Railroad closing?

[optjay]

while there may be room, the trains may not be able to make it up the climb to main street station.

huh ?

 

[unkadug]

The bridge that passes over the trains behind Fantasyland was built to Highway Department standards (as evidenced by the un-magical superstructure you see every time you pass under it on the train). It's been traveled on by hundreds of buses, armored trucks and delivery trucks every single day for almost 40 years. They won't need to close the train down for deliveries.

However, it's likely that it will go into shuttle mode for a while, like it did when they were building Splash Mountain. TTF's station is a very half-a$$ed structure, as it was only meant to be there for a few years. It was cheaply built, and it looks cheap. So, even if the new train station will be in the same place, I predict they completely re-build it. During that time, they'll probably put up the "magical plywood walls" along the track and the train will pass by as long as possible. But anytime they're working on the roof/canopy itself, they'll need to avoid that area for safety.

As for moving the station closer to Tomorrowland, that would really screw up their block signal system. The loop is divided up into - I believe - 6 blocks, with 2 between each station. Right now, the stations are roughly at 1/3-points. If there were a station in Tomorrowland, not only would it contrast the theme of the area, but it wouldn't allow for a train to leave the Tomorrowland station until the next one had cleared MS Station, due to the proximity.

I was thinking more along the lines of the basically wasted space behind the speedway along the seldom used path between Space Mountain and MTTF. That really wouldn't change the blocking system.

 

[Tom]

I was thinking more along the lines of the basically wasted space behind the speedway along the seldom used path between Space Mountain and MTTF. That really wouldn't change the blocking system.

Ah, ok. You're probably right.

 

[lazyboy97o]

During that time, they'll probably put up the "magical plywood walls" along the track and the train will pass by as long as possible. But anytime they're working on the roof/canopy itself, they'll need to avoid that area for safety.

I could see the train being totally shut done for a couple of days, as the spur to the barn joins the line right there before the station.

huh ?

The trains go uphill between Mickey's Toon Town Fair and Main Street, USA. I believe the location of the station was chosen in part to make sure the trains had enough track to build momentum to help with the climb. If the station were closer to or within Tomorrowland the trains may slip and stall trying to get up to Main Street Station.

 

[Tom]

I could see the train being totally shut done for a couple of days, as the spur to the barn joins the line right there before the station.

Perhaps. When I was talking about Safety, I was referring to the guests. I would almost tend to think that they'll try their hardest to get the trains into and out of service, even if that area of the track has construction around it.

Regardless, there will almost assuredly be down time and switch-back time for the WDWRR, but I imagine it will be limited.

The trains go uphill between Mickey's Toon Town Fair and Main Street, USA. I believe the location of the station was chosen in part to make sure the trains had enough track to build momentum to help with the climb. If the station were closer to or within Tomorrowland the trains may slip and stall trying to get up to Main Street Station.

I also heard that during the Steam Train tour, but there is also a block signal between TL and MSUSA where the train has to hold until 2 blocks ahead are clear. It's the same place the morning character train holds until its cue in the park opening music.

If I remember correctly from the tour, the WDW trains actually have the sand dispensers that spit out bits of sand onto the rails if the drive wheels are slipping. Maybe I'm dreaming all of this too.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I also heard that during the Steam Train tour, but there is also a block signal between TL and MSUSA where the train has to hold until 2 blocks ahead are clear. It's the same place the morning character train holds until its cue in the park opening music.

I am sure there would be a way to reconfigure the blocks, or something. Disneyland and Disneyland Paris both operate four stations and four trains.

 

[WDWSteamDreamer]

I was thinking more along the lines of the basically wasted space behind the speedway along the seldom used path between Space Mountain and MTTF.QUOTE]

For Steam Train Fans that small quiet path is a Wonderland all it's own. No other Disney Park offers the ability to watch their Steam trains pull a long incline like you can at Magic Kingdom. I've gone myself on many an occasion just so that I can sit and watch those old Iron Horses work.

I would like to think Walt would be doing the same... that is when he wasn't driving the trains himself.

I think if they were to do anything with that beautiful area, it would be to groom the trees just a little bit more (better photograghy sight lines) and add some more benches so we could relax while we wait for the next train to come by.

