News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

mmascari

Well-Known Member
It does not sound absurd at all. [...] There is certainly a desire to limit or eliminate the powers of local governments and centralize power from the current administration.
I didn't mean it was absurd that the current governor would want to centralize and eliminate local governments. I meant that the ability to do that without any agreement by those governed by those local governments sounds absurd.
 
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mmascari

Well-Known Member
The Florida constitution clearly states that powers can be transferred by the electors or by law.

The Florida legislature, with concurrence from the governor, have the power to transfer the powers of a special district.

From your quote "a county, municipality or special district".

Which would just makes this step one to a single unified state control of everything. No more local governments of any type. All control consolidated at the state level.

Eliminate all the villages, towns, cities, counties. Maybe they'll just keep "The Villages" to say there's something that isn't state controlled. 🤣
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
Everything I've heard on the news is about a regular session bill. I'm leaving Epcot now. Continue discussion...

The special session will reportedly begin Monday -

"The Florida Legislature will convene a special session Monday to consider a state takeover of Disney World’s Reedy Creek Improvement District."

"The bill hasn’t been filed as of Friday, but DeSantis has said he wants the state to take over control of the district and ensure that taxpayers are protected from paying the district’s debts.

The Reedy Creek reorganization will be filed as a local bill in the House and presented in Senate committees by Sen. Travis Hutson, R-Palm Coast."

 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Legislatures do this all the time.

A law that limits the right to an abortion or the right to bear arms could be viewed as an attempt to consolidate power, an attempt to usurp power away from a local government or the people.

Nearly all of us don’t like what’s being done to Disney. It just feels wrong.

What are the remedies Disney can seek? They’ve already (publicly) lost the governor and legislature. This means they have to go to the judiciary.

In this case, what state constitution or federal laws protect them?

This feels like a violation of Disney’s First Amendment rights. But there is a great deal of case law on the subject and it may be more complicated than we think.

I’m sure Disney lawyers have already poured over this. I’m sure that Disney’s sizable contingent of lobbyists are working this behind the scenes.

It could very well be that Disney has already successfully introduced language into the new legislation to make them comfortable with it. Or it could be that Disney is ready to pounce once the legislation is passed.

We’ll find out shortly.
I’m still not sure how the Governor could legally change the makeup of the board without any vote. It may be possible to pass legislation that would now allow that and it may be that in court a judge would rule that they do have this power and it doesn’t violate the state constitution. If that is the case then I assume Disney will live with the consequences and when the governor’s hand picked board attempts to cause damages to the company they will take that to court each time it occurs. Disney has every right to appeal tax assessments and sue the district for poor services.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Everything I've heard on the news is about a regular session bill. I'm leaving Epcot now. Continue discussion...

I was going by what was said in this thread and it turns out to be the case...
The special session will reportedly begin Monday -

"The Florida Legislature will convene a special session Monday to consider a state takeover of Disney World’s Reedy Creek Improvement District."

"The bill hasn’t been filed as of Friday, but DeSantis has said he wants the state to take over control of the district and ensure that taxpayers are protected from paying the district’s debts.

The Reedy Creek reorganization will be filed as a local bill in the House and presented in Senate committees by Sen. Travis Hutson, R-Palm Coast."

 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I don’t agree with the first part.

The Florida constitution clearly states that powers can be transferred by the electors or by law.

The Florida legislature, with concurrence from the governor, have the power to transfer the powers of a special district.

I agree with the second part.

This is very scary and shows one of the pitfalls of granting the government too much power.
Isn’t that a circular reference though? The constitution says control can be transferred by an act of law, but that act of law still has to be constitutional. They cannot just pass a law that says we want to attack Disney so we are taking away their special district. The by law reference still requires an actual law which would apply to all local governments not just RCID.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
"The Florida Legislature will convene a special session Monday to consider a state takeover of Disney World’s Reedy Creek Improvement District."

"The bill hasn’t been filed as of Friday, but DeSantis has said he wants the state to take over control of the district and ensure that taxpayers are protected from paying the district’s debts.

The Reedy Creek reorganization will be filed as a local bill in the House and presented in Senate committees by Sen. Travis Hutson, R-Palm Coast."
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
The truth is that it is Never good for one party to have complete control. Always better to have 2 parties that have to find common ground to get things done for betterment of the people they govern. I am originally from Chicago (Cook County) and the shannigans going on the the Reedy District is small potatoes to what goes on in Illinois. Heck, a few years ago the governor tried to auction off a vacant US Senate seat to the highest bidder, got caught on tape and ended spending 10 years in prison for that stunt. Illinois does not scrub their voting roles, there are documented cases of people who have been dead 50 years who have never missed voting in an election cycle. So please if I do not seem to think the transfer of power of Reedy Creek District is as big a deal as many on this forum.
 
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mikejs78

Well-Known Member
The Florida constitution clearly states that powers can be transferred by the electors or by law.

That's not what that clause means. It doesn't mean that the legislature can pass a law in lieu of a referendum, but rather that they can pass a law that creates an alternative means instead of a referendum. And right now no such law exists.


Otherwise why would the first part of that clause say that the legislature can transfer with approval of the electors? It seems circular.
 

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
I was reading the Orlando Sentinel article, and suddenly thought of a possible long game scenario.

They've managed through lobbying (and pointing out the reality of the situation) to water the whole thing down to the Governor appointing the board and potentially having to take over some debt (probably the parking garages).

