Prices up…profits down…

[Goofyernmost]

Goofernmost we are of the same age and military background thus due to A/O exposure I had a rare non malignant brain tumor and lost the ability to hear in my right ear and have sever balance issues due to right side balance nerve being removed. I can not stand for long periods and can't walk long distances without stopping for a rest. Someone not know would think I was drinking (have not had a drink in 40 years). I have no problem supplying Disney with proof IMO it should be mandatory --in a perfect world people would not abuse any system with good intent.

You and I seem to have the same good fortune. The difference is that your problem stemmed from the top of your head and mine from the stenosis in middle of my neck. On top of that I have sleep apnea and still have prostate cancer, and the list goes on. I'm having a hard time finding a lot of enjoyment in the aging process. We seem to have the same mobility symptoms. The balance thing was or is the worse but that is how I noticed the more severe problem in 2022. I noticed it while playing golf. I couldn't stand stable over the ball so when I swung at the ball I usually hit the ground about 3 inches behind it. I'm pretty close to the worse golfer to ever grace a golf course, but at least I could hit the ball even though I had no idea which direction it was going to go. At that point I couldn't even hit the ball.

An MRI located a stenosis problem in my neck that was causing the additional problems pinching nerves as well as the lower back problems. That was in 2022 that I had the surgery to fuse C-4/C-5 and I have been attempting to get things back to the way it was with just the lower back problem. I don't wish this situation on anyone. I still have a lot of things that I want to do before I take that permanent journey and for the most part if I can plan ahead, I can do most of them, just at a much different pace. I would also not have any problem explaining or even showing medical evidence if it meant that I wasn't going to be scrutinized by everyone else. Ask away if it means that the public will feel that the problems are legit.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Goofernmost we are of the same age and military background thus due to A/O exposure I had a rare non malignant brain tumor and lost the ability to hear in my right ear and have sever balance issues due to right side balance nerve being removed. I can not stand for long periods and can't walk long distances without stopping for a rest. Someone not know would think I was drinking (have not had a drink in 40 years). I have no problem supplying Disney with proof IMO it should be mandatory --in a perfect world people would not abuse any system with good intent.

The problem is what is considered proof. You have your specific example - for mine, my child has a rare genetic disorder that impacts her development. Less than 1000 people in the world are diagnosed. Diagnosis name will mean nothing to a Disney DAS CM even if it's provided by a doctor. Doctors notes are easily forged, especially in this day and age. IEPs, imo (as IBCCES uses) are not medical proof of anything, they're for educational accommodation needs which are entirely different settings than Disney theme parks. Not to mention only address children's needs. Accessible parking placards are largely for mobility disabilities, which is not was DAS is for.

What proof exists that people won't still question anyway as easily forged?

IMO, recognizing this is cynical, as long as there is bias surrounding disability, there's always going to be people cheating the system or people believing that those with invisible disabilities are cheating the system. "Proof" isn't going to change that.

 

[John park hopper]

If someone goes to all the trouble of forging a doctors disability form IMO they are lower than a snakes belly and I would hope they comprise a fraction of a fraction of disability claims. There will always be those people that view someone with a "disability" as possibly cheating the system all I can say is screw them. My disability is real and I wish I did not have it and I care less what someone thinks.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If someone goes to all the trouble of forging a doctors disability form IMO they are lower than a snakes belly and I would hope they comprise a fraction of a fraction of disability claims. There will always be those people that view someone with a "disability" as possibly cheating the system all I can say is screw them. My disability is real and I wish I did not have it and I care less what someone thinks.

Agreed. And is part of why I disagree with the idea of putting extra burdens on people with disabilities to "prove" their disability because it's not going to change the perception of people cheating the system. I personally don't think there's a huge number of people pretending to have a disability to get DAS to warrant the extra hoops for those who already have extra barriers to deal with.

 

[jloucks]

I still don't think it's unreasonable to ask for proof of disability. Most places in the UK/Europe ask like Disneyland Paris.

