POLL: Which do you prefer? Upsells or layoffs

[Horizons '83]

Sea World just announced yesterday that they are laying off hundreds of workers to save only $40 Million dollars. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-seaworld-layoffs-20161206-story.html

Ironic, given that Sea World just opened a brand new state of the art roller coaster called Mako and announced plans for another new attraction. Everyone talks about wanting "new rides" but there is more to theme parks than just rides.

I always see people praising Sea World and claiming that it is a better value -- but, the park is dying.

And, all the experts say this is so bizarre because all of the other theme parks are booming right now.

Also, Universal has filed a patent to use drones and Magic Bands called Tapu Tapu bands at Volcano Bay. http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/...l-seeks-to-use-drones-in-shows-wearables.html

There are many people who claim to know so much about business and constantly criticize Disney's business practices but really don't know anything. And, this is the proof.

What experts are these? Sea World is dying because of Blackfish. Make no mistake.

 

[Siren]

The entire premise of this poll is mistaken as it proceeds from a series of false assumptions.

First, and by your own admission (above), Disney is not seeing the decline in attendance which Sea World has experienced. There is no call for layoffs; This isn't an either/or proposition. The issues with attendance at Walt Disney World are isolated and almost completely of the company's own making, specifically closing much of a theme park combined with ever higher prices.

Second, there is absolutely no evidence or reason to believe all the "upsells" and added charges are anything but a money grab. Greed is at wok here; An attempt to make the financial numbers look better than they really are. Fundamentally, it is little different than selling off land or closing attractions so the executives can look good (as opposed to the buffoons they may appear to be). Disney wants its guests to spend more money, that's no secret. They aren't doing these things to protect Cast Member jobs or to avoid "sticking it" to the "regular" guests.

Finally, exactly how is it that you think this "proves" anything with regard to (completely justified and objectively argued) criticism of Walt Disney World's business practices? The company (often) honestly appears to not understand the business it is engaged in, the needs and wants of its customers, or respect for its history and legacy which has created present success and which should point the way to the future. Seriously bone-headed or just misguided business decisions don't require a degree to understand; They're plainly visible to a blind man, wearing a blindfold, at midnight in a dark, windowless room with no lights.

Hi @CDavid! Thank you for such an articulate and insightful post. You have given me a lot to chew on. LOL.

Disney has recently seen a slight decline in attendance, but profits have soared. So, a decline in attendance does not have to result in profit loss and layoffs.

Disney has been proactive in employing an effective strategy to counter and offset potential losses, which in part, entails going after those disposable coins.

Sea World is just focused on the end game -- they want to throw the ball 50 yards and score the touchdown. Disney is playing both -- the running game and the passing game - they are going inch for inch with upsells and yard for yard with new lands, shows and attractions. Disney is not above going after the little dollars because it does add up.

So, in essence my question is -- which current approach to business do you prefer? Disney's upsells or Sea World's new attractions coupled with layoffs.

I can see that you are currently upset with Disney's recent business practices, but I find Sea World's layoff's to be unnecessary and far worse.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are many people who claim to know so much about business and constantly criticize Disney's business practices but really don't know anything. And, this is the proof.

All you have proof of is your own lack of understanding regarding the business and this situation. Upcharges have their own costs, they are not automatic pure profit. Upcharge events won't cover positions at Deep Blue Creative. They won't fix deep, structural issues that SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment was unprepared to handle when they were sold by Anheiser-Busch.

If there was any relationship then Disney wouldn't still be trying to cut costs at Walt Disney Imagineering. Disney would not have laid off Inagineers earlier this year.

 

[danlb_2000]

Hi @CDavid! Thank you for such an articulate and insightful post. You have given me a lot to chew on. LOL.

Disney has recently seen a slight decline in attendance, but profits have soared. So, a decline in attendance does not have to result in profit loss and layoffs.

Disney has been proactive in employing an effective strategy to counter and offset potential losses, which in part, entails going after those disposable coins.

Sea World is just focused on the end game -- they want to throw the ball 50 yards and score the touchdown. Disney is playing both -- the running game and the passing game - they are going inch for inch with upsells and yard for yard with new lands, shows and attractions. Disney is not above going after the little dollars because it does add up.

So, in essence my question is -- which current approach to business do you prefer? Disney's upsells or Sea World's new attractions coupled with layoffs.

I can see that you are currently upset with Disney's recent business practices, but I find Sea World's layoff's to be unnecessary and far worse.

