Please try to be courteous...

[Sweet tears]

Like many of you, I have been fortunate enough to visit Disney World and Universal a number of times. My most recent visit was my first time using a mobility device. It was eye opening. Previously, I had visited the parks with extended family who needed to use mobility devices like strollers and ECV's, so I thought I had some idea. Nope.

PHEW!

First, I want to say that most of the staff at both Universal and WDW were wonderful and kind, especially the staff at Universal.

Second, a number of strangers were nice about holding doors. That kindness seems to have been instilled in many people. When it came to gates though, like the monorail gates, nope. Most people made NO effort to even hold the gate behind them at all. They just let it slam shut. I didn't expect anyone to actually stand and hold the gate open long enough for me to entirely pass through, but most folks couldn't even be bothered to hold it so it stayed open as they passed through. Just that extra second would have been very helpful.

What really surprised me was the experience of handicapped bathroom stalls. PLEASE be considerate when opting to use/not use the handicapped stall. There are a number of legitimate reasons people may need to use the larger stall, and we all sometimes have to wait our turn, but I'm also quite sure a number of folks choose the large stall for purely selfish reasons.

Please remember that wheelchair users have no choice but to use the larger stalls, and there is often only 1 stall. Time and again I found bathrooms with mostly empty stalls, EXCEPT the handicapped stall was being used by someone that likely did not need to use the larger stall. (Hint- they apologized on their way out or made a big effort to avoid making eye contact.) Other times, I waited a good while, but the wait was long, ahem. I found a way to hobble/hop into a regular stall. It was hard to hop on a wet floor on just one (tired) leg, but not every wheelchair user can do what I did.

I also encountered many stalls that were nasty. It was gross having to use a handrail after someone else left bathroom trash on the handrail. I also encountered a LOT of unflushed toilets. Eww! Mind, I'm not just thinking of my own needs. I was able to hobble into a regular stall, but many disabled folks can't. When using the handicapped stall, please make an effort to flush the toilet.

Mind, I didn't call anyone out. I'm just asking everyone to TRY to be considerate.

Out in the open, it was also crazy the number of people who cut me off, ran right in front of me, nearly trampled me, and some who even kicked/hit me- without apologizing. I thought I had seen plenty of discourteous behavior before, but this trip was truly eye-opening.

I was CONSTANTLY being cut-off, blocked, and I encountered a number of parents who actually PUSHED their children DIRECTLY in front of me, so that I had no choice but to immediately STOP to avoid running them over. And this was just like on a random path on the way through Epcot where there was PLENTY of room to walk on either side of me. Just wow!



Now that I've gotten all that off my chest, I greatly appreciate the folks who do take a moment out of their day to help. I've met some very kindhearted nurses, PT's, taxi drivers, and strangers who DID take a moment out of their day to help. Those little acts of kindness go a long way to make up for the folks who are less considerate.

I get it but what I don’t understand is why someone that is handicapped should get priority over anyone else that needs to use the facilities. If someone requiring the designated space I can understand but other than that explain to me why the facilities shouldn’t be available to the next customer.

 

[NelleBelle]

I get it but what I don’t understand is why someone that is handicapped should get priority over anyone else that needs to use the facilities. If someone requiring the designated space I can understand but other than that explain to me why the facilities shouldn’t be available to the next customer.

Good point! When I need it, I wait my turn and let the people behind me know I’m waiting for the HC-accessible stall and let them go ahead of me.

 

[mergatroid]

I get it but what I don’t understand is why someone that is handicapped should get priority over anyone else that needs to use the facilities. If someone requiring the designated space I can understand but other than that explain to me why the facilities shouldn’t be available to the next customer.

I'm a bit confused by your question here? Are you saying that if there's say 8 stalls and 1 is larger and for a person in a wheelchair and they're all occupied, that if there's somebody not in a wheelchair waiting that they should take the handicapped stall when it becomes available regardless of whether there's somebody behind them in a wheelchair or not?

If that's what you mean then personally I would always let the person in the wheelchair have that stall despite the fact they came in after me. The reason being that that one stall is likely their only option whereas there's 7 others I can wait to use. In life in general the person in a wheelchair likely has to wait longer for their stall as there's less of them so personally I'd just feel nicer letting them go ahead of me as that's their only option whereas there's lots of others I can use when they're available shortly.

 

[Ayla]

I'm a bit confused by your question here? Are you saying that if there's say 8 stalls and 1 is larger and for a person in a wheelchair and they're all occupied, that if there's somebody not in a wheelchair waiting that they should take the handicapped stall when it becomes available regardless of whether there's somebody behind them in a wheelchair or not?

If that's what you mean then personally I would always let the person in the wheelchair have that stall despite the fact they came in after me. The reason being that that one stall is likely their only option whereas there's 7 others I can wait to use. In life in general the person in a wheelchair likely has to wait longer for their stall as there's less of them so personally I'd just feel nicer letting them go ahead of me as that's their only option whereas there's lots of others I can use when they're available shortly.

