News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Who the heck is RCID taxpayers right now????
You can't be referring to the handful of folks living manufactured homes inside the borders of RCID ???????

It's mainly Disney, because they own most of the property within the district. However, if RCID is eliminated and the bond debt passes to Orange and Osceola counties, the liability for the bond debt would pass to all taxpayers in those counties instead of solely Disney.

The RCID tax income would disappear; those taxes would no longer exist.
 

Andrew M

Well-Known Member
Who the heck is RCID taxpayers right now????
You can't be referring to the handful of folks living manufactured homes inside the borders of RCID ???????
Wouldn't the one and only taxpayer in the RCID be Disney, even if it's broken down through different channels? With exception of maybe a few on-property but not Disney-owned hotels?
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
what debt? Taxpayers are already paying for the bonds as per @mmascari
You completely misread what he said. He said a taxpayer is paying for the bonds - Disney, because Disney is the landowner of in Reedy Creek. Their property taxes to Reedy Creek pay for the bonds.

If Reedy Creek goes away, and the bonds get transferred somewhere, either to the state or counties, then the taxpayers of that entity will be forced to pay the bond. Basically whoever ends up owning the bond, their taxpayers will end up paying. If it's Reedy Creek, Disney pays. If it's Orange County, the Orange County taxpayers pay. If it's the state of Florida, Florida taxpayers pay. This is so simple, I don't understand why you keep twisting it in knots that don't make any sense.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
I agree. But, I also rule out the opinions of anyone who calls it the “Don’t say gay” law.
You do you but personally, I tend to listen to the people who write the bills and when they say it is meant to do something, I believe them. Not the press clippings, not the sanitized, polished and marketable version they lay out for everyone later, but the legit intent that often comes out when it is being debated/planned out. In those cases where that information does comes out, why on Earth would anyone believe the marketing instead of the original source?

In the case of the RCID repeal you have case after case of the people who wrote it, passed it and signed it coming out and saying it was to punish Disney. Why are so many just refusing to believe them?

I'll never get it but it doesn't matter. There is no chance this happens in any meaningful way unless the government of Florida wants to tank their own economy.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Who the heck is RCID taxpayers right now????
You can't be referring to the handful of folks living manufactured homes inside the borders of RCID ???????
Right now a little less than 25% of the taxes are paid by DVC owners through their maintenance fees and the remainder is paid directly by Disney or various subsidiaries of Disney. There are a handful of other taxpayers as well but that’s not a material amount of the total taxes.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
Who the heck is RCID taxpayers right now????
You can't be referring to the handful of folks living manufactured homes inside the borders of RCID ???????
Primarily Disney. Disney is the largest taxpayer by far within RCID. But they are paying for the bonds through their taxes to RCID. If RCID goes away, then they won't be paying those taxes to RCID anymore.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
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UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
From the start, I have wondered if these very public statements have been made purposefully since they strongly support Disney if Disney decides to pursue a 1st Amendment case.

The idea being, the goal of the political party in charge is not to actually shut down RCID but, to use a baseball term, to throw a brushback pitch.

Once the dust settles, RCID is not going anywhere.

I think they were made purposefully for political gain -- to increase donations and potentially voter turnout.

I don't think they actually care at all if the law stands and RCID is eliminated; they will have already gotten what they wanted.
 

Vacationeer

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
2 points continue to bother me about some pro RCID dissolution arguments popping up every other page. One is the idea that one existing facet of law that isn’t broken is all that’s needed. As a society we can’t just pick one specific law to abide to be legal in our action(s), we need to not cross ANY and ALL applicable laws unless explicitly stated otherwise. The idea that because somewhere FL has this ability does nothing for other laws it potentially crosses. Second is the idea that it’s near impossible to prove intent since not every voter who overturned RCID came out publicly saying it was meant to reprimand Disney. On the flipside of that, can anyone show previous efforts in trying to protect Florida, other businesses &/or citizens from RCID before this current fiasco. Do either of these things matter?
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
It's mainly Disney, because they own most of the property within the district. However, if RCID is eliminated and the bond debt passes to Orange and Osceola counties, the liability for the bond debt would pass to all taxpayers in those counties instead of solely Disney.

The RCID tax income would disappear; those taxes would no longer exist.
So YES, RCID IS DISNEY (I knew that forever)
And YES, if RCID is eliminated and the bond debt passes to Orange and Osceola counties.

