Rapid Fill Mug Program Fails (at more ways than you might think)

[flynnibus]

Why are you talking about the 70s? It isn't the 70s anymore. It doesn't really apply then to the current discussion

Because if you follow the specific conversation - the posts in question were about when the machines were made self-serve in the first place and why... not why the machines are there now or why people think they are there now.

The original post
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...n-you-might-think.878940/page-42#post-6045656

There's a reason the machines were moved from behind the counter. I remember it plainly, it was quite the deal when McDonald's started allowing free refills, then the rest followed. Well, I was a lot younger, so it was a big deal to a small me, ha

And your original post regarding the subject definitely seemed to indicate that this now as you reveal "7os logic" still applies today

If you mean morals and ethics... yes. How sad is it we look to the 70s as a higher point in time then the present is..

As you admit, motivations and market trends have changed in 40 years. Flynn, I know you like to be right, an heck I even agree with you a decent amount of the time, but it's ok to not always know everything.

Now you're just mashing up words from different conversations. The basic morals have not changed - convenience stores have (the context of the 40yrs text) but that doesn't change basic social behavior. Do not take something that isn't yours... Respect others... if you go out on a limb and assume something, it's not someone else's burden to tell prove you shouldn't have (one should have the self-awareness they have gone beyond the known to the presumed).

The problem here is most people can not see beyond the 'whats the big deal.. refills are free...' to the morals and sociological issues actually at stake. The same corrupted morals justifying presumptions that you can do it because there is no sign or simply because its what you are most familiar with is part of the selfishness lack of self-responsibility so prevalent in our society today.

An illustration... if I chose to drive 5-10mph over the limit under the assumption they don't enforce the limits that strict.. then that is my CHOICE and something I must assume ownership of. If I get busted for doing 61 in a 55, then I need to accept the responsibility that I chose to drive that fast... not blame the cop for being a prick about the limit. This is blaming others for your choices.

In the soda context... if I chose to take additional refills from the soda fountain because I PRESUME they are free... then I must accept that choice is my own based on what info/risks/etc I had available. If I then get scolded for taking something that wasn't mine... I should ACCEPT THE RESPONSIBILITY that I incorrectly extended beyond what was offered to me. NOT turn around and blame the establishment for not putting up a sign telling me I couldn't do it. The latter is blaming the vendor for your assumption. That is the point I've been arguing. You can't blame others for choices you've made that extend beyond what is offered or answered.

You make assume refills because that's what you are familiar with - that does not mean your assumption redefines the rules or passes the burden to someone else if your assumption is wrong.

 

[flynnibus]

Well there are no signs that say you can't bring a slip-n-slide to McDonalds, fill it up with Diet Coke and have a party!! Great logic ya have there.

Apparently reading comprehension isn't in your forte either... pl0nk

 

[Prince-1]

If you have a party of four you would need to buy four cups. Not doing so is stealing but you already knew that. You just posted that to get a response. Here it is. Cheers. My family of four gets four cups every trip and we refill them as often as possible while we are there to get the most out of our investment. I have a box of WDW cups and Splitsville ones as well.

So please tell me where it says anywhere that you need to buy a cup for each person. It doesn't. My wife also asked when they started the Rapid Fill if we can share a cup and guess what.....wait for it.... here it comes....they said yes!! Can you believe it Norm? Management said yes. Shocking. As long as we paid for a cup they couldn't care less if we shared. So if WDW didn't care why does anyone else care.

And yes I posted that part to get a response. I got tired of reading posts that had the high and mighty saying that people that get refills are evil. EVIL!!!! Especially when management could care less. That's like going to a restaurant, asking if can help ourselves to refills and being told we can and then being told we were stealing by moralistic people who only got one drink and were happy with it. Wait, that's exactly what people were doing on here. But hey enjoy your box of cups. I have a cupboard full of them from the good ol' days when they were resort specific.

 

[Prince-1]

Apparently reading comprehension isn't in your forte either... pl0nk

Pl0nk??? Really. Did you write that sentence with your tongue sticking out and your fingers in your ears wiggling back and forth. On second thought, that would make typing hard to do, but I digress.