There is a limit to how large an attendance loss you can offset by passing the loss on to the remaining customers. Disney attendance loss has been small so they have managed to make that up by getting the remaining to spend more. If they were to see a 10% loss year over year you can be sure there would be layoffs. The extra money Disney is making is also not just coming from upcharges, it's coming from general price increases.

 

[Tom Morrow]

SeaWorld needs to focus on getting people back through the gates. Upsells do nothing if people aren't coming to begin with. Disney attendance, though dipping a bit this year, is still soaring and they can afford to try these upsells because there is very little risk, and since people will probably take the bait, a lot of reward.

SeaWorld, sadly, has been an absolute ghost town on most days lately.

If this thread has to exist, it belongs in the Sea World forum. The OP tries to connect the Sea World layoffs to Disney but since the comparison makes no sense whatsoever, all this really amounts to is complaining about Sea World layoffs. The notion that Disney is upselling to save jobs is the single most absurd thing I have heard today.

Absolutely. Let's not pretend that WDW hasn't done a few of their own mass-layoffs in the last decade.

 

[rct247]

Disney isn't going for a massive layoff to ruin it's public image. Instead, they have just cut staffing budgets and as people leave, less get hired. Areas are seeing reduced hours and reduced labor with or without crowds. That is already happening and it isn't considered a layoff.

 

[Tom Morrow]

If you're replying to me, Disney has done at least two mass layoffs that caught the attention of the public within the last 10 years.

 

[Siren]

Well, not management....

Hi @wm49rs! OMG. Not anything. LOL.

Third option. They make enough profit as it is.

And this is not WDW and Rumours.

Hi @marni1971! How much is enough profit? Do you go to work everyday and say I just want to earn "enough" money?

OMG - the only difference? Disney's market capitalization at roughly $150 billion Sea world is roughly around 1.6 billion. Disney parks get roughly 138 millions visitors a year and growing Sea world parks 22 million and stagnant. The reason why we talk about universal and Disney is because universal is owned by Comcast which is playing on the same street as Disney. They are at the adult table. Sea World isn't even invited for dinner.

I honestly feel like you are making excuses for Sea World. It's been like three years since Blackfish and that is a very long time.

Sea World is constantly brought up on this forum as a "model" that Disney should follow. So, I am simply highlighting that their model is a failing one.

Disney has since experienced and overcome the unfortunate gator issues and all the blame and controversy that surrounded it. The night club shooting, guns at the parks, the layoffs of American workers who were forced to train their foreign replacements and so much more.

You can't make excuses for Sea World forever. Their issues extend way beyond Blackfish.

They aren't just firing hundreds of people, Its 320 positions across all parks and corporate headquarters, including the elimation of vacant positions. So some of the decision making could just be based around the fact they don't need to recruit as many people to work in ticket booths as people are buying tickets online.

Its quite possible that one of the reasons DisneyWorld's margins are up is that they have also eliminated some vacant roles and are recruiting fewer people. One of the easiest ways to protect profits is to avoid recruitment of staff you don't need.

I totally agree, it is yet another effective strategy to counter the possibility of layoffs. So, I can understand if this is a slow time or there is a downturn in tourism, but that is not the case here.

Yet in your first post you mentioned SeaWorld have opened new rides recently, surely building the tallest coaster in Orlando is a risk and a new experiance for visitors to Florida?

I also highlighted that the new coaster was not enough to increase attendance or profits and that there is more to running a theme park than just building new rides.

You can't put all of your eggs in one basket. And, this applies to business and life.

Disney's profit is increasing because they are spreading out the loss from that attendance over all the remaining visitors by way of higher costs. That only works to a point, if you loose to much attendance you will not be able to make it up that way.

Hi @danlb_2000! As always, I totally agree with you. However, unhappy guests don't spend money. In this instance, a decrease in crowds resulted in an increase in spending and higher guest satisfaction overall. So, this sounds like a win-win to me.

I must have a lot of people on block

LOL. Who do you have on block? I just recently added some more to mine. LOL.

What experts are these? Sea World is dying because of Blackfish. Make no mistake.

Hi @TJ Vazquez! I totally agree that Sea World was damaged badly by Blackfish, but Sea World played a larger role in nailing themselves to the floor. Their "Ask Sea World" campaign was a disaster. I never heard of Blackfish until I saw Sea World constantly talking about it.

Business is tough, there will always be someone who will attempt to destroy your business, whether it be rumors or someone attempting to capitalize on a unfortunate incident. Sea World's approach to Blackfish is what ruined them.

