News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[rio]

Whenever I come across an action like this, I think “what if the opposite occurred, or if someone who is opposite the perpetrator did the same, could I still support it”

Would you feel it was ok if Obama (assuming he had the authority) took away the RCID for speaking out this exact piece of legislation?
Would you feel ok if the RCID was taken away because Disney didn’t support LGBT rights ENOUGH?

I’ll leave other scenarios at these. But if you didn’t say yes to both of these, then you fundamentally do not support what the governor is doing-you’re just providing an excuse to justify the behavior to yourself.

 

[Brian]

Sloganing is one thing. Accusing people of being groomers is a whole other thing - bordering on slander.

I'd say that being called various "phobe"s and "ist"s without merit also borders on slander.

 

[mikejs78]

I'd say that being called various "phobe"s and "ist"s without merit also borders on slander.

I would agree with that. Our political discourse has gotten too hung up on name calling than actually discussing things of substance.

 

[Brian]

I would agree with that. Our political discourse has gotten too hung up on name calling than actually discussing things of substance.

Absolutely. Not to mention (at the risk of sounding corny), to paraphrase Benjamin Franklin in The American Adventure: "We are more alike than we are different."

 

[Andrew C]

Sure it’s not proven in the courts yet, but can you honestly say you are comfortable with a Governor punishing a corporation for speaking out against him? Just curious what your thoughts are since we’ve had some pretty level headed back and forth on other topics. IMHO whatever side people come down on with the original bill there should be a great deal of concern over the aspect of government retaliation. Even if the courts rule it’s technically legal that doesn’t mean it’s a good direction to head.

Ehh. Tough one and I really don’t have a clear opinion to be honest. In principle, I support dissolving the district. I have felt that way for a number of years. But of course this bill is a response to Disney’s response to the previous bill. Whether that is a violation of anything, I have no idea. I wouldn’t be surprised either way. Do Florida’s actions sit well with me? Not 100%. The escalation to this was probably unnecessary. slightly concerning. But I don’t see this as a new direction. This is more than 20 years in the making with contributions from many groups. And to frame it as disney simply exercising speech isn’t exactly honest imo. They consistency throw around their political weight and they have a lot of it. Tried to do the same thing in Georgia. They wanted to play the game and it not them. And now we pretend like they are helpless little victims? They aren’t. Doesn’t mean I don’t believe that corporations don’t have a right to get involved in politics or voice opinions. They do. But where does the line of protection end is what I’m interested in. Citizens United set a certain precedent and we will see where this goes.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

That’s exactly what’s happening everywhere in the country. If a teacher is teaching far left or right or subjects that arent curriculum or go against code of the school and districts, they are fired. It happens it seems monthly you hear about it. Was that way back in the 70’s when i went to school and also when my kids went in the 90’s. Nothings changed on thst front. Your always going to have a loose cannon on one side or tge other abd they ade usually dealt with quickly. We dont need legislation using “code” words like the one we see and try to make it like its a problem running rampant. Now Disney says a few things about it and we have a thread running crazy here. Lets all see this for what it is. Lets open our eyes and call out bad things and mostly likely illegal no matter who is sponsoring them.
I never thought ,as a country, that we can hardly find any common ground on even things right in front of us.

Politics aside... Most schools have zero tolerance for some offenses. If a teacher is convicted of a crime, they are probably not going to be allowed to continue teaching, especially if the crime involved drugs or sexual misconduct.

Also, students today tend to be very vocal. At the slightest whiff of anything they deem inappropriate- they are not silent. Especially at the middle and high school levels.

Teachers are strictly bound in some ways. They can't show an R-rated film, for example.

Discussing race, sexuality and religion have also long been fraught subjects to discuss in the classroom. In some contexts they can be discussed, but parents have long had the ability to object.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Another component. Let’s say DeSantis successfully finds a way to increase Disney’s taxes to fund his mistake. If taxes for DVC properties increases that would be passed on to members in the form of their annual dues. Taxes are already a component in annual dues. So now that’s potentially another quarter of a million people negatively effected.