Most legit people I talk to support this process. Removes guilt for the legit, eliminates the abusers, and builds credibility for those inconvenienced facilitating the accommodation (if applicable).

 

[jloucks]

the idea of putting extra burdens on people with disabilities to "prove" their disability because it's not going to change the perception of people cheating the system.

I would argue it is not a burden, and the benefits outweigh the burden 10-fold. Is getting a handicapped parking pass a burden? I mean, I guess it is a little burden, but the benefit makes it worth it.

This is an old debate on this board. I have said it before, but I will say it again: if you have a handicapped sticker for your car, it works in the park to provide the same benefits that were applicable. If not, you can wait your turn like the rest of us.

Scooters are fine if you have experience with such a thing. Just like a car tho, you drive like a crack-head, you lose your privilege.

 

[jloucks]

If someone goes to all the trouble of forging a doctors disability form IMO they are lower than a snakes belly and I would hope they comprise a fraction of a fraction of disability claims. There will always be those people that view someone with a "disability" as possibly cheating the system all I can say is screw them. My disability is real and I wish I did not have it and I care less what someone thinks.

Anytime you incentivize any sort of shenanigans, people are going to do it. Snake bellys all!

I think there is a way to accommodate and NOT incentivize. We just have to figure out the sweet spot.

 

[Ayla]

Agreed. And is part of why I disagree with the idea of putting extra burdens on people with disabilities to "prove" their disability because it's not going to change the perception of people cheating the system. I personally don't think there's a huge number of people pretending to have a disability to get DAS to warrant the extra hoops for those who already have extra barriers to deal with.

Previous numbers said otherwise, which is why changes were implemented.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Most legit people I talk to support this process. Removes guilt for the legit, eliminates the abusers, and builds credibility for those inconvenienced facilitating the accommodation (if applicable).

We found the DL Paris system much less invasive than the US DAS system. Handing a French CM my GFs medical paperwork (describing her condition and its physical limitations) was far easier than trying to explain to a random CM how her heart condition, her medications, and heat can result in blood pressure drops and fainting.

We never had a problem getting DAS (before the change) but it was far more frustrating having to explain the complexities to a CM rather than just letting them read it for themselves, we also felt the US system was far more judgmental and the CMs far more suspicious because of the rampant fraud.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

Disney is a profitable company. They have made smart acquisitions. There is no disputing this.

The problem is they grew TWDC off the backs of DL and WDW. Because of that they are over 2 decades behind where they should be on true park growth in relation with increasing attendance. Had the parks naturally grown with attendance, profits would have remained huge with no need to overcharge.

Overcrowding and long lines has created negative feedback and thier only real solution at this point is to raise prices to absurd levels to lower crowds and get guest satisfacion back of the people who still attend. Problem now is you have now lost many loyal customers. Its a problem that was created years ago with no real solution in sight.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I would argue it is not a burden, and the benefits outweigh the burden 10-fold. Is getting a handicapped parking pass a burden? I mean, I guess it is a little burden, but the benefit makes it worth it.

This is an old debate on this board. I have said it before, but I will say it again: if you have a handicapped sticker for your car, it works in the park to provide the same benefits that were applicable. If not, you can wait your turn like the rest of us.

Scooters are fine if you have experience with such a thing. Just like a car tho, you drive like a crack-head, you lose your privilege.

It took me a week of back and forth - time I *don't have* - with my child's doctor to get the "proof" required by ICCBES for Universal. You're welcome to feel for yourself that that isn't a burden, but it absolutely was for me. Much more so than the 30 minute conversation with Disney for DAS.

If we want to discuss that having an accessible parking pass should qualify you for a DAS, then you're talking about a massive change to either the DMV systems or the DAS, because there are multiple states that don't give accessible parking passes for developmental/intellectual disabilities. They give them more for mobility disabilities, which DAS is explicitly not for. If the argument is that they *should* give accessible parking to those with developmental and intellectual disabilities, I wouldn't disagree, but that's not the current reality. But an accessible parking pass still wouldn't be "proof" for DAS unless DAS then also is given to those with mobility disabilities.