Sorry if your argument is a little like swiss cheese Flynn...full of holes.

Flynni: "Hey it doesn't say you cant bring in a garbage can and fill it up so it must be allowed!!"

Really!?! I am talking about getting a refill from a cup I bought on the same visit. That's it. Not trying to bring in screwed up logic or examples a 1st grader will use. C'mon, you see the difference right?? I get it and agree that its wrong to return another time or another day to "steal" soda but the same visit?? You are allowed to my friend. Its ok. They want you to. It's like a loss leader...they will be more than happy to lose a few cents in soda for you to go there and buy BBQ rib shaped spamburgers.

Gotta go now, my turn on the soda slide!

 

[NormC]

So please tell me where it says anywhere that you need to buy a cup for each person. It doesn't. My wife also asked when they started the Rapid Fill if we can share a cup and guess what.....wait for it.... here it comes....they said yes!! Can you believe it Norm? Management said yes. Shocking. As long as we paid for a cup they couldn't care less if we shared. So if WDW didn't care why does anyone else care.

And yes I posted that part to get a response. I got tired of reading posts that had the high and mighty saying that people that get refills are evil. EVIL!!!! Especially when management could care less. That's like going to a restaurant, asking if can help ourselves to refills and being told we can and then being told we were stealing by moralistic people who only got one drink and were happy with it. Wait, that's exactly what people were doing on here. But hey enjoy your box of cups. I have a cupboard full of them from the good ol' days when they were resort specific.

I for one never said getting refills was evil. The Rapid fill program is designed for you to get all the refills you are entitled to receive. As far as a CM telling you that you could just buy one cup for multiple persons I doubt that it is the intended use but hey, more power to you. One CM does not WDW make. If WDW didn't care they would have just stuck a pile of paper cups next to the soda dispensers and been done with it.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Churros.

 

[xdan0920]

Kinda sad how the world has gotten to the point when having morals means riding a high horse. I'm glad I'm old and will not have to live that far into the future. It doesn't look good and honesty will be a rarity.

Take all you want. It will achieve higher prices for everyone and perhaps a return to NOT having the free access to the "damn" machines. But enjoy your somewhat hard to understand logic. Just wondering, if I forget to lock my door, is it ok to just come in and take whatever you want? I mean it's easy access isn't it?

My neighbors get all bent out of shape when I take what I am entitled to from their houses. But, they left the door open, and there was no sign specifically telling me not to clean them out, so it's really their fault.

 

[xdan0920]

Well do you 'know owners' of 7-11s from the 70s? Because they are the ones I am speaking about - not the motivation and market trends 40+ years later.

As a current owner of C-stores....

We do want quick in and out, a customer who is able to get what they want quickly and easily, and get rung up the same way, is a happy customer, and therefore a repeat customer. We are a CONVENIENCE store. Lose the convenience, and you lose your customers.

 

[Prince-1]

I for one never said getting refills was evil. The Rapid fill program is designed for you to get all the refills you are entitled to receive. As far as a CM telling you that you could just buy one cup for multiple persons I doubt that it is the intended use but hey, more power to you. One CM does not WDW make. If WDW didn't care they would have just stuck a pile of paper cups next to the soda dispensers and been done with it.

It wasn't a CM it was the manager of the QS place at the Grand Floridian. And why does everyone use arguments like what I bolded above. I know WDW cares or they wouldn't have (mis)spent as much as they did on the Rapid Fill machines. But they WILL NEVER tell people they cant share a drink like my wife and I do. Never. Its silly to say the thing about paper cups because they want people to buy their "collectible" cups. I get it and we do on every trip but if WDW management does not care, as they have told me, then im good with sharing.

 

[NormC]

Enjoy your soda. The intent of the program is to prevent theft. If you can do as you said with the blessing of WDW then you are not the thief they are worried about. I do believe that WDW's intent is for every person consuming beverages to pay for it one way or another regardless of cup type. I do not believe WDW intended the cups to be shared but if you got a manager's blessing, great. Enjoy. I am sure once more people try this WDW will be more clear about their policy.

