News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[LAKid53]

THEY SURE ARE
And TWDC and RCID are totally separate entities,

If you don't like the state's tax laws and incentives, criticize the state government, not a private corporation.

 

[LAKid53]

Agreed, it's only half true that TWDC and RCID are totally separate entities....

One was created by an act of the Florida Legislature and has taxing authority as a local government. The other is a private corporation. Learn the difference.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Agreed, it's only half true that TWDC and RCID are totally separate entities....

I would agree with you if we were just casually talking on the street about RCID.

But this is a legal/governance issue and involves the most blatant political retribution in modern times…

So honestly…you gotta stop

 

[Disstevefan1]

I would agree with you if we were just casually talking on the street about RCID.

But this is a legal/governance issue and involves the most blatant political retribution in modern times…

So honestly…you gotta stop

TWDC did it right.
On paper TWDC and RCID are indeed totally separate entities and that documentation will (unfortunately) stand up in court.
The reality is different. TWDC totally controls RCID. It's an unspoken truth..
If folks think otherwise, they are not thinking in reality.

 

[LAKid53]

TWDC did it right.
On paper TWDC and RCID are indeed totally separate entities and that documentation will (unfortunately) stand up in court.
The reality is different. TWDC totally controls RCID. It's an unspoken truth..
If folks think otherwise, they are not thinking in reality.

Why do you say unfortunately? The existence of RCID is a win for both WDW AND Orange County, as the county does not have to provide services to approximately 40 square miles within its borders. RCID does that by assessing a 13.5741 millage rate on Disney property. That millage rate will disappear if RCID is dissolved, as under FL law, counties are capped on what they can levy. Currently, the City of Orlando millage rate is 6.65, in comparison.

 

[networkpro]

Why do you say unfortunately? The existence of RCID is a win for both WDW AND Orange County, as the county does not have to provide services to approximately 40 square miles within its borders. RCID does that by assessing a 13.5741 millage rate on Disney property. That millage rate will disappear if RCID is dissolved, as under FL law, counties are capped on what they can levy. Currently, the City of Orlando millage rate is 6.65, in comparison.

That's the sleight of hand that Disney has been doing since RCID was created, they tax themselves to support the infrastructure they want on their own property without having to pay using after tax dollars.

 

[LAKid53]

That's the sleight of hand that Disney has been doing since RCID was created, they tax themselves to support the infrastructure they want on their own property without having to pay using after tax dollars.

And? Have you ever looked at a corporate income statement? Do you know what EBT is?

If Reedy Creek didn't exist, WDW would be paying Orange County for those services out of adjusted revenues.

WDW still pays taxes to both the state AND Orange County.

What bloody difference does it make WHERE on TWDC's income statement those expenses fall?

 

[GoofGoof]

That's the sleight of hand that Disney has been doing since RCID was created, they tax themselves to support the infrastructure they want on their own property without having to pay using after tax dollars.

That makes no sense. The tax they pay to RCID is real estate tax not income tax. If they spent $1M to repair a road directly as opposed to having RCID foot the bill and then charge them $1M in tax they come back to the same $1M of deductible expense that would be used to reduce revenue. Since federal and state income tax is on net income their tax position is no different in either scenario.

 

[lazyboy97o]

TWDC did it right.
On paper TWDC and RCID are indeed totally separate entities and that documentation will (unfortunately) stand up in court.
The reality is different. TWDC totally controls RCID. It's an unspoken truth..
If folks think otherwise, they are not thinking in reality.

Disney controls the District because they are the major landowner. When they sell land to other entities they get a say. If they sold all of the land then those landowners would be in charge. It isn’t specifically linked to Disney.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Why do you say unfortunately? The existence of RCID is a win for both WDW AND Orange County, as the county does not have to provide services to approximately 40 square miles within its borders. RCID does that by assessing a 13.5741 millage rate on Disney property. That millage rate will disappear if RCID is dissolved, as under FL law, counties are capped on what they can levy. Currently, the City of Orlando millage rate is 6.65, in comparison.

