Post-1984 Magic Kingdom Attraction Quality

[KINGLOUIS1993]

I have been going to WDW since 94, so I missed the pre-Eisner time. But for me, MK is as much if not more fun than 94. I cant say that for the other two parks from that time, but I can say that for MK.

There are things that are missed from that time period, but all in all, MK is a very good park today.

The HoP is better, though I haven't seen the most recent version yet.

PhilharMagic is still amazing to me.

SDMT is just okay for me, the ride itself just falls short.

Pooh replaced Mr. Toad, I like Pooh but I fell in love with Toad and miss it greatly.

Little Mermaid, this has been beaten to death, we ride it every visit but it is a below average ride.

Aladdin is also okay, in 94 there was nothing there but concrete, so its an addition not a take away. I think I like it because in 2013 my wife and I were on it when the Holiday Wishes were going and the CM let us ride three times and we watched the show from here and it was pretty cool.

I love the Muppet's Present, this is an awesome addition and we always try to catch both shows.

We haven't done Tales with Belle yet, we plan to do it this year.

Buzz would be better if they maintained the ride. I like it but my wife hates it. Of course that is because she doesn't have my mad skills.

Monster Inc is a must attraction for us and it would be better if they would change the main script more. That would definitely give it more life.

Stitch's, don't even get me started. The only thing worse at WDW probably is Dino-Rama.

What I miss:

Swiss Family Tree House, only because my Nephews and I had a lot of fun on it.

Mickey's House, it was charming.

Dream-Flight. I don't know why, I just do.

AE, it was really awesome.

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, I miss this one the most.

The Skyway, flying over Fantasyland and Tomorrowland was the best.

For the record, I do not miss 20,000 Leagues, it was just to plain for me.

I miss Mickey's house too

 

[geekza]

Sorry, I don't think its a matter of proving you wrong or right, simply put the things you guys seem concerned with I really don't think people give a hoot about. "original" so called "creative" rides? People seem to want the Harry Potters and the marvel land. The size of a tower?? could care less.

If that's the case, I think it says more about what people have been conditioned to accept. By all means, if people are content with mediocrity, the corporation you described will be happy to deliver it and take an ever-increasing share of their money. I don't believe it is sustainable.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Lol I feel bad for the poor sap because there is nothing he can do to win this expectation.
I firmly believe that there is no going "back". I work for a big fortune 100 chemical company located in De. lol been in business since the american revolution, when I got hired it was the "golden" age of employees. Great healthcare, I'm one of the last mohicans that gets a pension from a private company, company really cared about it's employees, free turkeys at the holidays etc etc. let's fast forward to today, enough said or politicians that promise the poor coal workers that they will "return" the industry to it's former glory. simply not going to happen.

Let me ask you, what do folks who are waiting for his successor, hope to have happen??

I work for a Fortune 15 company, so I have experience in large organizations. The CEO matters. The CEO can change company culture. The CEO implements the strategic plan and executes it with his direct reports. It's the CEO's job to worry about everything. It's the CEO's job to delegate things he can't do himself which is practically everything. Iger made up to $40M in a year during his tenure, so he's plenty well compensated to not get mulligans on certain parts of the business.

Iger has been a fantastic "deal making" CEO, but you can see his lack of vision at WDW has hurt the quality of the park. He relied on price increases (I'm fine with that) and the geniuses before him that physically built the greatness we still enjoy.

I'd forgive it all if the stock performed better, but ESPN is a major problem that alone has caused DIS stock to languish for 3 years, underperforming the market significantly (ask me how I know). Disney was slow to the streaming game and NFLX has passed DIS in market value. Do I think that's right? Not really, but the price is the price. Disney needed to show growth in growing markets like streaming and produce content at ESPN that people want to see instead of pushing a political agenda. He spent (probably wasted) billions on tech for MagicBands that has come nowhere near to paying off in any meaningful way, and it's only used at WDW.

I don't think any of us care about pensions, health insurance, and former glory of companies of yesteryear. That ship has sailed (at my company too) and it's a reality of business today. The fact companies no longer offer pensions and free turkey has nothing to do with the quality of products and services that companies produce.

Iger flatly could have and should have done at a better job at WDW. He let DHS essentially die, closed half the park, and took forever to build out the additions. He almost let EPCOT die, which still struggles mightily today to meet the expectations of an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. Magic Kingdom is plagued with insane crowds most of the year those capacity issues are caused by unfinished projects, closures, and lack of expansion at the other 3 gates.