 

[Goofyernmost]

And that's the typical response u get from this board. Going straight to the extreme. "If you get a refill of soda, (even if the places allow it, since you know, they put the soda machine on the OUTSIDE), then you probably will just walk into someone's house and steal from me. Its the same thing right???!!!" Great logic. I'm one step away from murder or worse....talking positive abut Universal.

If you look at what I said, I always buy a cup, never bring my own cup to refill which I agree is stealing soda. But not sure how buying a soda and refilling it when they allow you to do so is wrong. Here is a little bit of logic, they allow you to refill your soda by placing it on the OUTSIDE where you get it yourself. If they didn't want you to get a refill for THAT visit then they wouldn't put it on the OUTSIDE. See, not stealing.

Now I would agree that if you come back on Wednesday with the cup you bought on Monday and used it to get soda then that is wrong. See, morals!!!! Yay, we all have them.

You got me, except we are not talking about a place the allows it are we? We are talking about Disney. They have gone to great lengths to prevent people from over-consuming beverages that are not paid for. Those establishments that allow it and encourage it are not a moral dilemma, just those that did not intend for it to be a free for all. That's were the comparison comes in. My statement concerning going into my house because the door is unlocked was in reference to the statement that if it's easy access, right out in the open then it's their fault and not mine.

If you are not the problem then I'm not sure why you are getting all defensive about it. You are not the only one on these boards and I speak in general terms. I am not going to just name people. In whatever I say it boils down to "if the shoe fits, wear it", if not just assume it isn't directed at you personally. That is another problem with boards. I quoted you because what I said was relative and Somewhat in support of what you were saying. Chill just a bit.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Does it cover mixers in alcomahol? If so Im feckin pure ragein man.

 

[Prince-1]

Enjoy your soda. The intent of the program is to prevent theft. If you can do as you said with the blessing of WDW then you are not the thief they are worried about. I do believe that WDW's intent is for every person consuming beverages to pay for it one way or another regardless of cup type. I do not believe WDW intended the cups to be shared but if you got a manager's blessing, great. Enjoy. I am sure once more people try this WDW will be more clear about their policy.

If they said we couldn't share or they were signs then that would be a different story. No offense but what you believe is unimportant and irrelevant since the manager who kind of actually, you know, works there in the QS restaurant said otherwise. And not sure how many more people you expect to try it but it has been operational for months with thousands and thousands of people using it as is. My guess is that they way it is has been running is the way it will continue. Pretty sure that Disney does not want to play Soda police and see if people are sharing a drink. But IF it changes then I shall go with the new established policy.

On a side note (and not just for you Norm but for all to enjoy and ponder), if sharing a soda is bad and considered stealing, what about appetizers at a restaurant on property?? Are we allowed to do that?? Should everyone buy their own app if they want one or is that allowed. I mean If I share an appetizer with my wife, who knows, next time I might just get the urge to go to Goofys or xdan's house and take what I want. But hey I'm a kidder and a rabble rouser!!

 

[NormC]

No offense taken. Enjoy your soda. Thousands and thousands including myself and my family have been using the system as intended and enjoying our drinks as well.

 

[Prince-1]

You got me, except we are not talking about a place the allows it are we? We are talking about Disney. They have gone to great lengths to prevent people from over-consuming beverages that are not paid for. Those establishments that allow it and encourage it are not a moral dilemma, just those that did not intend for it to be a free for all. That's were the comparison comes in. My statement concerning going into my house because the door is unlocked was in reference to the statement that if it's easy access, right out in the open then it's their fault and not mine.

If you are not the problem then I'm not sure why you are getting all defensive about it. You are not the only one on these boards and I speak in general terms. I am not going to just name people. In whatever I say it boils down to "if the shoe fits, wear it", if not just assume it isn't directed at you personally. That is another problem with boards. I quoted you because what I said was relative and Somewhat in support of what you were saying. Chill just a bit.

Sorry I'm getting defensive because there are people who seem to be making such outlandish and morally superior statements. Disney has installed the Rapid Fill machines to curb people taking soda without paying for them. I'm cool with that 100%. But to hear people say that I am stealing when I buy a cup and share it with my wife is ridiculous. Especially, as I have stated to Norm, that I have been told more than once that we can share as long as we buy the cup and use it just for the days that I have paid for. Which we do.