Look, at McDonald's -- the "Super Size Me" documentary damaged them so bad, even worse than Blackfish did to Sea World. Yet, McDonald's was able to effectively strategize and eventually overcome those difficulties by placing emphasis on new product offerings and updating their infrastructure.

All you have proof of is your own lack of understanding regarding the business and this situation. Upcharges have their own costs, they are not automatic pure profit. Upcharge events won't cover positions at Deep Blue Creative. They won't fix deep, structural issues that SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment was unprepared to handle when they were sold by Anheiser-Busch.

If there was any relationship then Disney wouldn't still be trying to cut costs at Walt Disney Imagineering. Disney would not have laid off Inagineers earlier this year.

Not even air is automatic pure profit. I'm not suggesting that. However, Sea World's business practices in a booming economy is questionable to me.

I mean, there are like people literally building Ferris Wheels and Roller Coasters on the side of the road in Orlando, to get a slice of the pie -- competition is fierce. And, it's clear that some are more hungry than others.

Sea World has a huge following of loyal guests, they should not be losing money or attendance. It's all in their marketing, in my humble opinion.

There is a limit to how large an attendance loss you can offset by passing the loss on to the remaining customers. Disney attendance loss has been small so they have managed to make that up by getting the remaining to spend more. If they were to see a 10% loss year over year you can be sure there would be layoffs. The extra money Disney is making is also not just coming from upcharges, it's coming from general price increases.

You have excellent points. But, I have to ask -- what is keeping Sea World from doing the same?

Why can't Sea World undergo a SWOT Analysis and look at what Disney and what some of the other parks are doing to stay afloat. How long can they reasonably blame Blackfish for their woes?

I totally love Sea World and I see nothing but potential and opportunity for them in Orlando.

Competition in Orlando is so steep but Sea World is a worthwhile experience, that is fun and unique in and of itself. They are going to have to be creative in marketing that and also offering more experiences.

This is a poll about Disney, why is it in the Sea World forum!

LOL, you are too funny. I'm actually glad it's here. The Sea World forum could totally use some new topics.

 

[Siren]

I've seen commercials from like the Peace Corps that are more exhilarating. Like, I'd almost rather go and volunteer somewhere than go to Sea World. LOL. I didn't go to Sea World on my last trip but I miss it so much and will go next time.

SeaWorld needs to focus on getting people back through the gates. Upsells do nothing if people aren't coming to begin with. Disney attendance, though dipping a bit this year, is still soaring and they can afford to try these upsells because there is very little risk, and since people will probably take the bait, a lot of reward.

SeaWorld, sadly, has been an absolute ghost town on most days lately.


Absolutely. Let's not pretend that WDW hasn't done a few of their own mass-layoffs in the last decade.

Very well said. But, this is also so sad to me.

Disney is known for doing special and unique things for guests that create a buzz and send people racing to the gates.

So maybe, Sea World should do something like The Year of a Million Dreams or something exciting like that to create special memories.

I don't get it because people love animals so much.

Sea World may have to strike a cord with people's heart strings and make them want to see and bond with those amazing, beautiful creatures before it's too late or something like that.

If you're replying to me, Disney has done at least two mass layoffs that caught the attention of the public within the last 10 years.

But, was it during the highest tourism ever seen in Florida and Orlando and the theme park industry as a whole?

That's why this is so odd. And, it is raising red flags across the board. Sea World should not be failing when everyone else is thriving.

 

[danlb_2000]

Hi @wm49rs!

You have excellent points. But, I have to ask -- what is keeping Sea World from doing the same?

Why can't Sea World undergo a SWOT Analysis and look at what Disney and what some of the other parks are doing to stay afloat. How long can they reasonably blame Blackfish for their woes?

.

Disney and the other parks are not doing anything special to "stay afloat", they all have strong attendance. If Disney were to freeze prices and cut out all the up charges they would likely still remain profitable. Blackfish went after one of the most iconic parts of Sea World so that will be hard to recover from. They could eventually but who knows how long it will take.

 

[George]

All you have proof of is your own lack of understanding regarding the business and this situation. Upcharges have their own costs, they are not automatic pure profit. Upcharge events won't cover positions at Deep Blue Creative. They won't fix deep, structural issues that SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment was unprepared to handle when they were sold by Anheiser-Busch.

If there was any relationship then Disney wouldn't still be trying to cut costs at Walt Disney Imagineering. Disney would not have laid off Inagineers earlier this year.

Well, the new "Cash in the Bucket" event only has the associated cost of the bucket. For me, watching the Ulysses S. Grant float gently on the wind before it nestles into the amazingly frontier like bottom of the bucket is extraordinarily magical and worth every penny.