Iger was focused on IP acquisition, worldwide expansion (Shanghai), margin expansion, and profit milking. The lack of investment in the future for so long has caused this "scramble" at EPCOT and DHS to build out 2 parks that were essentially dead for a decade. I defended them, loved them, and paid money to attend, but they are nothing like before and they could have been with a better CEO. We've seen it happen.

 

[eliza61nyc]

If that's the case, I think it says more about what people have been conditioned to accept. By all means, if people are content with mediocrity, the corporation you described will be happy to deliver it and take an ever-increasing share of their money. I don't believe it is sustainable.

Maybe, maybe not. but here's the thing, as we get older (those of us who remember the previous versions) "mediocrity" gets harder and harder to define. It's like the example with my company. as more and more of us "older" workers leave, the youngins remember less and less about getting pensions, 9 months PAID maternity (I was out for a full year with my first kid, now you get 8 weeks UNPAID leave) and all the goodies. Now for them, this is their reality.
Now you say the parks are "mediocre", people like me, who have never been during these golden years tend to disagree. I absolutely don't think the product is mediocre, like I always say, the moment the vacations stop thrilling me, I move on but again I don't have the emotional connection that you have. for me it's a great product and a decent price offering.

why isn't it sustainable?? also remember that the parks do not have to be as good as they supposedly were in 19___ all they have to do is deliver a better product than their competitors. IMO for it to not be sustainable a few things have to happen. 1) the price gets so crazy that attendance drops off dramatically. don't think that's going to happen any time soon. Disney isn't stupid, look at the history of the last couple of years. slow times??? lol the mouse world took care of that by offering stuff like free dining, bounce back discounts etc etc.
2) the product quality drops off that the general public thinks it's lousy. that's a bit more objective.

So at least for the next 25 years (barring something happening to the economy that is out of Disney's control) I think this is what you will have.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I work for a Fortune 15 company, so I have experience in large organizations. The CEO matters. The CEO can change company culture. The CEO implements the strategic plan and executes it with his direct reports. It's the CEO's job to worry about everything. It's the CEO's job to delegate things he can't do himself which is practically everything. Iger made up to $40M in a year during his tenure, so he's plenty well compensated to not get mulligans on certain parts of the business.

Iger has been a fantastic "deal making" CEO, but you can see his lack of vision at WDW has hurt the quality of the park. He relied on price increases (I'm fine with that) and the geniuses before him that physically built the greatness we still enjoy.

I'd forgive it all if the stock performed better, but ESPN is a major problem that alone has caused DIS stock to languish for 3 years, underperforming the market significantly (ask me how I know). Disney was slow to the streaming game and NFLX has passed DIS in market value. Do I think that's right? Not really, but the price is the price. Disney needed to show growth in growing markets like streaming and produce content at ESPN that people want to see instead of pushing a political agenda. He spent (probably wasted) billions on tech for MagicBands that has come nowhere near to paying off in any meaningful way, and it's only used at WDW.

I don't think any of us care about pensions, health insurance, and former glory of companies of yesteryear. That ship has sailed (at my company too) and it's a reality of business today. The fact companies no longer offer pensions and free turkey has nothing to do with the quality of products and services that companies produce.

Iger flatly could have and should have done at a better job at WDW. He let DHS essentially die, closed half the park, and took forever to build out the additions. He almost let EPCOT die, which still struggles mightily today to meet the expectations of an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. Magic Kingdom is plagued with insane crowds most of the year those capacity issues are caused by unfinished projects, closures, and lack of expansion at the other 3 gates.

Iger was focused on IP acquisition, worldwide expansion (Shanghai), margin expansion, and profit milking. The lack of investment in the future for so long has caused this "scramble" at EPCOT and DHS to build out 2 parks that were essentially dead for a decade. I defended them, loved them, and paid money to attend, but they are nothing like before and they could have been with a better CEO. We've seen it happen.

And the point? I'm not arguing that the parks "coulda, shoulda, woulda" been better. I don't waste time on prognostication or monday morning quaterbacking especially basing it on 1984!!

My point about pension wasn't to equate it to quality it was to simply say that there is no going back.

Again, if when you take a vacation and the only thing you can come back and post is about some "glorious" time in the past that is NOT IMO coming back.

Really don't know what to tell you, as I say I didn't go pre 1984. If going to the world and then coming back and complaining about the "quality" is good for you, that's absolutely cool. Personally I love them, I love the IP's and if I had my wish we'd get Wakanda as the next pavilion in Epcot. so maybe I should not comment because I've got no horse in the "it was better before" race.

So I'll agree with you Yes, I guess the parks could have been and should have been better.

Here's hoping you guys can find the joy in the parks.