So again, the people that work there..in Disney...at the QS restaurants...say its ok to share. But people on here thinks its bad and wrong. Sorry gotta defend us law breakers, Goofy. I have no beef with you are anyone else but its hard to have people say stupid things like "Sharing=stealing" and not say anything. If people are (and I know it happens) trying to go around the system and abuse it then I have no issue with people calling them out and saying whatever u want to say but many people on here are saying naughty things about people who aren't. They disagree with people using the Rapid Fill like the way I do and believe that they are right. Even though the people that work there..in Disney...at the QS restaurants...yeah you get it!!

I

 

[xdan0920]

If they said we couldn't share or they were signs then that would be a different story. No offense but what you believe is unimportant and irrelevant since the manager who kind of actually, you know, works there in the QS restaurant said otherwise. And not sure how many more people you expect to try it but it has been operational for months with thousands and thousands of people using it as is. My guess is that they way it is has been running is the way it will continue. Pretty sure that Disney does not want to play Soda police and see if people are sharing a drink. But IF it changes then I shall go with the new established policy.

On a side note (and not just for you Norm but for all to enjoy and ponder), if sharing a soda is bad and considered stealing, what about appetizers at a restaurant on property?? Are we allowed to do that?? Should everyone buy their own app if they want one or is that allowed. I mean If I share an appetizer with my wife, who knows, next time I might just get the urge to go to Goofys or xdan's house and take what I want. But hey I'm a kidder and a rabble rouser!!

Nope, I have signs posted all over my property expressly forbidding such behavior. As you well know, if you are not told/shown a sign, it's a free for all. So, I took the appropriate steps.

On a slightly different, but still similar note, I was just able to procure 75 bags of mulch from Lowes. The fools just had it sitting out, no signs expressly forbidding that I take it without paying. Once I get it on my property, you can bet your sweet behind, I'll be attaching my "do not take" signs to it though. I am no dummy.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Sorry I'm getting defensive because there are people who seem to be making such outlandish and morally superior statements. Disney has installed the Rapid Fill machines to curb people taking soda without paying for them. I'm cool with that 100%. But to hear people say that I am stealing when I buy a cup and share it with my wife is ridiculous. Especially, as I have stated to Norm, that I have been told more than once that we can share as long as we buy the cup and use it just for the days that I have paid for. Which we do.

So again, the people that work there..in Disney...at the QS restaurants...say its ok to share. But people on here thinks its bad and wrong. Sorry gotta defend us law breakers, Goofy. I have no beef with you are anyone else but its hard to have people say stupid things like "Sharing=stealing" and not say anything. If people are (and I know it happens) trying to go around the system and abuse it then I have no issue with people calling them out and saying whatever u want to say but many people on here are saying naughty things about people who aren't. They disagree with people using the Rapid Fill like the way I do and believe that they are right. Even though the people that work there..in Disney...at the QS restaurants...yeah you get it!!

I

I think the general point was more along the lines of ...at what point is something stealing/abuse?

From a business perspective they don't want any guest getting soda for free. If you purchase a cup and share with your wife and/or children from the same cup and are not going back up to the machine every two minutes so everyone can get their cup or two full then in my eyes you are not really abusing it. I have seen guests taking a single cup and pouring the contents into a water glass, then going back up for more (witnessed this at Christmas) and getting mad that the machine made them wait. That is abuse/stealing in my book because the guest knew they were going to consume more than a cup and planned to distribute the soda to other cups while contiually refilling.

 

[EOD K9]

Here's a question. If you buy the soda and are allowed three refills, why is it stealing if you refill it three times and let your wife use it twice as well as you on the same visit? If you are entitled to a total of four drinks total, how is that considered wrong? I'm just asking and trying to get opinions. I see it as you are allowed four (to include the purchase) so why does it matter how it is distributed?

 

[JoeT63]

Vitriol, and 44 pages of comments..........................about soda. I fear we all have Fastpasses for early coronaries.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Vitriol, .

Is that the drink in Club Cool?