 

[wm49rs]

Well, the new "Cash in the Bucket" event only has the associated cost of the bucket. For me, watching the Ulysses S. Grant float gently on the wind before it nestles into the amazingly frontier like bottom of the bucket is extraordinarily magical and worth every penny.

Only a Grant? Peasant....

 

[George]

Only a Grant? Peasant....

Well me and the missus have been saving up for the Ben Franklin Bucket if you must know. Geez, you elitists are ruining everything.

Edit to add: At least we're not hanging out with the weirdos at the Andrew Jackson tub.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sea World has a huge following of loyal guests, they should not be losing money or attendance. It's all in their marketing, in my humble opinion.

Because you don't actually understand the depth of their problems. They go far beyond attendance and the past couple of years.

 

[21stamps]

I've seen commercials from like the Peace Corps that are more exhilarating. Like, I'd almost rather go and volunteer somewhere than go to Sea World. LOL. I didn't go to Sea World on my last trip but I miss it so much and will go next time.
Very well said. But, this is also so sad to me.

Disney is known for doing special and unique things for guests that create a buzz and send people racing to the gates.

So maybe, Sea World should do something like The Year of a Million Dreams or something exciting like that to create special memories.

I don't get it because people love animals so much.

Sea World may have to strike a cord with people's heart strings and make them want to see and bond with those amazing, beautiful creatures before it's too late or something like that.


But, was it during the highest tourism ever seen in Florida and Orlando and the theme park industry as a whole?

That's why this is so odd. And, it is raising red flags across the board. Sea World should not be failing when everyone else is thriving.

When people think of SeaWorld they automatically think of Shamu. It's their most iconic representation...and most people's memories of the park.

In a world of PETA brainwashed madness you think 3 years is enough to recover?

Maybe you didn't hear about Blackfish until it had been out for quite some time, not quite sure where or what you were doing then, but the rest of the country definitely heard about it.

It attacked SeaWorld at it's core. The resulting damage, sad and uncalled for in my opinion, is huge. For better or worse that park is now going thru an identity change.

The problem is - how do they transition without alienating their core visitors and fans, while appeasing the Blackfish crowd?

 

[Tom Morrow]

I think the SeaWorld parks may have to be renamed and re-branded completely to recover. The SeaWorld name is forever tainted, warranted or not (it's not).

 

[jt04]

Disney did layoffs and a reorg several years ago as a precursor to expansion. IE Pandora, Frozen, SWL, new parade, RoL, Disney Springs, Toy Story Land etc.

Sea World has a bunch of adds in the pipeline and is following the same business model albeit on a much smaller scale. And it will work.

I would love to see Sea World develop a resort hotel at the park. I think that is one of the missing ingredients to getting back to better profitability. IMO.

 

[Siren]

Getting back on topic, Sea World's Animal Rescue Team just rescued and saved this beautiful bottlenose dolphin, early Wednesday morning. Awww. http://spacecoastdaily.com/2016/12/...r-at-seaworld-orlandos-rehabilitation-center/

The dolphin arrived at SeaWorld Orlando at 12:15 a.m. on Wednesday and SeaWorld’s veterinarians and rescuers began to immediately care for the animal by providing fluids, antibiotics and conducting a complete health assessment.

The team has continued to monitor the dolphin since he arrived at SeaWorld Orlando to ensure his condition stabilized.

SeaWorld veterinarians say the dolphin is a strong swimmer – a positive sign. The team remains cautiously optimistic at this time, and hopeful the animal will continue to improve.

SeaWorld Orlando’s Animal Rescue Team is on call 24/7 to save and care for injured, orphaned or ill animals.

SeaWorld animal experts have helped more than 29,000 animals in need – ill, injured, orphaned and abandoned – for more than five decades.

ORLANDO, FLORIDA – SeaWorld Orlando’s Animal Rescue Team is currently providing round-the-clock care for a 7-foot, 205-pound male bottlenose dolphin who was brought to the SeaWorld Orlando Rehabilitation Center after being found stranded in Sanibel, Florida.

This is why I will always try to support Sea World -- they need more publicity for stuff like this, too. I think guests would love to see and visit this dolphin. I hope he recovers quickly.

 

[larryz]

Is it just the water refraction, or does that dolphin look severely emaciated?

 

[The Mom]

umm - it's a rescued dolphin, from the wild.
Which means it needs medical attention, so it is NOT a healthy dolphin - but will get treatment at Sea World.