I guess I am getting triggered by the (fake?) news that the 1 to 2 billion bond debt will be dumped upon Orange and Osceola counties when RCID is dissolved?

 

[GoofGoof]

I guess I am getting triggered by the (fake?) news that the 1 to 2 billion bond debt will be dumped upon Orange and Osceola counties when RCID is dissolved?

If nothing changes and no lawsuits block this bill from going into effect next June the assets as well as the liabilities of RCID transfer to the counties. The counties also will be responsible for providing services to Disney that are currently covered by RCID. That’s all fact.



Edit: if RCID did not exist today the local tax payers in Orange and Osceola Counties would either pay much more in taxes, have reduced services or likely both. RCID provides services the counties don’t have to pay for for a land owner in those counties. Those same services for Universal or Sea World are paid for out of the county budget funded by taxpayers.

 

[peter11435]

It’s not fake news. If nothing changes and no lawsuits block this bill from going into effect next June the assets as well as the liabilities of RCID transfer to the counties. The counties also will be responsible for providing services to Disney that are currently covered by RCID. That’s all fact.

The debt being dumped on taxpayers is not the fault of RCID or Disney. If the arrangement continues it would continue to benefit taxpayers greatly. Your beef is with the Governor who is fighting a personal and petty battle with a company that has been very beneficial to the local community. You are collateral damage in his ego driven attack.

We both said the same thing at the same time. But yours is much better.

 

[UNCgolf]

I guess I am getting triggered by the (fake?) news that the 1 to 2 billion bond debt will be dumped upon Orange and Osceola counties when RCID is dissolved?

Is this fake news just created to stir up folks and get them mad at DeSantis?

The most recent news suggests DeSantis etc. realize they can't dissolve RCID without a lot of problems so that may not be an issue. It looks like the current ploy is for the State of Florida to take control over RCID as opposed to dissolving it.

 

[GoofGoof]

We both said the same thing at the same time. But yours is much better.

I think the key takeaway for local taxpayers is that the existence of RCID has actually kept their taxes artificially lower for 50+ years because Disney pays their full share of the county real estate taxes but doesn’t receive some of the services most other taxpayers would receive. It basically results in a tax discount for other land owners. If RCID just goes away then so does the discount. So its not an increase in taxes but a loss of a discount.

As far as the debt goes, that was used to pay for past projects done by RCID so not only would local taxpayers have to pay for future services to Disney they would be covering debt payments to pay back bonds used on those past projects.

 

[mmascari]

I would rephrase this slightly differently.

The debt being dumped on taxpayers is not the fault of RCID or Disney. If the arrangement continues it would continue to benefit taxpayers greatly.

Just saying "taxpayers" implies that the RCID debt isn't already paid for by taxpayers. It falls into the trap of people pretending that Disney and RCID are the same thing, that RCID debts are Disney debts.

The debt being dumped from the RCID taxpayers onto the larger group of all county taxpayers is not the fault of RCID or Disney. It's the direct result of one government taxing authority being dissolved and absorbed into another. While they absorb the debts and assets, they are not gaining the taxing authority. The taxing authority of the dissolved entity is disappearing, it's dissolved.


That's much harder, clearly not as elegant a sentence and a freaking disaster to type out. We shouldn't have to write that. It's a sneaky trap.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

TWDC did it right.
On paper TWDC and RCID are indeed totally separate entities and that documentation will (unfortunately) stand up in court.
The reality is different. TWDC totally controls RCID. It's an unspoken truth..
If folks think otherwise, they are not thinking in reality.

What everyone is telling you…and you’re not listening trying to be “cheeky”…is that this is a regulatory/legislative issue and it won’t be argued by anyone shuffling into court and saying “come on, judge…everyone KNOWS Disney runs the place”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the key takeaway for local taxpayers is that the existence of RCID has actually kept their taxes artificially lower for 50+ years because Disney pays their full share of the county real estate taxes but doesn’t receive some of the services most other taxpayers would receive. It basically results in a tax discount for other land owners. If RCID just goes away then so does the discount. So its not an increase in taxes but a loss of a discount.