WDW is going to be around a long time. Desantis isn't. They've been a very effective influence in the legislature for over 50 years.

Just give him the win now, keep their heads down, and turn the money taps back on. 3 years from now, new Governor, this all gets fixed. Everybody moves on.
 

Basil of Baker Street

Well-Known Member
I was reading the Orlando Sentinel article, and suddenly thought of a possible long game scenario.

They've managed through lobbying (and pointing out the reality of the situation) to water the whole thing down to the Governor appointing the board and potentially having to take over some debt (probably the parking garages).

WDW is going to be around a long time. Desantis isn't. They've been a very effective influence in the legislature for over 50 years.

Just give him the win now, keep their heads down, and turn the money taps back on. 3 years from now, new Governor, this all gets fixed. Everybody moves on.
I think that is the play as well. Lay low and move on. It really could be that simple.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I was reading the Orlando Sentinel article, and suddenly thought of a possible long game scenario.

They've managed through lobbying (and pointing out the reality of the situation) to water the whole thing down to the Governor appointing the board and potentially having to take over some debt (probably the parking garages).

WDW is going to be around a long time. Desantis isn't. They've been a very effective influence in the legislature for over 50 years.

Just give him the win now, keep their heads down, and turn the money taps back on. 3 years from now, new Governor, this all gets fixed. Everybody moves on.
The debt is already held by the District. There’s nothing for them to take over.

This issue is not just being driven by the governor. This was very much started by the legislature.
 

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
The debt is already held by the District. There’s nothing for them to take over.

This issue is not just being driven by the governor. This was very much started by the legislature.
I was responding to the $700m number being thrown around - assuming it was part of a deal - but more Googling suggests that's just the amount the district holds in unsecured/non bond encumbered debt.

I do stand by what I said though, Disney whipped the legislature into carving them out of the social media bill. They can change things once they resume their usual contributions.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
What makes a law in Florida constitutional? Presumably, it's constitutional if it's passed by both houses of legislation and signed by the governor.
Wait, so then how did every law that a state of federal court rule to be unconstitutionally happen? Someone slipped it into the law books and didn't tell anyone?

A bill becomes a law when it is passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. The courts determine if said law is constitutional.
 

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
That’s truly sad in the boring somewhat tasteless cuisine of Central Florida when Tiger eats some of his meals at Dennys
Do you even live here. If you did you would know Central Florida doesn’t have boring tasteless cuisine. We have some of the most diverse restaurants and eateries in the state.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
People are justifiably upset at what Florida is doing to Disney. (Except apparently the FCID fire department, who are in favor of this.)

But the thing is, is the board of supervisors who will be appointed by the governor really going to try to screw Disney? Are they going to say "no" when Disney wants to build something? Are they going to say "no" when Disney wants the district to increase the millage to pay for another infrastructure project? The current RCID board of supervisors already have a reputation of requiring higher construction standards than local counties. Is the new board really going to make it even harder and more expensive for Disney to build?

It just doesn't make sense from the governor's perspective. He wants the political win and once the new board of supervisors take their seat, his win is complete. Pounding on Disney after the fact will just come off as petty and will drive away the voters he needs to win a general election.
That’s the whole purpose. It’s ongoing control. The board of supervisors can make things difficult when Disney engages in actions the state leaders do not like and those actions don’t have to just be related to public opposition to legislation. Anything can be a cause for punishment because that’s the point.

I'm simply asking you to find a section of the Florida constitution that the legislature has violated.

It's a lengthy document and I'm too lazy to read all of it. :)

I hope you can find something because that's sure to lead to an interesting and informative discussion.

Again, I feel Disney was wronged. But I'm also being realistic when I evaluate what legal grounds Disney has to fight this.
You have been given multiple references, and you just keep waving them away as able to be undone on a whim. You say you haven’t read it but are certain you’ve found constitutional loopholes that the Office of Program Policy Analysis and Government Accountability and hundreds of other lawyers have completely missed.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Do you even live here. If you did you would know Central Florida doesn’t have boring tasteless cuisine. We have some of the most diverse restaurants and eateries in the state.
Friends and family and I visit frequently. Doesn't compare to the more diverse better cuisine in Miami.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
To be clear, these changes of the law are not being “undone on a whim.”

They require both houses of legislature to pass the approve the bill, and the governor to sign it into law. This is not a whim. This is the well-defined process to change state law.

What can Disney do to fight this when the state legislature is overwhelmingly Republican and hostile to “woke” Disney. When the governor is trying to score points with the Republican Party in his run for president?

One protection that Disney has is to appeal to the judiciary, which means finding ways what the State of Florida is doing violates the state’s or U.S. Constitution.

I’ve already suggested that they are loopholes in the Florida constitution that allows them to replace RCID.

I would love it if someone could find something in the Florida constitution that Disney can use to fight those loopholes.
We’re right back to constitutions being meaningless. The whole point of the constitution is because the legislative process should not be all powerful, that it should have limits. We’re talking about a law and pending legislation both introduced by special session with almost no prior notice, one rushed through and another expected to be pushed through quickly. If that’s not a whim then you really are reaching for excuses.

You have been given multiple sections.

It seems incredibly extraordinary that someone who has not even read the entire constitution has discovered that the entire thing is actually self-negating. Decades of jurisprudence and precedent rendered meaningless because generations of Florida lawyers, scholars and judges didn’t realize that the legislature was actually empowered to do pretty much anything they desire because it is “provided by law.”
 

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