Some people think the HA stall should only be used by those that can only use that stall. So, even if there is no one waiting in a wheelchair or EVC for that stall, it still should not be used.

The stalls are handicapped accessible, not handicapped exclusive. If there is no one that needs that stall and I'm next in line, you bet I'm using it.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I get it but what I don’t understand is why someone that is handicapped should get priority over anyone else that needs to use the facilities. If someone requiring the designated space I can understand but other than that explain to me why the facilities shouldn’t be available to the next customer.

That’s not what was said…all the stalls were empty and they used the handicapped stall instead of the other ones which they passed going to the handicapped stall. It was obvious the guest didn’t have a physical need for the stall. I’ve seen it happen multiple times not just at Disney

 

[osian]

I get it but what I don’t understand is why someone that is handicapped should get priority over anyone else that needs to use the facilities. If someone requiring the designated space I can understand but other than that explain to me why the facilities shouldn’t be available to the next customer.

I don't think that's what the OP is saying. They are asking for courtesy when there is a choice. Those with consideration and empathy for others would not choose the accessible stall, with a wheelchair user behind them, if there was a non-accessible stall available, even if they had every right to choose the accessible stall.

If there is no choice (the accessible stall is the only one available) then the OP acknowledges that wheelchair users do have to wait in line like everyone else, though again it is down to your conscience, and how desperate you are, as to whether you give up your place to the next in line.

Not a dissimilar argument to standing-room only on a bus. You are perfectly entitled to remain in your seat if there is obviously someone else having to stand who is struggling. But would you?

 

[mergatroid]

Some people think the HA stall should only be used by those that can only use that stall. So, even if there is no one waiting in a wheelchair or EVC for that stall, it still should not be used.

The stalls are handicapped accessible, not handicapped exclusive. If there is no one that needs that stall and I'm next in line, you bet I'm using it.

I get all of that. I'm trying to work out whether they're saying if there's somebody in a wheelchair who came in after they did that they would take the handicapped stall regardless when it became available rather than let the person in a wheelchair take it. Their statement kind of reads "Why should a handicapped person get priority, I'm taking that stall"?

 

[jaklgreen]

I'm a bit confused by your question here? Are you saying that if there's say 8 stalls and 1 is larger and for a person in a wheelchair and they're all occupied, that if there's somebody not in a wheelchair waiting that they should take the handicapped stall when it becomes available regardless of whether there's somebody behind them in a wheelchair or not?

If that's what you mean then personally I would always let the person in the wheelchair have that stall despite the fact they came in after me. The reason being that that one stall is likely their only option whereas there's 7 others I can wait to use. In life in general the person in a wheelchair likely has to wait longer for their stall as there's less of them so personally I'd just feel nicer letting them go ahead of me as that's their only option whereas there's lots of others I can use when they're available shortly.

From what I have seen, and I use the restroom a LOT because I have bladder issues, is that some people with mobility devices feel like they don't have to wait in line. That they can bypass the whole line and go straight to the accessible stall. If anyone should be able to do that is those who have medical conditions that makes it so they have to urgently go. But we wait our turn, so should everyone.

 

[JIMINYCR]

Sure it’s no big deal for those of you who see the HC stall as being open for you. The point is you have the option of using any of the other stalls . My DW has no option but to use the HC stall. You walk in and occupy the HC stall and we come in with my DW needing to use the bathroom and we now have to wait for you to finish. When you then take your time as we wait, she’s trying to hold her bladder or bowels. Once you leave, I must take time transferring her from her chair to the toilet taking more time.
It’s a matter of convenience for someone who is spending a lifetime in a chair. It’s a luxury for you to use a larger stall.
We have had to wait 20 minutes or more for a HC stall to open up before because it was occupied by a person with several children. When there were plenty of other stalls unoccupied.
Think about how you would have to handle the world from a chair and how many things are against you.
We’ve had to fight for HC seating on Dis buses before because guests were sitting in the HC area and didn’t want to give the seat up.
Yeah life su@@s but at least a bathroom stall shouldn’t be something you have to fight for.

 

[TalkToEthan]

But there is no explicit nor implied exclusivity.

I’m going to have to disagree with “implied”.

There is a social implication that large stalls are designated for those who have a physical disability, particularly wheeled chairs.

 

[Chef Mickey]

On average, kindness and cleanliness have both declined. The number of boys I see not flushing the toilets/urinals is insane. I've actually told kids to flush the toilet if I see them coming out or leaving bc it infuriates me. Not a single one has ignored me - they always go back and flush, likely out of embarrassment. The key is, people aren't taught basic manners from a young age.

Not taking care of your own bathroom business is disgusting and one of the things that should separate humans from animals.