 

[Tom]

I was thinking more along the lines of the basically wasted space behind the speedway along the seldom used path between Space Mountain and MTTF.QUOTE]

For Steam Train Fans that small quiet path is a Wonderland all it's own. No other Disney Park offers the ability to watch their Steam trains pull a long incline like you can at Magic Kingdom. I've gone myself on many an occasion just so that I can sit and watch those old Iron Horses work.

I would like to think Walt would be doing the same... that is when he wasn't driving the trains himself.

I think if they were to do anything with that beautiful area, it would be to groom the trees just a little bit more (better photograghy sight lines) and add some more benches so we could relax while we wait for the next train to come by.

You are exactly right.

 

[rpk4444]

Yes you are correct, I am saying in order to get all the new equipment, building materials, workers & god knows what I heard that the RR was going to be down for a short while. Not that the new FL was outside the RR boundries. Sorry for the confusion.

How are they getting the large equipment to the site now? Is there a bridge or something that crosses the tracks so it doesn't get damaged?

 

[Tom]

How are they getting the large equipment to the site now? Is there a bridge or something that crosses the tracks so it doesn't get damaged?

Yes, there's a road from the CM parking lot (and everything else north of the MK) to the tunnel entrance (under Pinocchio's). It crosses the WDWRR via a highway type bridge that's roughly behind Toontown. You pass under it in the train every time you go from FL to TT.

They can drive basically anything over it.

 

[officeboy]

Since Mr. Britton's departure I have been expecting some changes with the WDWRR, and my fear is not for the better. Regardless of the rich history that is the RR and being Walt's imputes for creating the parks in the first place I would be surprised to learn the people in charge at WDW have not, and are not, looking at ways to reduce costs associated with the RR. Shut it down permanently? Probably not. Change the maintenance intensive and costly to operate steam locomotives? Maybe, but not in the near future. As I recall most of the engines have been to Tweetsiee recently so I doubt they will abandon those investments.

As for shutting the trains down for expansion I don't know. As I recall the plan is (was? Lee?) to tear down the TT station and rebuild it with new themeing. Could they still run through that area even if all station construction was at night??? Since lots of the on line maintenance is done at TT as well as the only place to take on water the train has to stop there often for both. If the train can't get to TT to take on water due to station construction/deconstruction, expect there to be no train service. Logistically I don't think shuttle service to bypass TT station is practical. I can't see them deadheading from MS to TT and back for water every time.

Perhaps they are simply 'rebranding' the TT station as it was just torn down and rebuilt from scratch a few years ago. You think its a dump now you should have seen the original structure in all its rusting glory! If rethemeing is all that is in order I have seen nothing in the drawings, renderings, or discussions thus far that would shut the RR down for FL construction.

 

[SeaCastle]

Since Mr. Britton's departure I have been expecting some changes with the WDWRR, and my fear is not for the better. Regardless of the rich history that is the RR and being Walt's imputes for creating the parks in the first place I would be surprised to learn the people in charge at WDW have not, and are not, looking at ways to reduce costs associated with the RR. Shut it down permanently? Probably not. Change the maintenance intensive and costly to operate steam locomotives? Maybe, but not in the near future. As I recall most of the engines have been to Tweetsiee recently so I doubt they will abandon those investments.

I read on another board that the railroad is the single most expensive attraction to run on a day-to-day basis. The post was in reference to Disneyland's railroad, but I assume the same could go for the Magic Kingdom.

 

[officeboy]

I read on another board that the railroad is the single most expensive attraction to run on a day-to-day basis. The post was in reference to Disneyland's railroad, but I assume the same could go for the Magic Kingdom.

I am unfamiliar with the $$$ numbers, but that would not surprise me for DL. They custom built the locos they use there. The engines in use in FL are resurrected commercailly built ones. I think the FL engines are a little bit more efficient over all.

Taking fireworks out of the equation I would bet Test Track, Monorails, and the bus fleet would give the RR a run for its money on a yearly TCO basis.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I am unfamiliar with the $$$ numbers, but that would not surprise me for DL. They custom built the locos they use there. The engines in use in FL are resurrected commercailly built ones. I think the FL engines are a little bit more efficient over all. .

