News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[CaptainAmerica]

Most of the preserved wetlands owned by the District are down in Osceola County, nowhere near “the bubble”. Setting aside land for conservation was also part of the deal made with the state.

................

That's... exactly the point.

"Here, government that we control, hold on to the these protected wetlands for us. We might need them for development later, but shhh we're not going to talk about that. Just make sure that nobody else gets to develop anything on them."

Ten years later...

"Hey, government that we control, remember those sweet wetlands that you've been holding onto so that there can't be any development on them? Those highly valuable, smack-in-the-middle-of-the-biggest-tourism-hub-in-the-world wetlands? Well we'd like to un-protect them because we'd like to build a new DVC resort. Yeah yeah yeah, don't worry about those conservation covenants, we're going to buy some super cheap swampland in the middle of the state that nobody wants anyways and 'donate' that so our conservation obligations will be satisfied. We'll just do a little tradesies and everyone will come out even-steven."

 

[mkt]

we're going to buy some super cheap swampland in the middle of the state that nobody wants

You just described WDW.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Florida law disagrees with you. Disney could essentially avoid most or all property taxes on that land without RCID

https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/florida/statutes/florida_statutes_196-26#:~:text=Florida%20Statutes%20196.26%20–%20Exemption%20for%20real%20property,the%20land%20exempt%20from%20taxation%20under%20this%20section.

“Land that is dedicated in perpetuity for conservation purposes and that is used exclusively for conservation purposes is exempt from ad valorem taxation.”

Your argument that getting that land off their books saves them on property taxes is not valid. The counties know this and it’s probably why they never fought it.

Not sure why the link isn’t working but just search FL statute 196.26

"Perpetuity" doesn't last as long as you'd think.

Read up on Mira Lago (not to be confused with Mar-A-Lago).

 

[lazyboy97o]

I noted on the podcast that the board of the Wilton Drive district (Broward County, I think) is made up of land and business owners in the district, who can profit directly from the decisions made by the district.

Universal’s proposed community development district would also be controlled by Universal and any other landowners who decide to join the district. While the focus is on transportation, a community development district could take control of things like roads and emergency services, including fire code review of buildings.

 

[lazyboy97o]

................

That's... exactly the point.

"Here, government that we control, hold on to the these protected wetlands for us. We might need them for development later, but shhh we're not going to talk about that. Just make sure that nobody else gets to develop anything on them."

Ten years later...

"Hey, government that we control, remember those sweet wetlands that you've been holding onto so that there can't be any development on them? Those highly valuable, smack-in-the-middle-of-the-biggest-tourism-hub-in-the-world wetlands? Well we'd like to un-protect them because we'd like to build a new DVC resort. Yeah yeah yeah, don't worry about those conservation covenants, we're going to buy some super cheap swampland in the middle of the state that nobody wants anyways and 'donate' that so our conservation obligations will be satisfied. We'll just do a little tradesies and everyone will come out even-steven."

You’re again conflating different things. The lands that get traded for conservation offsets aren’t the same lands that are owned by the District, especially the large contiguous holdings nowhere near or contiguous with Walt Disney World. They’re also very much wetlands that are part of water management of the Reedy Creek watershed that is some of the northernmost waters of the Everglades hydrological system.

 

[Cliff]

The public record request came back blank, no findings. It’s not improper or illegal for Disney to interact with RCID.

Sure...interacting is expected. As long as it was leagal and within the proper boundries. Its my guess that Disney, over time, got so "comfortable" with RCID that tge crossed the lines. I suspect that crossing the line got so "common" and "normal"...that it became standard operating proceedure. Why?....because Disney never dreamed in a million years that the state would suddenly pull out a giant flashlight and start looking under all the rocks.

I suspect that MANY people will be formaly questioned and I think that hundreds of people know where the proverbial bodies are burried.

My guess is that the state will seize email servers and hard drives. I think that IT people and document handlers will he heavily questioned too.

