News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lentesta]

Based on case law, the way to read this from the Florida constitution:

No bill of attainder, ex post facto law or law impairing the obligation of contracts shall be passed.​

Is:

No bill of attainder shall be passed.​

​

No ex post facto law shall be passed.​

​

No law impairing the obligation of contracts shall be passed.​

In Calder v. Bull, the U.S. Supreme Court held that ex post facto laws only apply to criminal matters.

I knew punctuation was important.

 

[peter11435]

THERE WAS (practically) NOBODY ELSE IN THE COUNTY.

Sure if you consider the 6 largest county in the state by populations over 350,000 residents all to be nobody

 

[CaptainAmerica]

A special district is a nice advantage because it carves out a specific area to tax to raise the necessary funds to operate, build capital projects, etc.

Disney essentially got to set up it's own local governing body because it is a much easier financing mechanism than paying for it themselves (now they have access to cheap municipal bonds and a planning structure to approve and build necessary projects) or burdening other county taxpayers with the load of financing the massive infrastructure necessary to build out and expand the property. This also had the effect of shielding said projects from political pressure since they were funding it themselves (through the special district).

A for-profit enterprise should not have access to municipal bonds.

Either the whole place is a business and they should finance the thing through corporate debt and/or the issuance of equity, or the infrastructure is public and should be paid for by a bona fide government body.

 

[flynnibus]

THERE WAS (practically) NOBODY ELSE IN THE COUNTY.

And those that were there would have participated in the huge boon that Disney brought to the region, so of course they should have participated in the infrastructure investment costs.

So you want what you claim is a virtually non-existent population to fund the massive infrastructure build out of an entire city... in just a few years.. for something they don't even use themselves? And you think this is a good thing? Vs having the guy that needs it pay for it? Dude, listen to yourself

You're comically wrong... oh and the county had over 250k residents at the time.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sure if you consider the 6 largest county in the state by populations over 350,000 residents all to be nobody

Who needs facts

 

[peter11435]

A for-profit enterprise should not have access to municipal bonds.

Either the whole place is a business and they should finance the thing through corporate debt and/or the issuance of equity, or the infrastructure is public and should be paid for by a bona fide government body.

The company didn’t have access to municipal bonds… the district did.

The infrastructure in question is public and was paid for by a bona fide government body

 

[flynnibus]

A for-profit enterprise should not have access to municipal bonds.

Either the whole place is a business and they should finance the thing through corporate debt and/or the issuance of equity, or the infrastructure is public and should be paid for by a bona fide government body.

This was already decided by the state supreme court... deciding that the bond use was in line with public use.

Don't worry, they didn't build Cinderella Castle with any bonds.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Correct, and it's usually the Left that gets up in arms about these deals. But this time the Left is suddenly pro-corporatism because Orange Man Junior Bad.

Uhhh, no. That’s not what is happening. At all.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

A for-profit enterprise should not have access to municipal bonds.

Either the whole place is a business and they should finance the thing through corporate debt and/or the issuance of equity, or the infrastructure is public and should be paid for by a bona fide government body.

I would argue that the governance structure clearly is a municipal entity. It provides all sorts of services that a municipal entity would and charges Disney (and the other smaller property owners) fair-market rate for those services, whether it be through utility payments or taxes. Disney itself is not taking out the bonds, even if they pay the vast majority of the taxes to fund the operation of RCID.

Disney is obviously getting something out of it, as it easier to work with a local government that doesn't have the other political incentives to worry about, such as other property owners not wanting to widen roads or build more theme parks. But I would argue there isn't anything unseemly or unethical in the relationship. Disney World is quite unique in the world and there is an argument that RCID is one of the more successful examples of a special taxing district anywhere in the world.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The company didn’t have access to municipal bonds… the district did.

The infrastructure in question is public and was paid for by a bona fide government body

As I've said elsewhere, my primary objection is not to the existence of the district per se, it's to Disney's perpetual control of the district.

I understand that the district was a government body and that it was created through proper legislative means. I'm not questioning the legality. I'm questioning the morality of such a body being wholly controlled by a for-profit enterprise.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A for-profit enterprise should not have access to municipal bonds.

Either the whole place is a business and they should finance the thing through corporate debt and/or the issuance of equity, or the infrastructure is public and should be paid for by a bona fide government body.

So it’s wrong that Universal wants to pay for SunRail service instead of making the people of Volusia County pay for it?

 

[scottieRoss]

If there were bona fide residents of the district who were actual citizens with self-interest, then fine. But there weren't. The "residents" were corporate shills.

You are forgetting that corporations are people.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Interesting Tweet:




Besides everything else happening, one has to imagine the type of conversations taking place between Disney's Government Relations team and state officials.

This has been mentioned before. It’s literally the first few pages of the Comprehensive Plan.

https://www.rcid.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/2032-RCID-Comprehensive-Plan.pdf

 

[MagicHappens1971]

You are forgetting that corporations are people.

It doesn’t matter what he forgot. The “corporate shills” were still people. Residents.

 

[Tha Realest]

Interesting Tweet:




Besides everything else happening, one has to imagine the type of conversations taking place between Disney's Government Relations team and state officials.

The screenshot makes no reference to the developer agreement.

 

[peter11435]

As I've said elsewhere, my primary objection is not to the existence of the district per se, it's to Disney's perpetual control of the district.

I understand that the district was a government body and that it was created through proper legislative means. I'm not questioning the legality. I'm questioning the morality of such a body being wholly controlled by a for-profit enterprise.

Can you site an example where the power was abused? Has there been a specific incident in the last 56 years that supports yours question of morality?

What if I started buying all of the land in my city and became the sole resident and landowner… should I be stopped? My city dissolved?

If DeSantis was doing all of this rationally because he questioned the morality of the district this would be a very different discussion.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

As I've said elsewhere, my primary objection is not to the existence of the district per se, it's to Disney's perpetual control of the district.

I understand that the district was a government body and that it was created through proper legislative means. I'm not questioning the legality. I'm questioning the morality of such a body being wholly controlled by a for-profit enterprise.

I do understand this. In an ideal world, I would agree. However, I work in municipal government and rarely there is an ideal world. You balance priorities and make practical decisions, making the best judgement you can when unique situations arise without an easy, or previously dealt with, answer.

Practically, I would say RCID has worked out quite well and been a large success in local government management, taking a unique task to provide services to the largest entertainment complex in the world and doing it mostly drama-free for 50+ years. It makes sense in this instance and I think we can argue from its history that while it has been very favorable to Disney, it has been well-managed.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So it’s wrong that Universal wants to pay for SunRail service instead of making the people of Volusia County pay for it?

I'm sure Volusia County would welcome a voluntary contribution to their general fund from Comcast. But no I don't think it would be appropriate for Volusia County to cede municipal authority to a board appointed by Comcast in perpetuity that would control the rail line.

But ideally SunRail wouldn't be publicly funded in the first place so there's be no risk to Volusia or any other county teachers.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

The screenshot makes no reference to the developer agreement.

That screenshot is literally page 5 in the Comprehensive Plan that the development agreement codified.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This thread is moving faster than a Monorail.