Rant about some theming issues at Liberty Square (and beyond!)

[FettFan]

Actually New Orleans had some pretty famous pirates like Jean Laffite, and isn't a stretch to think they may have easily sailed to the carribean, now going from a island in the south pacific to the caribean is a bit much, but I guess if you can take a jungle cruise on rivers from different continents without crossing the ocean...

Sorry about adding my comment in the middle of your quote, I don't do a lot of commenting on here.

Lafitte was never that famous until we Louisianians hoisted him on a pedestal after the Battle of New Orleans.

 

[JohnD]

Had a brief solo trip to WDW last weekend through Tuesday. (Solo trips are the best kind.) I have serious issues with Liberty Square. No, I'm not talking about burnt-out lightbulbs or broken AAs. Everything looked good from that standpoint. This is way more nit-picky! For a company that takes pride in details, there are some huge holes in what I'm about to point out.

Warning: This is stuff that most normal people (aka NOT us on here) would not even think about. And possibly some stuff that will make you, the die-hard WDWMagic fan, think I'M crazy! Forgive me if this is all in another thread somewhere, but I'm terrible at searching and didn't come across much of it.

Here we go.

Let's talk about the overall theming. It is a distinctly Colonial themed part of the park. This is where the problem begins. First is the music. My sister and I could have sworn the music loop was back to the original colonial version in January. Last weekend, it was the newer one with the Sousa marches. Who thought this was a good idea? So ALL of the architecture and costumes scream "COLONIAL" to me, yet Sousa is a distinctly LATE 1800s/early 1900s composer. Did they just think that songs like E.E. Bagley's "Under The Double Eagle" or Sousa's "The Liberty Bell" would sound "better" than the colonial music? It's great music, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't belong in a COLONIAL-era part of the park. That would be like playing the Beatles in Fantasyland and saying "well they're European, like most of these rides, right?" Am I crazy for thinking that is this a is a major failure on Disney's part? Sousa is as American as Apple Pie and Baseball, but his marches don't belong in a land themed to Colonial era America. Actually, from a music history perspective, they would fit better on Main Street U.S.A. than anywhere else! (I do like the new MSUSA loop by the way.)

As I walked to Frontierland, I found that the Liberty Square loop continues to play LOUDLY out of the speakers as far down as the Frontierland Shootin' Arcade!!! That stupid frontier themed meet n' greet with Donald (?) has the Sousa music coming out of the speakers! The music transitions so well in every other part of the park, but it's really frustrating to look at the Golden Horseshoe Revue and hear marching band music blasting instead of the acoustic cowboy music that makes Frontierland so great. What on earth is going on here? Something being broadcast to the wrong channels? This must be something they can fix.

Let's talk about the bride scene in the Haunted Mansion that had serious changes in the 2007 refurb. I hadn't thought of this for a long time. All of the wedding photos in the attic are dated in the late 1800s. Why? Isn't this supposed to be a colonial era mansion?? The mansion itself is purposely designed with Gothic revival architecture. So why are all the wedding photos dated from the 1860s? All of the other ghosts are wearing period-era costumes, so why did they seriously drop the ball with this one? Poor theming to say the least. (I have other serious issues with the bride, but I'll save them for another time). I feel like imagineers couldn't make up their mind if they wanted Colonial or Victorian era stuff in HM.

This reminds me of late 90s or early 2000s-era movies have invaded a land that's supposed to be based on the concept of Tomorrow. Last I checked, there was nothing futuristic about Buzz Lightyear, Monster's Inc., or Lilo & Stitch. Don't get me wrong, Buzz is a great ride, and I do enjoy the Laugh Floor occasionally. But they definitely don't belong in a place called Tomorrowland. It's like they can't decide what Tomorrowland should really be.

The last bit isn't really about theming, but I want to add that I think the George W. Bush and Barack Obama AA's in the Hall of Presidents are the worst looking of the bunch. Perhaps it's because we live in a day and age where we are used to seeing the President constantly, and it's just harder to nail their look when we are so familiar with them. But President Bush looks nothing like him, and President Obama doesn't quite have the eyes right and looks to me like a creepy version of the real dude. Anyone agree?

Ok, rant over!

You're right. Too nit-picky.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Actually New Orleans had some pretty famous pirates like Jean Laffite, and isn't a stretch to think they may have easily sailed to the carribean, now going from a island in the south pacific to the caribean is a bit much, but I guess if you can take a jungle cruise on rivers from different continents without crossing the ocean...

Sorry about adding my comment in the middle of your quote, I don't do a lot of commenting on here.

Yes, it fits fine. I just re-read the story of Pirates (DL's) version, and it fits.

 

[mouse_luv]

Because photography wasn't invented until the 1800s, so I think it would be odd to see photos dated in the 1700s instead of the 1800s .