Bottom line, if RCID is eliminated, the elimination of the bond debt to Disney (TO ME) seems like s huge tax break for Disney.
Disney wins big.
DeSantis's attempt to punish Disney totally backfires.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
The state of Florida doesn't need to change any municipal bond into a corporate bond, the state of Florida could simply create an area of special property taxation that happens to cover what was Reedy Creek and then allocate the Reedy Creek debt to that area's property holders, which in this case would be Disney. I've worked in cities where special areas within a city were created that hit every business within that area with special taxes to cover costs associated with that area. In some instances it was done in ways that hit business based on X dollars per square foot with an exemption for any business under 5000 square feet so that it only hit large multi-floor building... there are lots of ways the state could nail Disney for all the money the debt requires and then some. Disney is aware of this and its the reason they are so upset. Even if the State just passes some new law that only hits Disney for the 2 billion debt, Disney knows it would still be hit going forward for property taxes like every other business in the area and that those taxes would be used for things based on a governing body that they no longer control as they control Reedy Creeks government.

Not possible in Florida. Special tax district can only be created in unincorporated land, or within a city and acted by the city government. The cities in question, Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake, would have to agree to any special taxing district.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
So YES, RCID IS DISNEY (I knew that forever)
And YES, if RCID is eliminated and the bond debt passes to Orange and Osceola counties.

Bottom line, if RCID is eliminated, the elimination of the bond debt to Disney (TO ME) seems like s huge tax break for Disney.
Disney wins big.
DeSantis's attempt to punish Disney totally backfires.
Disney wins big from a revenue standpoint, but it loses big on its ability to shape the direction of WDW. Reedy Creek was a huge reason why WDW was able to be built as it was - why the bubble exists, why the roads are all in good shape, etc. If Reedy Creek goes away, the experience for the guest will eventually decline in those areas.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
So YES, RCID IS DISNEY (I knew that forever)
And YES, if RCID is eliminated and the bond debt passes to Orange and Osceola counties.

Bottom line, if RCID is eliminated, the elimination of the bond debt to Disney (TO ME) seems like s huge tax break for Disney.
Disney wins big.
DeSantis's attempt to punish Disney totally backfires.

It would almost certainly be a tax break for Disney, but I don't think it would actually be a win. The control they have with RCID is worth the extra taxes, or else they'd have attempted to eliminate the district themselves.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I think they were made purposefully for political gain; to increase donations and potentially voter turnout.

I don't think they actually care at all if the law stands and RCID is eliminated; they will have already gotten what they wanted.
Agreed but I’d take it a step further. I actually think a 1st amendment lawsuit would play right into the hands of a Governor who wants to be President. It would be a complete goat rodeo and eventually probably go all the way to the Supreme Court. DeSantis gets to play the part of the guy who is taking down woke corporations. He throws in a few additional buzz words in addition to woke and the donations come flooding in. If he wins he can celebrate it. If he loses he can rail about the courts being biased. Either way he gets more donations. Win/win. I agree that the fate of RCID is largely irrelevant.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Now you're just trolling right? Were the earlier posts to try and get everyone going? Well played earlier, but I think this one put you over the top.

Disney has be super quiet. Enough that many have wondered what was up.

It's not Disney debt, it's RCID debt. The only debt impact to Disney is not having to pay RCID taxes after it's gone. It's also not 2 billion.

There's no mechanism to transfer public RCID debt to a private Disney company.

All things that were discussed in great details 100 pages ago. If not trolling, I'm not sure the point in trying to rehash it all again and using the wrong numbers too.
Stop acting like you work for Disney's PR department. Everyone knows that RCID is for all intents and purposes Disney. If you go back to the original intent of the development it was also going to result in a actual city which is what EPCOT was supposed to be where actual families would live and work and that was in part a reason RCID made sense... but then Disney ignored the original intention and remade EPCOT into a theme park.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
From the start, I have wondered if these very public statements have been made purposefully since they strongly support Disney if Disney decides to pursue a 1st Amendment case.

The idea being, the goal of the political party in charge is not to actually shut down RCID but, to use a baseball term, to throw a brushback pitch.

Once the dust settles, RCID is not going anywhere.
I hope you’re right, though I’m less optimistic that DeSantis and his cronies will be content to let Disney “win” this battle.
 

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