News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's generous.

Trying to get people to bet the “over”

 

[Disstevefan1]

Right…but…

…I give it a 5% chance

From your lips to the mouses ears…

 

[Disstevefan1]

Taxpayers will usually pay no matter how much the language they are not going to is sugar coated.

I guess they will find out; if there is a sudden increase in property taxes…

 

[lazyboy97o]

I guess they will find out; if there is a sudden increase in property taxes…

Again, there are laws and procedures the counties must follow. Any increase will
Not be a sudden surprise. It’s also why the odds of an injunction are very high, this needs to be figured out before making people pay.

 

[flynnibus]

I was previously looking at real estate very close to wdw.

Pro-tip.., don’t use this thread to drive life choices.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I guess they will find out; if there is a sudden increase in property taxes…

I’m not sure a lot of people would even notice, I just googled it and the annual property tax rate in Orlando is .87%, with a median annual cost of just under $2000, if the rumored 25% increase happens most people would see their bill go up about $40 a month.

I don’t think that will happen but it’s not like New York or Chicago were the rates are already 2-3% and people already pay $5k-10k+ a year, a 25% increase there would mean an increase of $500-1000 a month and likely drive people out of their homes but $40 is manageable for the vast majority.

 

[JoeCamel]

I’m not sure a lot of people would even notice, I just googled it and the annual property tax rate in Orlando is .87%, with a median annual cost of just under $2000, if the rumored 25% increase happens most people would see their bill go up about $40 a month.

I don’t think that will happen but it’s not like New York or Chicago were the rates are already 2-3% and people already pay $5k-10k+ a year, a 25% increase there would mean an increase of $500-1000 a month and likely drive people out of their homes but $40 is manageable for the vast majority.

They all have the same costs to some degree. I moved out of Florida to the mid south and while my property taxes are much lower there are many more fees and a couple of services missing from what I got in FL. As you say Chicagoland pays 2 - 3 times the FL rate but FL makes most of it up in fees.
The insurance is the real problem though, mine dropped to half what I could get in FL and sometimes I couldn't get insurance at all. I went three years naked.
I agree most would not feel much pain from an increase but many would. This is quite an exercise speculating what would happen even though I think it has a less than slim chance of happening.

 

[GoofGoof]

Florida even Central FL have diversified with aerospace and defense companies and jobs. A number are filled by highly educated professionals and experienced , moving to FL to work these well paid positions. It at least is a start.

Exactly. Disney cannot move WDW and hotel operators cannot move the Gulf of Mexico or the Atlantic Ocean. However, aerospace, defense and pharmaceutical companies can move anywhere. If the state continues to push an anti-business agenda where tax credits and economic incentives are revoked on a whim the bigger risk is not “losing Disney“ as an employer in the state but losing other companies in more economically diverse industries.

 

[GoofGoof]

Nope, they won't. Disney isn't hurting. The parks are full to the brim, and Dr Strange just opened as the 11th highest grossing domestic open of all time.

Disney will not lose Reedy Creek (legally, they can't).

They will lose copyright on steamboat Willie, that was a foregone conclusion before this whole mess. But as has been pointed out before, they own the trademark on Mickey so the copyright expiration will have limited impact. Any other copyright bills won't happen.

I know the copyright stuff is probably off topic, but I will say this one thing on it, people really don’t think for themselves anymore. They just parrot inaccurate stuff they hear on social media or cable news. As you point out the trademark on Mickey goes on forever as long as the company is still using Mickey commercially. So when the copyright on Steamboat Willie runs out I can write a story or make a YouTube video with the black and white Steamboat Willie Mickey as a character in it (and only that version of Mickey) but I cannot legally sell a Steamboat Willie Mickey t-shirt or sell any product containing Mickey Mouse due to the trademark. The impact to Disney is not as dramatic as some would suggest. The winners in this are again the lawyers who will be issuing a large number of cease and desist orders for uneducated people who will be illegally selling the Mickey Mouse image because they heard the protection expired.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Florida even Central FL have diversified with aerospace and defense companies and jobs. A number are filled by highly educated professionals and experienced , moving to FL to work these well paid positions. It at least is a start.