They didn't really drop the ball on it. Those style costumes existed in the 1800s. You should note, though, that one major style, Wigs, from the 1700s is not present in the mansion, therefore indicating that it takes place in the 1800s. Given that it's DL counterpart is in New Orleans Square and Louisiana was not an original colony, this makes sense.

Also, Pirates of the Caribbean in Disneyland is located in New Orleans Square. Now that's trying to make something fit the theming

Actually, if one wanted to be very picky and WDW wanted to adhere to time period accuracy, those should be paintings of the couple in the HM attic.

 

[rodserling27]

Because photography wasn't invented until the 1800s, so I think it would be odd to see photos dated in the 1700s instead of the 1800s .

They didn't really drop the ball on it. Those style costumes existed in the 1800s. You should note, though, that one major style, Wigs, from the 1700s is not present in the mansion, therefore indicating that it takes place in the 1800s. Given that it's DL counterpart is in New Orleans Square and Louisiana was not an original colony, this makes sense.

Also, Pirates of the Caribbean in Disneyland is located in New Orleans Square. Now that's trying to make something fit the theming

Excellent points!!

I don't believe that Liberty Square is supposed to be set in actual Colonial times. It feels much more like a "historical" park than Colonial Philadelphia. If it were actually set in Colonial times the Liberty Bell would be at the top of Independence Hall, not on commemorative display with a nice brass plaque.

And it's funny that you mention Jack White, and I do get your point about The White Stripes, but Jack is a huge fan of American Heritage music. And while not MSUSA, I could easily see his music being used around Splash Mt. or possibly even Frontierland.

Good call on the Liberty Bell. It SHOULDN'T be on display if we are supposed to be entering Colonial times.

JW is the man! That clip you pasted is from the soundtrack to "Cold Mountain," right? Some of the tracks off of his solo record "Blunderbuss" sound like they were inspired by that kind of stuff. He's also obsessed with blues music like Son House, Blind Willie McTell, Charley Patton... I could totally hear some of his more American folk stuff being suitable for Splash or Frontierland.

Actually, if one wanted to be very picky and WDW wanted to adhere to time period accuracy, those should be paintings of the couple in the HM attic.

Ahhh, yes! They are paintings almost everywhere else on the attraction, so perhaps they SHOULD be paintings in the attic!

You're right. Too nit-picky.

I warned you, didn't I?!

 

[Rob562]

One small note... The Diamond Horseshoe is located in Liberty Square, not Frontierland. The official boundary between lands is the "bridge" that the stream (representing the Mississippi River) runs under the walkway between the bathrooms and the Shooting Arcade. (The sign saying "Frontierland" is also located here) The meet and greet is right near there, so I guess the volume levels need to be tweaked a little.

-Rob

 

[morningstar]

Buzz Lightyear, Monster's Inc., or Lilo & Stitch. Don't get me wrong, Buzz is a great ride, and I do enjoy the Laugh Floor occasionally. But they definitely don't belong in a place called Tomorrowland. It's like they can't decide what Tomorrowland should really be.

Buzz Lightyear is clearly from the future. He is a spaceman who works for Star Command and shoots a laser out of his arm. The fact that he is a toy from the present representing a man from the future just means that it's a fantasy within a fantasy. Lilo and Stitch is set in the present, but involves aliens and is satisfactorily futuristic. Monsters - yeah. That's neither past nor future; it's an alternate reality.

 

[rodserling27]

One small note... The Diamond Horseshoe is located in Liberty Square, not Frontierland. The official boundary between lands is the "bridge" that the stream (representing the Mississippi River) runs under the walkway between the bathrooms and the Shooting Arcade. (The sign saying "Frontierland" is also located here) The meet and greet is right near there, so I guess the volume levels need to be tweaked a little.

-Rob

The original show that used to play there was most certainly a Wild West/Frontierland aimed show, NOT a colonial one. The overall theming inside the building is distinctly a Western America one too. Hence, why I just assumed it's an official part of Frontierland. However, WDW's own website can't seem to get it straight. It says located in "Liberty Square," on the website. Yet the description reads:

Fastest Lunch in the West
Step inside this old-time, Wild West music hall for a quick and easy bite to eat.

In Frontierland at Magic Kingdom park, a red-curtained vaudevillian stage flanked by white balustrade balconies houses the world-famous self-playing piano for your listening pleasure while 2 floors provide ample seating.

So I suppose we are both right.

 

[Matt_Black]

Monsters - yeah. That's neither past nor future; it's an alternate reality.

The Monsters Inc. factory has a gate to the TARDIS. I'm counting it!

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't believe that Liberty Square is supposed to be set in actual Colonial times. It feels much more like a "historical" park than Colonial Philadelphia. If it were actually set in Colonial times the Liberty Bell would be at the top of Independence Hall, not on commemorative display with a nice brass plaque.

What set Disneyland apart from prior proto-theme parks, like Knott's Berry Farm, is the crossing of the proscenium. The themes are not displays that we view, but worlds we enter.