Negatively impacted AND additional parties to a lawsuit. DVC owners would absolutely demand that DVC management pursue legal remedies.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I have repeatedly stated, and will state again: DeSantis said he has a plan, but he hasn't given a plan. I agree he needs to give a plan, and he should have had a plan from the beginning.

Now that I've given that qualifier, hopefully we can focus on the issue I've been trying to highlight: when you present a decidedly partisan individual, it is the media's obligation to present the other side of the argument. The individual consuming the information will then decide, like you and I both have in this present situation, what to believe.

When the media at large makes a deliberate decision to omit the statements made by the "other side" of the argument, they are displaying bias and doing a disservice to the consumers of their reporting.

HB 3C’s House sponsor, State Rep. Randy Fine (R), admitted on Wednesday he had not met with anyonefrom Disney, RCID, or Orange or Osceola County government to discuss the impact that repealing RCID might have before putting the bill forward.



Further, the latest “statement from Tallahassee uses vague language about increased taxes, that it’s neither the “understanding” or “expectation” that taxes will increase for citizens.

 

[castlecake2.0]

I don’t understand why people think the RCID is so evil? What has it done in the last 55 years other than fully support its mission?

 

[Brian]

HB 3C’s House sponsor, State Rep. Randy Fine (R), admitted on Wednesday he had not met with anyonefrom Disney, RCID, or Orange or Osceola County government to discuss the impact that repealing RCID might have before putting the bill forward.



Further, the latest “statement from Tallahassee uses vague language about increased taxes, that it’s neither the “understanding” or “expectation” that taxes will increase for citizens.


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I have read your post several times over, and I have yet to be able to figure out what your point is.

 

[Brian]

I don’t understand why people think the RCID is so evil? What has it done in the last 55 years other than fully support its mission?

Personally, I'm mad at them because they didn't build their much-ballyhooed nuclear power plant.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I have read your post several times over, and I have yet to be able to figure out what your point is.

The point: the sponsor of the bill did no research to see what the effects would be, and as a result, certainly cannot have any concrete info as to what the solution will be to resolve the issues.

The workload alone to untangle the legalities of RCID and rewrite the regulations are tremendous, and can’t be taken on with the staff that exists in either counties currently.

 

[Brian]

The point: the sponsor of the bill did no research to see what the effects would be, and as a result, certainly cannot have any concrete info as to what the solution will be to resolve the issues.

The workload alone to untangle the legalities of RCID and rewrite the regulations are tremendous, and can’t be taken on with the staff that exists in either counties currently.

I agree with that, and have agreed with portions of that on several occasions in the nearly 200 pages of this thread.

My discussion with the member I was responding to in that post was related to media coverage of the RCID legislation; I brought up DeSantis et al's lack of plan at the beginning in an attempt to stay focused on the issue of media coverage, rather than the discussion reverting back to something we both already agreed on.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ok, here's a different example:

In the early days of the Ukraine conflict, despite rapidly rising gas prices, President Biden decided to ban the import of Russian oil. I am in no way commenting on the validity or merit of that decision, or the Ukraine situation overall. This is purely for the purposes of trying to reframe my point.

Imagine, if you will, most media outlets covered the story something like this (and to be clear, this is a completely hypothetical article which I made up, and the quotes are not real):


Do you notice something missing from that article?

The Biden administration response is what's missing! Here is what it actually was at the time (paraphrasing): "We're going to do everything we can to lower the price of gas for the American people."

Because they had yet to put forth specifics, does that mean that they didn't get to have their side of the story told? They didn't get to defend their actions? My answer is: of course they should get to have their say. The American people needed to know that their president is aware of the issue and will be working to fix it.

Yes, I am okay with that because it’s action and reaction. It’s the same thing, if there is a plan it should be presented. Nonspecific claims regarding future actions that cannot be substantiated or refuted should not be presented as equal to actions that have occurred.

I was avoiding mentioning the war, but it is very much an example of how this automatic presentation of “the other side” can be weaponized and dangerous. At the beginning of the invasion Reuters was just regurgitating Russian claims because they had an agreement with TASS as part of “presenting the other side”. It is a repeated claim from those pushing Russia’s narratives, you can’t trust what Western media is reporting because they’re not presenting “the other side” equally.

