News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Cliff said:
Does anybody here truly believe that DeSantis and the rest of the Legislature are "anti-WDW"?

Did anybody ever believe that DeSantis hates WDW as a large tourist destination, taxpayer and large Florida employer?

No,...he always valued the positive "potential" of WDW to the economy of the state. I'm sure he values Universal now just as much! This whole "fight" was always just a temporary spat! WDW needs Florida! WDW on it's own is literally almost 1/3 of ALL the company's profit. Yes WDW is THAT important to the entire company. Yes,...WDW is extremely important to Florida too! That was never a financial question or doubt by anybody.

WDW will ALWAYS get what it want's from the State of Florida and CFTOD too! YES!...If Disney wan'ts to build a new fifth gate?...CFTOD will absolutely assist them!!! Why? Because when WDW builds hotels stores and attractions,...Florida benefits. DeSantis and the legislature benefit! Florida benefits!

So,...CFTOD will watch over Disney's shoulder every day but they WANT Disney to make money so that EVERYbody wins.

It's time to drop all the CFTOD fear. WDW will be fine for the future!
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It was a stunt for publicity…and what does that get you? Donations.

It’s pretty academic?

Does he hate it? No…he’s a pol…it’s about strategic protestation…
 
M

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
Because of the settlement agreement, we’ll never know whether the State of Florida had the “right” to do what it did under the circumstances that occurred. That issue will not be litigated unless Disney revives the federal suit.
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The Federal law suit was a loser. The precedent the judge used came from the 11th circuit court--yes the judge and case is in the 11th circuit. Rhetorical question, what are the odds the 11th circuit was going to overturn their own precedent?
 
Stripes

Stripes

Well-Known Member
MR.Dis said:
The Federal law suit was a loser. The precedent the judge used came from the 11th circuit court--yes the judge and case is in the 11th circuit. Rhetorical question, what are the odds the 11th circuit was going to overturn their own precedent?
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Disney has a very strong argument for why that precedent does not apply to this situation. The judge that dismissed the case was never going to rule in Disney‘s favor. But he’s been overturned before. And I predict that if CFTOD doesn’t give Disney everything they want then Judge Winsor will be overturned again.
 
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I

Isamar

Well-Known Member
So many thoughts that I haven't properly organized yet, but my take:

I get that on paper this looks like Disney folded on everything, but IMHO the things that Disney lost here had already been lost. Even assuming some eventual version of a win in court, the DA has been void (or at best on pause) and would continue to be so until all court proceedings, including appeals, were complete. How many years was that going to take? How many more lawsuits was Disney going to be forced to bring, and pay for, along the way? Plus all the collateral damage in the interim. And that's if you win.

We'll have to see how this plays out, but it seems clear that the state wants to move on to normalcy (or whatever currently passes for normalcy). Garcia's exit, which I suspect was not his choice, Gilzean moving on, even the shift in the usual religious messaging at the meeting and the absence of Board-puppet "public comments"... they've pivoted. I think this is probably the best result Disney could reasonably hope for, based on their current situation and the reality that they're seeking the corporate "good", not what we think is the right result. Yup, the state may go back on the offensive at some point, but court wins wouldn't have reduced that risk (and may well have increased it) because the guardrails are gone.

I'm not minimizing what's happened here. After the better part of 2 years watching this play out, I'm still horrified at all of it. But Disney was never going to be made whole. There was never going to be a settlement that didn't give DeS a win on paper. So while I hate this result*, I'm struggling to see some alternate course of action they could pursue with some reasonable level of certainty that they'd end up better off in the end.

* My only solace is my hope that Garcia is livid about having his toy taken away. He'll have to find something else to torture for sport.
 
SoFloMagic

SoFloMagic

Well-Known Member
MR.Dis said:
Sorry, but I have to gloat. Go back about 800 pages and I stated The State of Florida always had the right to take over the District. My quote was "that ship has sailed" as far as Disney ever getting it back. The bigger thing here is I stated it is in both the State and Disney best interest to work together. Disney is at it's heart a corporation that wants to make money, and WDW is the biggest moneymaker for Disney. The State's best interest is to have a healthy WDW as it is the biggest employer in the State and is one of the highest tax payers in the State (if not The highest tax payer). I am just happy that cooler heads prevailed to stop these law suits. My Opinion is the new agreements will be satisfactory to both parties as again it is in both parties best interest. As someone who has visited WDW at least 2 times a year for the last 25 years, I look forward to clearing the decks for some exciting new developements thru out the property.
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Would have been a lot easier if that state listened to you several years ago and took more reasonable, measured steps at the time. Probably could have saved the taxpayers a lot of money
 
M

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
Listen, I am not pro Florida in this. Just thought they had the stronger case. I know people will want to post who won--I do not care. I just want to see capital improvement happening at WDW. There are other topics on this forum discussing when and what Disney's plans are going to be. Again my Opinion, but I have felt that Disney has been hesitant to commit to anything with this issue hanging over their heads. Now maybe they can get some quick new develp plans so actual plans and shovels in the ground.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
That’s exactly what makes this odd. The settlement doesn’t actually settle the areas of concern. In fact it does the opposite and now opens them up.