 

[Hayley In Wonderland]

Does the MK Space Ranger Spin break down a lot? The one in Paris has broken down for around 10 minutes every single time i've been on there. Am I right in thinking that the one in Florida used to just has a wire attached to the gun and you could move it freely? Is this still a thing or am I making it up entirely?

 

[danyoung56]

The one in Disneyland has a cable connection - you can pick up the gun and hold it. The one in the Magic Kingdom is connected to the vehicle - you can only swivel it.

 

[SuperStretccch]

Does the MK Space Ranger Spin break down a lot? The one in Paris has broken down for around 10 minutes every single time i've been on there. Am I right in thinking that the one in Florida used to just has a wire attached to the gun and you could move it freely? Is this still a thing or am I making it up entirely?

Florida's is the only version that has the guns mounted to the vehicle, as it was the first version of the ride. In the versions at other parks which are newer, the gun can be removed and is only attached to the vehicle by a cable.

 

[righttrack]

WDW is going through a period like it went through in the late 70s (pre Epcot) where it needs to experience outgrowth to accommodate the crowds and desire for fun. Back then it was space, lodging and capacity. Today there is plenty of space, just a dearth of attractions based on all of the IPs they now own. I think once a lot of the things they are working on come to fruition, we are going to see that resurgence that we saw in the early 90s where there was an equalization of space, lodging, capacity and attractions.

 

[geekza]

Maybe, maybe not. but here's the thing, as we get older (those of us who remember the previous versions) "mediocrity" gets harder and harder to define. It's like the example with my company. as more and more of us "older" workers leave, the youngins remember less and less about getting pensions, 9 months PAID maternity (I was out for a full year with my first kid, now you get 8 weeks UNPAID leave) and all the goodies. Now for them, this is their reality.

That goes back to my point, though. The newer workers at your company accept the current situation because it is the only one they've ever known. That doesn't mean that things weren't better in the past and that people should expect at least the same level of benefits, especially when they are now expected to work longer and harder.

Disney set a level of quality during the first thirty years of their parks' existence and there is no reason why customers should accept anything less today, especially when the cost of going to the parks has ballooned. The fact that you are happy with what is there now is only because you have no firsthand knowledge of the quality of the experience in the past. It's a matter of looking at things objectively as opposed to subjectively. There is no reason to expect and accept a lesser experience. Disney does listen to their guests if enough of them make noise. I make noise. Will my single voice make a difference? Nope. However, if enough of us make noise, especially when we make a point of contacting guest services when something is damaging the experience, the odds of mistakes being corrected go up.

 

[eliza61nyc]

That goes back to me point, though. The newer workers at your company accept the current situation because it is the only one they've ever known. That doesn't mean that things weren't better in the past and that people should expect at least the same level of benefits, especially when they are now expected to work longer and harder.

Disney set a level of quality during the first thirty years of their parks' existence and there is no reason why customers should accept anything less today, especially when the cost of going to the parks has ballooned. The fact that you are happy with what is there now is only because you have no firsthand knowledge of the quality of the experience in the past. It's a matter of looking at things objectively as opposed to subjectively. There is no reason to expect and accept a lesser experience. Disney does listen to their guests if enough of them make noise. I make noise. Will my single voice make a difference? Nope. However, if enough of us make noise, especially when we make a point of contacting guest services when something is damaging the experience, the odds of mistakes being corrected go up.

God bless you, lol you've got way more faith in corporations than I have. although I'm a cynical NY'er. I think businesses listen to the bottom line, when enough folks stop going to the mouseworld then they will try and figure out what's going on and make the kind of changes you're wishing for. My faith in the powers that be is nil. Iger is sticking around until 2019 and reportedly going to consult for 3 years afterward. Outside of the increase in price, most folks are happy .
Shareholders are set to vote late July on the fox acquisition which will probably go through, I'm voting yep. which will mean more IP's. so I don't see that trend reversing any time soon.

Didn't some one here post a chart with park growth at one time? gotta dig that information up.

 

[geekza]

God bless you, lol you've got way more faith in corporations than I have. although I'm a cynical NY'er. I think businesses listen to the bottom line, when enough folks stop going to the mouseworld then they will try and figure out what's going on and make the kind of changes you're wishing for. My faith in the powers that be is nil. Iger is sticking around until 2019 and reportedly going to consult for 3 years afterward. Outside of the increase in price, most folks are happy .

Didn't some one here post a chart with park growth at one time? gotta dig that information up.

Oh, I have no faith in corporations. I used to work for a Fortune 10 company. lol. I'm well aware of how they run. You are correct that they respond to the bottom line. However, vocal customers are also a useful tool for predicting how the bottom line will be affected in the future.