 

[Keladry84]

If we want to discuss that having an accessible parking pass should qualify you for a DAS, then you're talking about a massive change to either the DMV systems or the DAS, because there are multiple states that don't give accessible parking passes for developmental/intellectual disabilities. They give them more for mobility disabilities, which DAS is explicitly not for. If the argument is that they *should* give accessible parking to those with developmental and intellectual disabilities, I wouldn't disagree, but that's not the current reality. But an accessible parking pass still wouldn't be "proof" for DAS unless DAS then also is given to those with mobility disabilities.

Re the parking pass for physical vs. developmental disabilities. I think this is a great example of an accommodation specific to need. Yes, I have a disability (autism), but a parking pass would do nothing for me. In fact, the location of disabled parking spots are the opposite of my needs - they are at the front, with a lot of people walking in the area, and many cars driving by. When I am driving, that is the exact situation I need to avoid due to all of the movement/chaos. I've never asked for a parking pass nor would I expect one to be issued to me. (this is not to say this would be the same for all people with developmental disabilities - needs/abilities differ from person to person!)

I'm in agreement that using a parking pass as evidence for need of DAS or AAP is apples to oranges. They are two very different types of accommodations for different types of disabilities/needs. I do apply for AAP/DAS and qualify for both, because the accommodation matches my needs, and I would expect any documentation requested to match to the accommodation being requested. A parking pass as evidence only demonstrates a disability exists, not that that disability necessitates a needs for DAS/AAP.

I'm sorry you had such a difficult time with the universal documentation. For myself, I was able to just submit my diagnosis paperwork, which also was sufficient for the 1-year renewal. I wasn't sure what was needed and just tried that before going the doctor/request route.

Personally, I really like the middle-ground that Universal created with their most recent update. For me, having the case number and consistency of knowing exactly how I will be accommodated each trip is much less anxiety-inducing than DAS, and was well-worth providing the documentation to get it. But for those not able to get paperwork easily, the ability to request on-site each time is a good middle-ground.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Disney is a profitable company. They have made smart acquisitions. There is no disputing this.

The problem is they grew TWDC off the backs of DL and WDW. Because of that they are over 2 decades behind where they should be on true park growth in relation with increasing attendance. Had the parks naturally grown with attendance, profits would have remained huge with no need to overcharge.

Overcrowding and long lines has created negative feedback and thier only real solution at this point is to raise prices to absurd levels to lower crowds and get guest satisfacion back of the people who still attend. Problem now is you have now lost many loyal customers. Its a problem that was created years ago with no real solution in sight.

I agree with this but unfortunately they also cut a lot of the perks that made a Disney trip so unique at the same time.

Bring back 2019 Disney with free Magical Express, free luggage service, free FP, free Magicbands, etc and we’d still be happily paying… without all those perks its much harder to justify the high prices.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I agree with this but unfortunately they also cut a lot of the perks that made a Disney trip so unique at the same time.

Bring back 2019 Disney with free Magical Express, free luggage service, free FP, free Magicbands, etc and we’d still be happily paying… without all those perks its much harder to justify the high prices.

Yep. Just more of the take from the parks to fund other areas. How long has D+ been around? It's just now able to carry itself.

 

[Keladry84]

I agree with this but unfortunately they also cut a lot of the perks that made a Disney trip so unique at the same time.

Bring back 2019 Disney with free Magical Express, free luggage service, free FP, free Magicbands, etc and we’d still be happily paying… without all those perks its much harder to justify the high prices.

It's interesting seeing the perspectives of those who have been going to Disney for years vs. those who only recently experienced it. My first trip/connection was March of this year, so I never had any of those perks, and were I not on forums like these would have no idea of their past existence. I always heard/knew of Disney being an expensive trip but with high value, and my experience (both in price and value) matched my expectations. Without having the comparison to the past, I did find value and a great time in the current offerings.