If a company and a union were engaged in a collective bargaining contract dispute, would you not find it odd of the union if they announced that they’ve agreed to just let the previous contract expire, will be giving up recently won benefits and will negotiate a new contract in the future? Under what circumstances would you advise someone to completely drop an existing contract in favor of a potential future contract? Even in a truly honest situation where both parties are acting in good faith that seems unwise.
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All I’ve seen so far are summaries of what has been agreed to. Is there an actual document that has been submitted to the court for approval?
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
MR.Dis said:
Listen, I am not pro Florida in this. Just thought they had the stronger case. I know people will want to post who won--I do not care. I just want to see capital improvement happening at WDW. There are other topics on this forum discussing when and what Disney's plans are going to be. Again my Opinion, but I have felt that Disney has been hesitant to commit to anything with this issue hanging over their heads. Now maybe they can get some quick new develp plans so actual plans and shovels in the ground.
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Actually they made no case…they just control the mechanisms to decide the case …along with an assist from the federal judiciary

They were engaging in political retribution.

That was clear 800 pages ago and it’s no less clear now.

The outcome doesn’t alter the facts
 
GoneViral

GoneViral

Well-Known Member
Isamar said:
So many thoughts that I haven't properly organized yet, but my take:

I get that on paper this looks like Disney folded on everything, but IMHO the things that Disney lost here had already been lost.

* My only solace is my hope that Garcia is livid about having his toy taken away. He'll have to find something else to torture for sport.
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My thoughts on these two aspects of your well-considered post.

1) Remember when the CFTOD took over, and it looked one way. Then, the world learned of King Charles III? It's like that. Disney had no need to settle this case unless it got everything it wanted. The timing isn't coincidental.

And it ties into your second point. They settled on Wednesday. Garcia would have testified on Thursday. Whatever Garcia did, he's now on the bad side of the DeSantis cronies now.
 
JoeCamel

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
GoneViral said:
My thoughts on these two aspects of your well-considered post.

1) Remember when the CFTOD took over, and it looked one way. Then, the world learned of King Charles III? It's like that. Disney had no need to settle this case unless it got everything it wanted. The timing isn't coincidental.

And it ties into your second point. They settled on Wednesday. Garcia would have testified on Thursday. Whatever Garcia did, he's now on the bad side of the DeSantis cronies now.
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I want to know what is on Garcia's phone.....
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Isamar said:
I get that on paper this looks like Disney folded on everything, but IMHO the things that Disney lost here had already been lost. Even assuming some eventual version of a win in court, the DA has been void (or at best on pause) and would continue to be so until all court proceedings, including appeals, were complete. How many years was that going to take? How many more lawsuits was Disney going to be forced to bring, and pay for, along the way? Plus all the collateral damage in the interim. And that's if you win.
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Disney had not already lost on the development agreement. The district was holding off on changing the comprehensive plan and development regulations until after they received a court ruling. So even if it did take years, that would be years of operating under the rules Disney wanted.
 
M

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
Stripes said:
Disney has a very strong argument for why that precedent does not apply to this situation. The judge that dismissed the case was never going to rule in Disney‘s favor. But he’s been overturned before. And I predict that if CFTOD doesn’t give Disney everything they want then Judge Windsor will be overturned again.
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Well we can agree to disagree
 
I

Isamar

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Disney had not already lost on the development agreement. The district was holding off on changing the comprehensive plan and development regulations until after they received a court ruling. So even if it did take years, that would be years of operating under the rules Disney wanted.
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Did they commit to that? (I'm honestly asking, because I don't know.)

They did make some changes to the regs a while back, but I think those basically amounted to declaring themselves supreme rulers of all they surveyed. IIRC they amended an outdated version that didn't include the last RCID updates, maybe on purpose but possibly because they're morons.

And I think the CFTOD legislation required them to review and revise everything, including the comprehensive plan & the land development regulations, by July 2026?
 
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lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Isamar said:
Did they commit to that? (I'm honestly asking, because I don't know.)

They did make some changes to the regs a while back, but I think those basically amounted to declaring themselves supreme rulers of all they surveyed.

And I think the CFTOD legislation required them to review and revise everything, including the comprehensive plan & the land development regulations, by July 2026?
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It is generally not a good idea to tell a court you are being prevented from doing something and then doing that very thing. Not being able to make changes was a major argument in their case against Disney.

The big change they made in regards to zoning and development was giving the boot to the planning commission and appointing themselves. They did also codify their supremacy over the municipalities, but that was part of the new charter.

And since I’ve now mentioned the planning commission, that’s another area where Disney could have been given a concession but was not. If this is all about switching over to just no nonsense business, why not go back to a planning commission with planning professionals?
 

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