 

[Brian]

Yes, I am okay with that because it’s action and reaction. It’s the same thing, if there is a plan it should be presented. Nonspecific claims regarding future actions that cannot be substantiated or refuted should not be presented as equal to actions that have occurred.

It sounds like we're going to have to agree to disagree. That said, I respect you sticking to your guns.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don’t understand why people think the RCID is so evil? What has it done in the last 55 years other than fully support its mission?

There have been some rather negative incidents over the years. The District has done things like sought things like state and federal funding which is limited, meaning it didn’t go to another government. Married to the Mouse chronicles a number of incidents and really is worth a read.

 

[GoofGoof]

Ehh. Tough one and I really don’t have a clear opinion to be honest. In principle, I support dissolving the district. I have felt that way for a number of years. But of course this bill is a response to Disney’s response to the previous bill. Whether that is a violation of anything, I have no idea. I wouldn’t be surprised either way. Do Florida’s actions sit well with me? Not 100%. The escalation to this was probably unnecessary. slightly concerning. But I don’t see this as a new direction. This is more than 20 years in the making with contributions from many groups. And to frame it as disney simply exercising speech isn’t exactly honest imo. They consistency throw around their political weight and they have a lot of it. Tried to do the same thing in Georgia. They wanted to play the game and it not them. And now we pretend like they are helpless little victims? They aren’t. Doesn’t mean I don’t believe that corporations don’t have a right to get involved in politics or voice opinions. They do. But where does the line of protection end is what I’m interested in. Citizens United set a certain precedent and we will see where this goes.

Fair enough. It’s more clear cut to me this is a problem. I fundamentally disagree that Disney wanted to play the game and now they are getting what they deserve. The game is politics and we are all free to play as citizens and that includes corporations. It’s wrong for any person in political office to use the power of their office to get back at someone (including a corporation) who oppose them. I would have been perfectly fine if the Governor came out with a harsh statement back criticizing Disney or if any of the bill sponsors publicly suggested a Disney boycott or even tried to organize a shareholder revolt on their private time. That’s playing the game and any one of them as a private citizen has the same right to play. Using the power the people have given to you to punish a political opponent is not the same thing. It crosses a clear line to me.

This is somewhat similar to when Christie closed the bridge in NJ to get back at a mayor that didn’t support him for re-election. The big difference is that was met with harsh criticism and basically ruined Christie’s political career. This action is being applauded. It’s crazy how much has changed in the last decade or so.

 

[Dranth]

Whenever I come across an action like this, I think “what if the opposite occurred, or if someone who is opposite the perpetrator did the same, could I still support it”

Would you feel it was ok if Obama (assuming he had the authority) took away the RCID for speaking out this exact piece of legislation?
Would you feel ok if the RCID was taken away because Disney didn’t support LGBT rights ENOUGH?

I’ll leave other scenarios at these. But if you didn’t say yes to both of these, then you fundamentally do not support what the governor is doing-you’re just providing an excuse to justify the behavior to yourself.

I’d be 100% against them taking it away because Disney did not support any group enough. If it was egregious enough to me and my values they just wouldn’t get any more of my money.

 

[drizgirl]

Using the word “groomed” is the new right wing slogan they like to repeat and repeat and repeat. It’s like you all get a weekly email blast updating you on what words to use.

Sort of like how everyone started calling it the “Don’t say gay” bill at once?

 

[GoofGoof]

Here is an interesting read on the potential impact of dissolving RCID on DVC owners from DVCnews.com:

What the Loss of Reedy Creek Improvement District Potentially Means for DVC Owners | DVCNews.com - The essential Disney Vacation Club resource!

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has signed legislation to dissolve the Disney-run municipality known as Reedy Creek Improvement District. What does this mean for Disney Vacation Club owners? (Note: T

dvcnews.com

If what they are saying here is accurate then there would likely be a decrease in DVC dues since roughly half of the taxes paid today go to RCID and those taxes would go away. There would then be a potential increase in taxes paid to Orange County but the potential tax increase for all Orange County tax payers (including DVC owners) is estimated at around 25%. So roughly a 33% decrease in property taxes for owners.

Its also interesting to note that nearly 25% of the taxes paid into RCID come from DVC owners and not TWDC directly. It surprises me the number is that high.