Only the C. K. Holiday and the E. P. Ripley were custom built for the park opening. The Fred Gurley, Ernest S. Marsh and Ward Kimbal are all older locomotives that were built for other purposes before Disneyland opened. However, except the first two locomotives, Disneyland's fleet is older than the Magic Kingdom's. Disneyland also runs up to four trains and has more more stations, which means they probably have a larger workforce than the Magic Kingdom.

 

[NASAMan]

In cities that have main line commuter service stations are rebuilt and replaced without interrupting service. I'm sure this can be accomplished at the MK as well. The station does not physically extend over the track, so work can be done without interference.

For Steam Train Fans that small quiet path is a Wonderland all it's own. No other Disney Park offers the ability to watch their Steam trains pull a long incline like you can at Magic Kingdom. I've gone myself on many an occasion just so that I can sit and watch those old Iron Horses work.

I would like to think Walt would be doing the same... that is when he wasn't driving the trains himself.

I think if they were to do anything with that beautiful area, it would be to groom the trees just a little bit more (better photograghy sight lines) and add some more benches so we could relax while we wait for the next train to come by.​

WDWSteamDreamer, that is one of the best things I've read on this board.

 

[jt04]

I was thinking more along the lines of the basically wasted space behind the speedway along the seldom used path between Space Mountain and MTTF.QUOTE]

For Steam Train Fans that small quiet path is a Wonderland all it's own. No other Disney Park offers the ability to watch their Steam trains pull a long incline like you can at Magic Kingdom. I've gone myself on many an occasion just so that I can sit and watch those old Iron Horses work.

I would like to think Walt would be doing the same... that is when he wasn't driving the trains himself.

I think if they were to do anything with that beautiful area, it would be to groom the trees just a little bit more (better photograghy sight lines) and add some more benches so we could relax while we wait for the next train to come by.

Great idea.

 

[officeboy]

Only the C. K. Holiday and the E. P. Ripley were custom built for the park opening. The Fred Gurley, Ernest S. Marsh and Ward Kimbal are all older locomotives that were built for other purposes before Disneyland opened. However, except the first two locomotives, Disneyland's fleet is older than the Magic Kingdom's. Disneyland also runs up to four trains and has more more stations, which means they probably have a larger workforce than the Magic Kingdom.

Opps. You are absolutely correct. My bad. You would think as much as I yank on hot throttles I would have those fact straight. :hammer:

Just out of curiosity do you spend much time at Burnsland?

 

[Cruiser237]

I was thinking more along the lines of the basically wasted space behind the speedway along the seldom used path between Space Mountain and MTTF.QUOTE]

For Steam Train Fans that small quiet path is a Wonderland all it's own. No other Disney Park offers the ability to watch their Steam trains pull a long incline like you can at Magic Kingdom. I've gone myself on many an occasion just so that I can sit and watch those old Iron Horses work.

I would like to think Walt would be doing the same... that is when he wasn't driving the trains himself.

I think if they were to do anything with that beautiful area, it would be to groom the trees just a little bit more (better photograghy sight lines) and add some more benches so we could relax while we wait for the next train to come by.

I'm having a hard time picturing this path...how exactly do you get to it ? (i.e. start at point A and end at point C etc please) Sounds like a spot I MUST go to !

 

[WDWSteamDreamer]

I'm having a hard time picturing this path...how exactly do you get to it ? (i.e. start at point A and end at point C etc please) Sounds like a spot I MUST go to ![/QUOTE]

If you are at the TT station and walk toward the front on the train, which would put you on the backside of Barnstormer, that is where the path starts.

It follows along parallel to the tracks all the way to the Arcade at the Space Mountain exit.

Now just before the trains reach the end of this walking path, there is a Castmember Crossing, which requires the Engineer sound off their whistle. (and if you point a camera in their direction, they'll most likely open their steam chest petcocks, an awesome sight)


NASAMan, Thank You

 

[ejeremy98]

i'm so sure.

they'll never shut down the train permanently. too many people love it and it's too iconic. Also you enter MK under the TRAIN STATION - would be a little weird without an actual train.