Dude…do you live in Orlando? Have you ever? It’s a Tourist town. Because there are “some” other things…doesn’t make it not a tourist town.

I’m not sure a lot of people would even notice, I just googled it and the annual property tax rate in Orlando is .87%, with a median annual cost of just under $2000, if the rumored 25% increase happens most people would see their bill go up about $40 a month.

I don’t think that will happen but it’s not like New York or Chicago were the rates are already 2-3% and people already pay $5k-10k+ a year, a 25% increase there would mean an increase of $500-1000 a month and likely drive people out of their homes but $40 is manageable for the vast majority.

Florida is not “high income”
Compare it to LA of Chicago all you want…but it doesn’t equate.

How about Boston? San Fran? DC?

 

[maxairmike]

I’m not sure a lot of people would even notice, I just googled it and the annual property tax rate in Orlando is .87%, with a median annual cost of just under $2000, if the rumored 25% increase happens most people would see their bill go up about $40 a month.

I don’t think that will happen but it’s not like New York or Chicago were the rates are already 2-3% and people already pay $5k-10k+ a year, a 25% increase there would mean an increase of $500-1000 a month and likely drive people out of their homes but $40 is manageable for the vast majority.

The number I see is a little higher, at an average of .94% for Orange County. Although if you're buying new, I don't think I've seen property taxes coming in under $3500-4000/yr, but that's partly the result of CDDs and other ad-valorem lines and not always millage so the monthly increase would probably be about $50. Still, this should absolutely not fall on the county taxpayers, and the issues with MSTUs have already been hashed out. Hopefully this really does go nowhere,

 

[Lilofan]

Dude…do you live in Orlando? Have you ever? It’s a Tourist town. Because there are “some” other things…doesn’t make it not a tourist town.

Florida is not “high income”
Compare it to LA of Chicago all you want…but it doesn’t equate.

How about Boston? San Fran? DC?

It is a tourist town but companies moving in with high paying roles of staff relocating to FL ( aerospace, defense, aviation ) doesn't make it a bad thing. At the very least small business will move in to cater to them and or current small business step up their game. These folks are used to certain tastes and services.

 

[kalel8145]

Pro-tip.., don’t use this thread to drive life choices.

That's good advice for any thread on these boards

 

[mikejs78]

Attorney William Sanchez, who is running for U.S. Senate and who originally filed the lawsuit, said that he intends to refile the lawsuit by May 16.

Typically, a lawsuit must be filed by the party being harmed, and the harm has to be actual or imminent.

These plaintiffs can’t file on behalf of Disney while any tax increase is presumably months away, so it will be interesting to read what grounds they sue on.

This strikes me more as a candidate for office trying to get publicity for his campaign than a serious legal challenge (of which there are many options).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It is a tourist town but companies moving in with high paying roles of staff relocating to FL ( aerospace, defense, aviation ) doesn't make it a bad thing. At the very least small business will move in to cater to them and or current small business step up their game. These folks are used to certain tastes and services.

Yeah…that’s what the chamber of commerce likes to say…

But if you dig into their numbers the town is still like 80% driven back to tourism. All roads lead back to the ticket booths of Rome.

And like all of Florida, the vast majority of the “money” that moves in is out of the workforce and has limited need for a lot of things as in northern cities.

 

[Lilofan]

Yeah…that’s what the chamber of commerce likes to say…

But if you dig into their numbers the town is still like 80% driven back to tourism. All roads lead back to the ticket booths of Rome.

And like all of Florida, the vast majority of the “money” that moves in is out of the workforce and has limited need for a lot of things as in northern cities.

A lady from Colombia told me a story years ago that lives in Central FL. She said some of the money that moves into the area from other parts buy for example small businesses “managed “ by multiple owners. The businesses are hardly seen as booming or busy but what they declare and pay taxes on is on record profits every year, washing money 101.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yeah…that’s what the chamber of commerce likes to say…

But if you dig into their numbers the town is still like 80% driven back to tourism. All roads lead back to the ticket booths of Rome.

And like all of Florida, the vast majority of the “money” that moves in is out of the workforce and has limited need for a lot of things as in northern cities.