But again...I might be 100% wrong

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sure...interacting is expected. As long as it was leagal and within the proper boundries. Its my guess that Disney, over time, got so "comfortable" with RCID that tge crossed the lines. I suspect that crossing the line got so "common" and "normal"...that it became standard operating proceedure. Why?....because Disney never dreamed in a million years that the state would suddenly pull out a giant flashlight and start looking under all the rocks.

I suspect that MANY people will be formaly questioned and I think that hundreds of people know where the proverbial bodies are burried.

But again...I might be 100% wrong

Both Disney and the District were very aware that just the appearance of impropriety was a problem. That’s part of why the District’s reputation for things like permitting is being the strictest and most difficult to work with. They had no problem telling Disney what to do.

If you’re going to make accusations of a crime then you should at least make more than vague accusations based on nothing more than a guess.

 

[GBAB1973]

Sure...interacting is expected. As long as it was leagal and within the proper boundries. Its my guess that Disney, over time, got so "comfortable" with RCID that tge crossed the lines. I suspect that crossing the line got so "common" and "normal"...that it became standard operating proceedure. Why?....because Disney never dreamed in a million years that the state would suddenly pull out a giant flashlight and start looking under all the rocks.

I suspect that MANY people will be formaly questioned and I think that hundreds of people know where the proverbial bodies are burried.

My guess is that the state will seize email servers and hard drives. I think that IT people and document handlers will he heavily questioned too.

But again...I might be 100% wrong

Seize email servers and hard drives? LOL. Whew boy. The conspiracy runs deep with you, doesn't it?

 

[mkt]

But again...I might be 100% wrong

I highlighted the most relevant part.

This is like throwing a bag of crap into a room, and defending yourself by saying "I was giving them fertilizer!"

 

[GBAB1973]

Both Disney and the District were very aware that just the appearance of impropriety was a problem. That’s part of why the District’s reputation for things like permitting is being the strictest and most difficult to work with. They had no problem telling Disney what to do.

Yep. Just look at the recent agreement with RCID and Disney? They pretty much did it out in the open and DeSantis and his crew was too busy high fiving each other to notice what was happening, in broad daylight, right in front of them.

The notion that what has gone on between Disney and the RCID is basically a criminal enterprise like Cliff suggests seems quite farfetched.

 

[LAKid53]

Im not a lawyer but it seems to me that the state mearly needs to show that RCID and Disney had a "self serving" collusion happening. If the state has examples of this...and my guess is they will find a TON of it over the decades...the State will will win this.

Can anybody say with a high degree of confidence that Disney did "not" colude with RCID? Did Disney "not" use RCID to serve the company. I'm guessing the state Investigator General is going to dig VERY deep into the communications between RCID and Disney execs and I suspect they will find plenty of improper and yes...illeagle dealings between RCID and the company. I would even guess that Disney is trying to scrub and clean those communication records as fast as they can.

Yes....I do suspect the state WILL find corruption over the decades...and they will find that evidence very quickly.

Or maybe Im 100% wrong???

You're wrong. The AG's request for documents turned up no documents - no emails, texts, records of phone calls...

And it's not illegal for a corporation, or anyone, to interact with the special district its property resides in. I can call SFWMD all I want to ask questions about my water management district assessment.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Seize email servers and hard drives? LOL. Whew boy. The conspiracy runs deep with you, doesn't it?

I’ve said I think this will happen. It’s a logical step in the ongoing escalation.

 

[LAKid53]

Yep. Just look at the recent agreement with RCID and Disney? They pretty much did it out in the open and DeSantis and his crew was too busy high fiving each other to notice what was happening, in broad daylight, right in front of them.

The notion that what has gone on between Disney and the RCID is basically a criminal enterprise like Cliff suggests seems quite farfetched.

Well, for one, because state law REQUIRED them to do so.

 

[LAKid53]

Sure...interacting is expected. As long as it was leagal and within the proper boundries. Its my guess that Disney, over time, got so "comfortable" with RCID that tge crossed the lines. I suspect that crossing the line got so "common" and "normal"...that it became standard operating proceedure. Why?....because Disney never dreamed in a million years that the state would suddenly pull out a giant flashlight and start looking under all the rocks.

