.

RCID's current millage is 13.5. Bay Lake's and Lake Buena Vista's both are 2.1. This seems to be well under the 21.0 (excluding schools) allowed by the Florida Constitution.

But since Orange and Osceola Counties currently collect taxes from Disney, how do those counties not lose tax revenue if "the state will simply assume control"? This is the part where I think DeSantis is smoking something. He complains that Disney is not paying their “fair share”. In reality, Disney is paying more than their fair share.

Just so @GoofGoof doesn't have to write it again, this is dark stuff.

And I will write this again, just so people don't think I'm defending DeSantis: This is wrong.

I'm just trying to figure out if this is legal according to Florida law. (I'm already convinced DeSantis has violated Disney's First Amendment rights and maybe the Contracts Clause.)
The issue I see here is that the RCID land is already part of a county so in order to carve that land out into a non-chartered county wouldn’t it need to be removed from Orange and Osceola counties first? It cannot be in 2 counties at once so those counties would lose Disney and the other landowners as taxpayers. Also, in a non-chartered county wouldn’t the board of county commissioners still need to be elected by the landowners? Is there any legal way for the state to take control of the county without any say of the landowners? Seems very unlikely that will fly.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Again though, the Florida Constitution allows the legislator to create, abolish or modify counties by (it appears) law:

(a) POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS. The state shall be divided by law into political subdivisions called counties. Counties may be created, abolished or changed by law, with provision for payment or apportionment of the public debt.​

There's nothing in this about needing landowners approval to do this.

Regarding commissioners elected by landowners, my interpretation (I could be wrong) is that these apply to chartered counties:

(c) GOVERNMENT. Pursuant to general or special law, a county government may be established by charter which shall be adopted, amended or repealed only upon vote of the electors of the county in a special election called for that purpose.​
(d) COUNTY OFFICERS. There shall be elected by the electors of each county, for terms of four years, a sheriff, a tax collector, a property appraiser, a supervisor of elections, and a clerk of the circuit court. Unless otherwise provided by special law approved by vote of the electors or pursuant to Article V, section 16, the clerk of the circuit court shall be ex officio clerk of the board of county commissioners, auditor, recorder and custodian of all county funds. Notwithstanding subsection 6(e) of this article, a county charter may not abolish the office of a sheriff, a tax collector, a property appraiser, a supervisor of elections, or a clerk of the circuit court; transfer the duties of those officers to another officer or office; change the length of the four-year term of office; or establish any manner of selection other than by election by the electors of the county.​
(e) COMMISSIONERS. Except when otherwise provided by county charter, the governing body of each county shall be a board of county commissioners composed of five or seven members serving staggered terms of four years. After each decennial census the board of county commissioners shall divide the county into districts of contiguous territory as nearly equal in population as practicable. One commissioner residing in each district shall be elected as provided by law.​

But for unchartered counties:

(f) NON-CHARTER GOVERNMENT. Counties not operating under county charters shall have such power of self-government as is provided by general or special law. The board of county commissioners of a county not operating under a charter may enact, in a manner prescribed by general law, county ordinances not inconsistent with general or special law, but an ordinance in conflict with a municipal ordinance shall not be effective within the municipality to the extent of such conflict.​

My interpretation (and I hope I'm wrong) is that non-chartered counties only have the powers that the legislature gives them.

The following table is quoted from a paper written by Aubrey Jewett (who I think is a Poly Sci Associate Professor at UCF):

View attachment 639903
This still makes no sense to me. So essentially what you are saying is the legislature can at their whim dissolve any county in the state. They then have the authority to create a new non-chartered county that covers all or a portion of the land in the dissolved county and that non-chartered county has no right to self government. So again, why not dissolve Miami-Dade or Orange counties themselves and then reform them as non-chartered counties where the Governor has total control? That can’t be legal. My original question still stands. Even if they did this to the RCID land they would have to carve that land out of Orange and Osceola Counties and put it into a new non-cbartered county which has a major impact to the tax base, especially Orange County. What happens to Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista? These are incorporated cities. Can they just be removed from one county and put into a new non-charter one?

Question on RCID directly: how will they pay off the utility bonds without being able to levy a utility tax? Seems problematic.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I have read Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens before.

In brief, Sears entered into a contract with Forbes/Cohen Florida Properties to sublease mall space. That contract allowed Sears to further sublease that space. Without informing Sears, Forbes/Cohen met with the City of Palm Beach Gardens to enact a resolution preventing Sears from subleasing, even though it was in Sears' contract. The Florida Supreme Court ruled for Sears.

