Pointing is not allowed

Scar Junior

Active Member
On the WDWCP my pick line to other castmembers was ** hold two fingers up** "want to go practice the Disney Point?"

Haha, graphic. I know...

Another rumor about the origins of the Disney Point was that it exists because Walt was a smoker and he pointed with two fingers from habit. I don't know where people come up with this stuff?

Must've heard it from Jim Hill!
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
The cigarette rumor is actually true, but Disney likes to sugarcoat it with the "Impolite to certain cultures" story.

God forbid Walt should be remembered as he was...
 

echoscot

New Member
The cigarette rumor is actually true, but Disney likes to sugarcoat it with the "Impolite to certain cultures" story.

God forbid Walt should be remembered as he was...

phillipsa said:
the idea of the two finger point is not only that it is impolite in some cultures to point with one finger but also that a guest may believe that you are pointing at them with your single finger... the disney roots of this, as posted above, are definetly because of walt smoking. he would point with a cigarette in his hand and anytime this would be photographed they would erase the cigarette from the picture leaving only the two fingered point remaining


That's not true at all. Up until the late 80s early 90s nobody cared if Walt smoked. It didn't become "politically incorrect" to be seen with a cigarette until then. There are still numerous photos of Walt with a cigarette.

Also photoshop editors and stuff weren't readily available until the late 1990s.

I started working at the company in 1980 and we were taught about the "international culture" (diverse was also not a dominant political term then) and the need to be seen as polite. Pointing was considered rude in any culture.

This is a case of applying current thinking and philosophy to another time and culture and making assumptions that it was always that way.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
The cigarette thing has been confirmed in chats with Dave Smith and Marty Sklar.

Our Traditions coach also mentioned it in passing as one of the reasons for the two finger point...
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Wow. A thread about hand/finger gestures. All I can say is: wow.

I understand that Disney is the big mega-company with properties/parks spread out in other countries. I understand that a lot of the visitors that spend lots of money and travel long distances to visit WDW come from other countries. I understand these things. However, there is a part of this ongoing thinking/reasoning that totally perplexes me and the whole topic of hand/finger gestures and what they mean in other cultures brings that back up for me.

WDW is located in Florida..in the United States of America. If I were planning to travel to any destination abroad I would take it upon myself as part of my planning to understand the culture of my destination as well as basic laws, language, and other things that would aid me in functioning within the culture I am entering. In traveling to other countries part of the purpose is to expand one's perspective and experience the culture of that region. I would never presume to impose my culture upon anyone else or expect the people of the country I am traveling to educate themselves about me or where I come from so that they can behave according to my culture. If I went to another country and didn't like it I'd leave. I would never ask for special treatment or for anyone to change for me.

I've noticed it a lot at Disney but it's a way of thinking in general that we in the US are obligated to know and act according to everyone else's cultures, customs, etc. What about our culture? What about our customs? Why do we put ourselves aside? Do I think a CM pointing is rude? Well, my mother taught me that pointing at people is rude be it one finger or two, index finger or middle. If I see something that I approve of I'm giving it a thumbs up. If I feel the moment calls to show the hand gesture for peace or indicate the #2 then I'll hold up my two fingers. I see no reason to worry if someone from somewhere else thinks it's nice or not. It's appropriate here. If someone from somewhere else disapproves, not the problem of the culture they chose to place themselves within.

If you are in another city, state, country, etc. you are subject to the laws of that land. Same goes for culture, manners, language, and so on. If you run into trouble because you don't understand ignorance is no excuse. It is the responsibility of the traveler to know where they are going and educate themselves accordingly.

Am I alone in this thinking????

Then again, one could say that when inviting others to come into their homes it is the responsibility of the hosts to make them feel welcome. I would think this is the thought behind the extensive training of CMs in such trivial things as gestures. (((fellow guests are exempt so let those fingers fly...LOL...just kidding)))

And please don't take this as some bashing thing. I think the topic in general and how such simple gestures can mean such vastly different things by culture is quite fascinating.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Also, many many many maaaaaany years ago I worked for Walmart. I don't know if it is still part of their training, but when I worked there if a customer asked a Walmart Associate where something was located we were not allowed to point to where it is. We were required to show them. Pointing was supposed to mean big trouble. When I first started I was asked where things were so much I couldn't get any work done. Then I learned to be extremely descriptive without ever pointing a finger. :animwink:
 

Ckaitlin16

New Member
I'm a cast member

If I recall correclty from the Backstage Magic tour I took a few years ago they even have an name for the open handed move, the "human gesture."