 

[Chef Mickey]

And the point? I'm not arguing that the parks "coulda, shoulda, woulda" been better. I don't waste time on prognostication or monday morning quaterbacking especially basing it on 1984!!

My point about pension wasn't to equate it to quality it was to simply say that there is no going back.

Again, if when you take a vacation and the only thing you can come back and post is about some "glorious" time in the past that is NOT IMO coming back.

Really don't know what to tell you, as I say I didn't go pre 1984. If going to the world and then coming back and complaining about the "quality" is good for you, that's absolutely cool. Personally I love them, I love the IP's and if I had my wish we'd get Wakanda as the next pavilion in Epcot. so maybe I should not comment because I've got no horse in the "it was better before" race.

So I'll agree with you Yes, I guess the parks could have been and should have been better.

Here's hoping you guys can find the joy in the parks.

I guess you aren't reading what I write, because I never said I don't love the parks. I love the parks more than most people here. I told you I've defended them, bought annual passes living 1,000 miles away, and continue to go 3-5 times/yr.

The parks ARE still great and so great even Iger/Chapek can't ruin them. I'm just saying they could be so much more with as much time has passed. The magic is still there, but the issues at DHS and EPCOT the last 10 years are inexcusable.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I guess you aren't reading what I write, because I never said I don't love the parks. I love the parks more than most people here. I told you I've defended them, bought annual passes living 1,000 miles away, and continue to go 3-5 times/yr.

The parks ARE still great and so great even Iger/Chapek can't ruin them. I'm just saying they could be so much more with as much time has passed. The magic is still there, but the issues at DHS and EPCOT the last 10 years are inexcusable.

Ok?? I understood. lol I've always said I have a disconnect with some posters. folks who say the love the parks and have a good time yet all they do is complain. go figure. usually when I constantly complain about a place it's because I don't like it. this is new for me.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Ok?? I understood. lol I've always said I have a disconnect with some posters. folks who say the love the parks and have a good time yet all they do is complain. go figure. usually when I constantly complain about a place it's because I don't like it. this is new for me.

Didn't sound like you understood. I have ~4,000 messages here and most of them have been complimentary of WDW. You're acting like my criticism of Iger (which I objectively explained) means "all I do is complain." This interchange is certainly not representative of my overall tenor on this board.

 

[STITCHGEFAN]

To answer the OP, the two eras couldn't really live without the other. Disney parks
are a bit like soaps. You have your old guard who provide the nostalgia, and your new characters who are more relatable to your younger, newer audience. I think MK has that down to a tee right now. Rides I grew up loving - Buzz and PhilharMagic - will slowly become nostalgia acts. Eventually, they'll move on and be replaced by newer, more modern attractions. By then, there will be newer attractions that current kids love that will fill their role. Currently, MK has a fantastic cycle. When Tron opens, Space takes on a new role in the park. The cycle, heck we can call it the circle of life, continues.

EPCOT and HS, however, are different. EPCOT has been lazy, all their 'new' attractions are remakes of previous rides, but it's still the same ride. TT, Soarin', FEA, Mexico, all that's happened is rides have closed. Thankfully, the new attractions, plus the additional enhancements teased, should extinguish that.

HS remains problematic, even when the new attractions are sorted, there is an over saturation of attractions past their sell-by date. For me, they will have to be pro-active in replacing these once current construction is done.

 

[geekza]

To answer the OP, the two eras couldn't really live without the other. Disney parks
are a bit like soaps. You have your old guard who provide the nostalgia, and your new characters who are more relatable to your younger, newer audience. I think MK has that down to a tee right now. Rides I grew up loving - Buzz and PhilharMagic - will slowly become nostalgia acts. Eventually, they'll move on and be replaced by newer, more modern attractions. By then, there will be newer attractions that current kids love that will fill their role. Currently, MK has a fantastic cycle. When Tron opens, Space takes on a new role in the park. The cycle, heck we can call it the circle of life, continues.

Oh, I agree. The parks couldn't and shouldn't remain stagnant and continue to pull in guests. Some attractions, though old, are evergreen and entertain current guests and older guests alike. Some attractions were great when they were devised, but simply aren't capable of holding up, even if they were refurbed. I guess what I would like to see is the goal of every new attraction (D or E Ticket) be striving for "evergreen" status. Certainly, not every one will be able to succeed in that goal, but some will and the rest will at least be of higher quality than an attraction that has had very little effort put into it. Better to aim high and fall short than to aim for the middle and automatically eliminate the possibility of achieving greatness.