I think the price increases with decrease in value for what you get are only known about and evident for those who have been on previous trips, and seeing what is posted here the decline is blatantly evident. But for the "newbie"/average traveler who is not frequenting the forums or obsessively researching the past, they have only their current experience to pass judgement on.

I think Disney is banking on there being enough customers from this group to continue supporting and justifying the continuous price hikes accompanied by reduction in services.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It's interesting seeing the perspectives of those who have been going to Disney for years vs. those who only recently experienced it. My first trip/connection was March of this year, so I never had any of those perks, and were I not on forums like these would have no idea of their past existence. I always heard/knew of Disney being an expensive trip but with high value, and my experience (both in price and value) matched my expectations. Without having the comparison to the past, I did find value and a great time in the current offerings.

I think the price increases with decrease in value for what you get are only known about and evident for those who have been on previous trips, and seeing what is posted here the decline is blatantly evident. But for the "newbie"/average traveler who is not frequenting the forums or obsessively researching the past, they have only their current experience to pass judgement on.

I think Disney is banking on there being enough customers from this group to continue supporting and justifying the continuous price hikes accompanied by reduction in services.

I think this is absolutely true, I experienced the same when I started going to the parks in 2013, I was blown away by how good the parks were and always found it odd when I’d come here and the “old timers” would be talking about the noticeable decline in park quality.

Maybe familiarity breeds contempt and Disneys always banked on new people replacing the “old timers” who’ve lost the magic and moved on.

 

[Keladry84]

Maybe familiarity breeds contempt and Disneys always banked on new people replacing the “old timers” who’ve lost the magic and moved on.

That's an interesting insight, and I think makes business sense for many businesses. The customer base will always rotate over time as circumstances change for people (assets, health, life circumstances, etc.)

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think this is absolutely true, I experienced the same when I started going to the parks in 2013, I was blown away by how good the parks were and always found it odd when I’d come here and the “old timers” would be talking about the noticeable decline in park quality.

Maybe familiarity breeds contempt and Disneys always banked on new people replacing the “old timers” who’ve lost the magic and moved on.

My wife started as a kid in 1971, I started as an adult in 1984. We are indeed old timers that are simply not priced out (yet), it’s only a matter of time for us.

We totally understand there is less value and yes less magic but we do still meet folks who are visiting for the first time.

The big question is, will these new folks come back with their kids and grandkids?

 

[Lilofan]

I still don't think it's unreasonable to ask for proof of disability. Most places in the UK/Europe ask like Disneyland Paris.

Note that Europe doesn’t have a disability act like we do in the USA.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Does it really matter whether it was intentional or not? The parks, resorts, restaurants and transportation have finally hit a level where they are comfortable enough to enjoy them. People aren't going to pay these high prices to be uncomfortable. If the company can't make an acceptable profit, they'll just have to keep raising prices and let the chips fall where they may.

That was not my most recent experience. The meal we ate this past summer at 1900 Park Fare was insanely overpriced ($60+ per person), and the buffet was considerably diminished from what was offered in the past. The characters have always been a bit of hit or miss at character meals, but the only bright spot this past summer was Mirabelle. The rest of the princesses seemed unhappy to be there.

The two girls seated at the table next to us were dressed at princesses, but the princesses couldn't even be bothered to stop by. Like, the girls were in tears (over being rejected by the princesses), and the family arrived with a birthday cake- so this was supposed to be a birthday celebration.

[Sadly, that's not the first time we've seen this happen at WDW. Something very similar happened the last time we ate at Akershus (in 2019). The little girl at the table next to us was ignored by the princesses, and she was wearing a birthday sash in full princess dress. At the end of the meal she kept asking her dad why the princesses didn't want to talk to her. ]

In prior years we had many fun meals at 1900 Park Fare. The stepsisters were always a hoot, and the food was overpriced, but we came away happy and full. This past summer, we came away hungry. From a buffet! It was THAT bad.

Nope. I still like the rides, but WDW's TS meal quality is in sad state.