I was taught that it was the Disney Point. And it's not just the rudeness either, it's easier to put one finder in an eye rather than 2 or a whole hand.
 

PLeyava

New Member
ABC and TDS. Also planning on moving to Florida soon to work for Disney there.

I'd love to meet you and discuss WDW in more detail. I can talk for hours about it and usually do! :D

I can talk about Disney for hours as well! I am a CM for WDW and it's awesome, so much fun!

And yes, to verify just one more time (lol), the Disney Point is addictive, and I cannot stop doing it myself. =D
 
Russia, in particular

BTW, I've always wondered what cultures consider pointing by one finger impolite?

It's odd how these days the divide between the English and Russian worlds is still pretty deep. I finally learned about this from going to St. Petersburg in 2007. The friend I was visiting quickly scolded me but I never got around to asking the specifics. It wasn't until I saw a funny BBC America commercial that I got confirmation that index finger pointing is especially rude in Russia. You'll see statues of Lenin using the open hand point. Even knowing this, I had to do some digging to find some blogs of English/Russian couples to further confirm this. A man was mortified when his Russian wife used her middle finger to point at an overhead during a meeting. It explained the odd habit of my Russian engineering professor of doing the same all the time. Pretty much any finger but the index one is evidently ok, though pointing at people is still rather discouraged.

I've even seen some photos of Russian youths "flicking off" the camera with the index finger, but oddly, I've seen some press photos of Putin gesturing with it. So I'm still a little baffled.

And at Russian club, when a Russian professor was doing the two-finger point for the guest speaker from St. Petersburg, I thought "Disney point." :)
 

Johnnypockets

New Member
When I worked at the Trump Palace in Miami we were required to use an open hand and a sweeping motion with our arm. I really don't think anyone noticed. I usually pointed because my position was secure and management needed me.
 

JamboJohn

New Member
There were several occasions when I wondered if I could use a loop hole that Disney never told me expressly which two fingers had to be used. There were a couple of occasions where I would have loved to have used one finger from each hand!!
 

SinginSarah

Member
Another similar thing:

At DAK, most CMs are given packs for storing rain gear or personal items, but in costuming we were told that we're not allowed to call them " packs" because as I was told "" is considered a curse word in Europe. We were to call them "belly bags" or "rain pouches".

However they did change the name on our computer system to " pack" about a month ago. I guess too many people were getting confused.
 

mikeymouse

Well-Known Member
Speaking of pointing ... it seems like all stop and go attractions have adopted the railroad signals when loading and unloading guests. arm up in the air means not safe to proceed. arm straight out to the side, open hand, means safe to proceed ... i think.

On the cigarette thing ... the movie in One Man's Dream shows Walt several times smoking.
 

E P C O T

Member
It's also impolite to show two fingers (as if you were saying two with your palm faced towards you) to a Brit. My husband had to drill that into me. However, old habits die hard and when I met his mother for the first time, she asked me how many sugars I'd like in my tea, I said two holding up my two fingers. The look of shock on her face was enough to remind me of my husband's warnings. I was absolutely mortified that I just made a rude gesture to my future mother in law. :brick: :lol:

I guess the rudeness behind it is that during a war with the French, the French would cut off two fingers of the British archers. So, as in insult, the French would hold up two fingers.

Er, interesting interpretation but to quote Wiki;
"The story claims that the French claimed that they would cut off the arrow-shooting fingers of all the English and Welsh longbowmen after they had won the battle at Agincourt. But the English came out victorious and showed off their two fingers, still intact."
 

jvarga8

New Member
real meaning of two finger point

the meaning behind the 2 finger point is, if you look at pictures of walt during construction phases of both disneyland and world u see he is pointing with two fingers well almost every picture u see of walt is been painted over! walt was a heavy smoker and had a cig between those fingers and in pics disney didnt want people seeing that so the airbrushed out the cig and VAWloa the 2 finger point and if u look carefully in some pictures u can see remains of smoke in the air too
 

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