As noted in Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens:

The Florida Constitution offers greater protection for the rights derived from the Contract Clause than the United States Constitution. See Sarasota Cty. v. Andrews, 573 So. 2d 113, 115 (Fla. 2d DCA 1991) (citing Pomponio v. Claridge of Pompano Condo., Inc., 378 So. 2d 774, 780 (Fla. 1979)); James W. Ely, Jr., The Contract Clause: A Constitutional History 253 (2016) (“[T]he Florida Supreme Court has signaled its willingness to protect contracts more fully than the federal courts.”). Thus, the Florida Supreme Court has recognized that it is “not bound to accept as controlling the United States Supreme Court’s interpretation of a parallel provision of the federal constitution.” Pomponio, 378 So. 2d at 779.​
“To impair a preexisting contract, a law must ‘have the effect of rewriting antecedent contracts’ in a manner that ‘chang[es] the substantive rights of the parties to existing contracts.’” Searcy, Denney, Scarola, Barnhart & Shipley, etc. v. State, 209 So. 3d 1181, 1191 (Fla. 2017) (citation omitted). “Total destruction of contractual expectations is not necessary for a finding of substantial impairment.” U.S. Fid. & Guar. Co. v. Dep’t of Ins., 453 So. 2d 1355, 1360 (Fla. 1984). Rather, impairment is defined as “to make worse; to diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength; to lessen in power; to weaken.” Pomponio, 378 So. 2d at 781 n.41 (citation omitted); Pudlit 2 Joint Venture, LLP v. Westwood Gardens Homeowners ***’n, 169 So. 3d 145, 150 (Fla. 4th DCA 2015).​
Any legislative action which diminishes the value of a contract is repugnant to and inhibited by the Constitution.” In re Advisory Opinion, 509 So. 2d at 314. For example, “[a] statute which retroactively turns otherwise profitable contracts into losing propositions is clearly such a prohibited enactment.” Id. at 314-15. Indeed, it is a “well-accepted principle that virtually no degree of contract impairment is tolerable.” Pudlit, 169 So. 3d at 150 (quoting Coral Lakes Cmty. ***’n v. Busey Bank, N.A., 30 So. 3d 579, 584 (Fla. 2d DCA 2010)); see also Citrus Mem’l Health Found., Inc. v. Citrus Cty. Hosp. Bd., 108 So. 3d 675, 677 (Fla. 1st DCA 2013) (“[A]ny legislation that detracts from the value of a contract is subject to the constitutional proscription . . . .”).​

And it ends with:

We conclude that the City unconstitutionally impaired Sears’s right to contract and deprived Sears of its rights to substantive due process. Because the City’s Resolution deprived Sears of substantive due process, Sears is also owed attorney’s fees under 42 U.S.C. sections 1983 and 1988. Finally, we conclude that the trial court erred in not granting declaratory relief in Sears’s favor, and we specifically find that Sears has a right to sublease, pursuant to the 1987 lease agreement.​

To understand what this means, you have consider the history of Supreme Court rulings on contracts.

Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy is considered a landmark ruling for the Contracts Clause. In it, the Supreme Court held that contracts must not be impaired. Still, it also stated:

It is competent for the States to change the form of the remedy, or to modify it otherwise, as they may see fit, provided no substantial right secured by the contract is thereby impaired.​

In other words, Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy held that States can change contracts as long as these changes are not "substantial".

Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy was pretty much the standard applied until Home Building & Loan Assn. v. Blaisdell was decided in 1934.

What Blaisdell did was to allow States to impair contracts as long as these impairments were justified by "emergency" circumstances. In this particular case, the Supreme Court held that it was OK for the State of Minnesota to alter the terms of contracts in order to reduce the number of foreclosures caused by the Great Depression. (The Great Depression being the emergency.)

Blaisdell has been widely criticized as it allows the government to violate the Contracts Clause of the U.S. Constitution. Since Blaisdell was decided in 1934, there have been other cases that are viewed as further weakening the Contracts Clause.

Note that Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens includes:

impairment is defined as “to make worse; to diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength; to lessen in power; to weaken.”

Also note the frequent use of the word "substantial" (or its derivatives) in Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens.

The issue here (IMO) is one of substantial impairment.

So when you quote this paragraph from Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens:

The conclusion, however, that “‘virtually’ no impairment is tolerable necessarily implies that some impairment is tolerable,” though not as much impairment as would be “acceptable under traditional federal contract clause analysis.” Pomponio, 378 So. 2d at 780. “Some impairment” may be “tolerable” where the governmental actor can demonstrate a “significant and legitimate public purpose behind the regulation.” Searcy, 209 So. 3d at 1192 (quoting Energy Reserves Grp., Inc. v. Kan. Power & Light Co., 459 U.S. 400, 411 (1983)).​

Recalling that the U.S. Supreme Court is the ultimate judge of what the Contracts Clause in the U.S. Constitution means, I interpret this as a rejection within Sears v. Palm Beach Gardens of the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Contracts Clause as specified in Blaisdell and all court rulings that have been based on Blaisdell since then. The Florida Supreme Court has essentially said that no impairment is allowed, where:

impairment is defined as “to make worse; to diminish in quantity, value, excellency or strength; to lessen in power; to weaken.”

Again, this goes back to my previous point. What does it mean to impair a contract? If all bondholders are fully paid according to the terms of their bonds, regardless of who is paying them, is this a substantial impairment? Are these contracts "made worse" or "weakened"? (This is a rhetorical question. I honestly don't know how this will be interpreted legally.)

I believe that, if it makes it that far, this will come down to a ruling by the Florida Supreme Court based on this being a deprivation of "substantive due process" or "substantial impairment".

I hope this makes sense. :)
No, it doesn’t make sense because you are still ignoring that Florida has its own, stricter interpretation and precedent. The Florida state constitution has its own contract clause, so no, precedent does not default to the lesser federal standard. The Florida standard isn’t just impairment, it’s significant public purpose.
 

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