This is true, but there has been an effort made for years now to diversify as much as possible in the state overall. It’s never a great idea to have your entire economy so dependent on one industry, especially one like travel and tourism that is very volatile and very prone to downturns when there is a macro economic blip. The other issue is most of the jobs are lower paying, service type jobs. Attracting industries like aerospace and pharmaceuticals is appealing because they bring in higher paying, more stable jobs. The point of all of this is that this “attack” against TWDC is eye opening for these other employers potentially looking to move facilities or jobs to FL. Other industries are not as tied physically to the state and many states offer tax breaks and pro-business policies without the political uncertainty. It’s hard to commit to multi-year investments when things are so unstable.

It’s certainly the prerogative of state lawmakers to prioritize other issues over the economy, but that comes at a price. An economic slowdown is coming for the whole country, likely a recession. Nobody knows how bad a slowdown or how long it will last but we do know from history that travel and tourism are hit first when the economy slows. FL has a crisis with homeowners insurance already and a major housing bubble primed to burst too. Now is the time to be supporting the economy and protecting the workers but it seems there may be an attitude that it’s too good to fail and the good times will last forever.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A lady from Colombia told me a story years ago that lives in Central FL. She said some of the money that moves into the area from other parts buy for example small businesses “managed “ by multiple owners. The businesses are hardly seen as booming or busy but what they declare and pay taxes on is on record profits every year, washing money 101.

Well…it’s not “illegal” if congress allows it.

Florida was built as a tax shelter. Because it was insufferable hot/humid and why else would you tolerate it? AC changed all that…If it can keep up (unlike this week)

I don’t have a problem with that…they cater to the low infrastructure/weakened heart muscle crowd. The net effect is when you combine the tourists it always depresses labor and relative wealth. It is what it is.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is true, but there has been an effort made for years now to diversify as much as possible in the state overall. It’s never a great idea to have your entire economy so dependent on one industry, especially one like travel and tourism that is very volatile and very prone to downturns when there is a macro economic blip. The other issue is most of the jobs are lower paying, service type jobs. Attracting industries like aerospace and pharmaceuticals is appealing because they bring in higher paying, more stable jobs. The point of all of this is that this “attack” against TWDC is eye opening for these other employers potentially looking to move facilities or jobs to FL. Other industries are not as tied physically to the state and many states offer tax breaks and pro-business policies without the political uncertainty. It’s hard to commit to multi-year investments when things are so unstable.

It’s certainly the prerogative of state lawmakers to prioritize other issues over the economy, but that comes at a price. An economic slowdown is coming for the whole country, likely a recession. Nobody knows how bad a slowdown or how long it will last but we do know from history that travel and tourism are hit first when the economy slows. FL has a crisis with homeowners insurance already and a major housing bubble primed to burst too. Now is the time to be supporting the economy and protecting the workers but it seems there may be an attitude that it’s too good to fail and the good times will last forever.

I accept that…they have been doing that for along time.

But how do they do it? Tax shelters and the promise of low labor costs.

Same old hook.


But let’s zoom out and take a look at the litmus test: it’s been a ridiculous 14 years since a recession other than a 7 week government controlled hiccup…

So when/if one hits…what’s gonna happen in Florida?

I think it won’t surprise much. That is how you know “how far they’ve come”? Always.

 

[GoofGoof]

I accept that…they have been doing that for along time.

But how do they do it? Tax shelters and the promise of low labor costs.

Same old hook.


But let’s zoom out and take a look at the litmus test: it’s been a ridiculous 14 years since a recession other than a 7 week government controlled hiccup…

So when/if one hits…what’s gonna happen in Florida?

I think it won’t surprise much. That is how you know “how far they’ve come”? Always.

I’d say the appeal is (1) low tax and or available tax credits, (2) low labor cost and (3) in the recent past a political culture that was very pro-business. If you potentially go after tax credits or “special incentives” for certain companies you are losing part or all of benefits #1 and #3. There are lots of states that offer low labor costs so it’s difficult to compete on that one alone.

I don’t disagree on your last point. I think some people are being very short sighted and looking at 2020 and saying that a recession is no big deal but that was not at all a traditional recession. Could be a bad scene if a full blown recession breaks out.