As far as the debt goes, that was used to pay for past projects done by RCID so not only would local taxpayers have to pay for future services to Disney they would be covering debt payments to pay back bonds used on those past projects.

Of course this all goes away as a local taxpayer issue if RCID continues. Ball is in your court Ron. If I were running against this guy in Nov I’d be running non-stop adds in Orange and Osceola Counties to inform the public of the bill they will be footing if he stays in power. He won’t win those counties anyway but there’s no electoral college in state governor elections. A quick web search shows Ron got 219K votes in those counties. He won by 32K votes. So if even 15% flipped on him that would have swayed the last election. I know the demographics have changed in 4 years but the point is he cannot just throw away those votes which is why he is so vocal about claiming there will be no negative impact to taxpayers and also why he wants to wait until after the election to reveal his plan. A smart opponent would force his hand.

That’s exactly it.

The existence of RCID is better for everyone…
It’s being used as a tool to garner political attention/money.

Nothing more. It’s a stunt…that’s it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would rephrase this slightly differently.

Just saying "taxpayers" implies that the RCID debt isn't already paid for by taxpayers. It falls into the trap of people pretending that Disney and RCID are the same thing, that RCID debts are Disney debts.

The debt being dumped from the RCID taxpayers onto the larger group of all county taxpayers is not the fault of RCID or Disney. It's the direct result of one government taxing authority being dissolved and absorbed into another. While they absorb the debts and assets, they are not gaining the taxing authority. The taxing authority of the dissolved entity is disappearing, it's dissolved.


That's much harder, clearly not as elegant a sentence and a freaking disaster to type out. We shouldn't have to write that. It's a sneaky trap.

But RCID has largely financed itself through high value bonds that allow them to structure it on more advantageous terms than Orange or Osceola county

Private people profit off it…Disney makes more money this way…it costs less.

 

[mmascari]

As far as the debt goes, that was used to pay for past projects done by RCID so not only would local taxpayers have to pay for future services to Disney they would be covering debt payments to pay back bonds used on those past projects.

As far as the debt goes, that was used to pay for past projects done by RCID so not only would local taxpayers have to pay for future public services within the current RCID boundary, they would be covering debt payments to pay back bonds used on those past projects.


They're not really services for Disney. They're public services provided within RCID. It just so happens that most of those are related to Disney as the largest land owner.

When someone drives down Buena Vista Dr, Osceola Pkwy, World Dr, they're not Disney. When water run off doesn't wash out those roads so someone can drive down them, they're not Disney. When someone's car catches fire and the fire fighters put it out, they're not Disney. When someone calls an ambulance, they're not Disney. They're someone in the public using a public service.


It's unfortunate that we need to spell that all out. But, there's clearly people that don't understand that. When we say to Disney, it feeds into their incorrect perspective.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As far as the debt goes, that was used to pay for past projects done by RCID so not only would local taxpayers have to pay for future public services within the current RCID boundary, they would be covering debt payments to pay back bonds used on those past projects.


They're not really services for Disney. They're public services provided within RCID. It just so happens that most of those are related to Disney as the largest land owner.

When someone drives down Buena Vista Dr, Osceola Pkwy, World Dr, they're not Disney. When water run off doesn't wash out those roads so someone can drive down them, they're not Disney. When someone's car catches fire and the fire fighters put it out, they're not Disney. When someone calls an ambulance, they're not Disney. They're someone in the public using a public service.


It's unfortunate that we need to spell that all out. But, there's clearly people that don't understand that. When we say to Disney, it feeds into their incorrect perspective.

Well it’s 90% pro Disney/travel supporting

And that travel makes a lot of money for every Florida resident in some ways