I suspect that MANY people will be formaly questioned and I think that hundreds of people know where the proverbial bodies are burried.

My guess is that the state will seize email servers and hard drives. I think that IT people and document handlers will he heavily questioned too.

But again...I might be 100% wrong

You are. Please review the various statutes on how communications with regulatory officials have to be conducted. I'm sure RCID staff and board members were yo to date on the laws.

 

[flynnibus]

The "preserved wetlands" status is a sham. They're not "preserved wetlands" because Disney is really enthusiastic about conserving the natural flora and fauna of Central Florida, they're "preserved wetlands" because Disney wants to protect the bubble. It's a commercial interest.

Like... this was literally the plot of the latest season of Yellowstone.

Once again… wrong

 

[scottieRoss]

Im not a lawyer but it seems to me that the state mearly needs to show that RCID and Disney had a "self serving" collusion happening. If the state has examples of this...and my guess is they will find a TON of it over the decades...the State will will win this.

Can anybody say with a high degree of confidence that Disney did "not" colude with RCID? Did Disney "not" use RCID to serve the company. I'm guessing the state Investigator General is going to dig VERY deep into the communications between RCID and Disney execs and I suspect they will find plenty of improper and yes...illeagle dealings between RCID and the company. I would even guess that Disney is trying to scrub and clean those communication records as fast as they can.

Yes....I do suspect the state WILL find corruption over the decades...and they will find that evidence very quickly.

Or maybe Im 100% wrong???

Actually, you are 100% wrong.
Dealings between TWDC and RCID were not collusion. They are permitted by law and most were specific examples of Contract Law. The board was elected by the landowners at the rate of 1 vote per acre or major fraction thereof. The original charter and Florida land law was specifically enacted to permit these kinds of dealings.

 

[GBAB1973]

Well, for one, because state law REQUIRED them to do so.

Which gets to my point, the fact they are dotting their is and crossing their ts here would run counter to the allegation that Disney/RCID are nefarious and have committed crimes behind the scenes. Why would they suddenly start following the law if they have been, as Cliff suggests, not following law leading up to this point?

 

[el_super]

But the question is why are corporate controlled municipal entities problematic?

A lot has been written on this already. Giving Disney quasi-government powers put them in a position to compete for the same resources that other counties and government needed. The counties have pushed back, complained and even sued over the setup in the past. The information is all out there.

Enough to justify being taken over by the state? Maybe not. But that's not really a defense for it being setup that way in the first place, either.

 

[GBAB1973]

A lot has been written on this already. Giving Disney quasi-government powers put them in a position to compete for the same resources that other counties and government needed. The counties have pushed back, complained and even sued over the setup in the past. The information is all out there.

Enough to justify being taken over by the state? Maybe not. But that's not really a defense for it being setup that way in the first place, either.

Wouldn't those resources need to be acquired anyway whether it was the RCID or the counties that would have to provide the resources to operate the district? The lawsuits filed were often done as a means for the counties to extract something from Disney.

The only real issues recently prior to DeSantis throwing his hissy fit was largely issues tied to property assessment fights between the county appraiser and Disney. The counties pretty much admit that the set up has benefits for them as well - they receive millions in property taxes but have to provide little to no services in return. Some of the services the county does provide - such as the county sheriff - Disney reimburses them above what they pay in taxes.

The set up wasn't perfect but the reality is that other than a few hiccups here or there, the RCID worked well, ran efficiently, wasn't a burden on the county or the residents or the state. It just worked. People are now trying to re-write history here to justify the RCID being stripped from Disney control.

 

[Chi84]

A lot has been written on this already. Giving Disney quasi-government powers put them in a position to compete for the same resources that other counties and government needed. The counties have pushed back, complained and even sued over the setup in the past. The information is all out there.

Enough to justify being taken over by the state? Maybe not. But that's not really a defense for it being setup that way in the first place, either.

What resources are you referencing?