Courtesy and cleanliness is learned behavior and look no further than their parents.

That said, there are too many ECVs and genuinely disabled people should revolt over these people. Disney, particularly MK was not built for literally 20 ECVs in a pathway, in front of an attraction, or watching fireworks with their 12 year old grandkid standing on the seat.

 

[mergatroid]

From what I have seen, and I use the restroom a LOT because I have bladder issues, is that some people with mobility devices feel like they don't have to wait in line. That they can bypass the whole line and go straight to the accessible stall. If anyone should be able to do that is those who have medical conditions that makes it so they have to urgently go. But we wait our turn, so should everyone.

To be honest I'd not really thought about that. I would say that if I ever developed bladder issues that I would find myself in a position where I had two choices. One would be that I'd politely explain to the person in the wheelchair that like themselves I have a medical condition that means I urgently need the toilet and hope that they'd understand. My other option would be to think "I'm not going to explain my condition to them because it's private and I'm just going to enter the stall when it's free without explaining why".

Both are valid options though personally I'd choose the first. The second one is down to the individual really, do you tell them or do you find it embarrassing telling them that. My position is probably made easier because suffering from Dystonia my condition can't be hidden. People tend to stare at me at times because similar to say Parkinson's disease, it's apparent to all there's something going on and some folk enjoy having a good old stare at me. This has perhaps toughened me up a bit and so I have no issue discussing it. Not everyone is like that though so you raise an interesting point.

On the whole I think the basic point is don't use the specially designed stalls unless you need to as it's really for those in wheelchairs if the normal ones are available for others. There's always going to be exceptions to it and I suppose how that's handled is up to the individual.

 

[Lilofan]

From what I have seen, and I use the restroom a LOT because I have bladder issues, is that some people with mobility devices feel like they don't have to wait in line. That they can bypass the whole line and go straight to the accessible stall. If anyone should be able to do that is those who have medical conditions that makes it so they have to urgently go. But we wait our turn, so should everyone.

Back in the day when Mr Potato Head was in operation in the interior queue line of Toy Story Mania at DHS, I've seen a fellow guest go behind the curtain of Potato Head with an empty water bottle. A few minutes later he came back without the bottle and went back on line. What you gotta go, you gotta go....

 

[lazyboy97o]

On the whole I think the basic point is don't use the specially designed stalls unless you need to as it's really for those in wheelchairs if the normal ones are available for others.

The problem though is that this is not really how restrooms are designed. With something like parking spaces which are for the exclusive use of those with mobility impairments, only about 2% of the spaces are set aside. The requirements for hotel rooms with mobility features is a little higher, up to about 3%, and in Florida there is there a flat requirement of 5% of rooms having the “Florida Special” mobility features.

In order to end the practice of creating isolated accessible restrooms only in specific places, the various accessible design standards require a wheelchair accessible stall at every restroom and also a wheelchair accessible urinal where more than one is provided. That means the ratio of toilets with accessible stalls is significantly higher than it is for other elements. Most public restrooms are not very big and it’s not uncommon for them to end up with a significant portion being accessible.

A place like a Disney theme park uses more large group restrooms, but even then the ratio remains high. How many toilets are provided is based on the expected number of occupants in a facility. In new construction, one amusement park toilet is there to serve about 60 women or 120 men. There is no specific set allocation for accessibility. The restrooms are disbursed around the park to ensure there is also ways a restroom within so many feet of guests and each one will have accessible features. Group restrooms with six or more toilets also must have the ambulatory stall. Even with Disney’s large group restrooms they’re not building ones with 50+ toilets in them meaning that most accessible stalls are intended to serve a good number of people who do not require the use of the accessible features.

 

[Lilofan]

The problem though is that this is not really how restrooms are designed. With something like parking spaces which are for the exclusive use of those with mobility impairments, only about 2% of the spaces are set aside. The requirements for hotel rooms with mobility features is a little higher, up to about 3%, and in Florida there is there a flat requirement of 5% of rooms having the “Florida Special” mobility features.

In order to end the practice of creating isolated accessible restrooms only in specific places, the various accessible design standards require a wheelchair accessible stall at every restroom and also a wheelchair accessible urinal where more than one is provided. That means the ratio of toilets with accessible stalls is significantly higher than it is for other elements. Most public restrooms are not very big and it’s not uncommon for them to end up with a significant portion being accessible.

A place like a Disney theme park uses more large group restrooms, but even then the ratio remains high. How many toilets are provided is based on the expected number of occupants in a facility. In new construction, one amusement park toilet is there to serve about 60 women or 120 men. There is no specific set allocation for accessibility. The restrooms are disbursed around the park to ensure there is also ways a restroom within so many feet of guests and each one will have accessible features. Group restrooms with six or more toilets also must have the ambulatory stall. Even with Disney’s large group restrooms they’re not building ones with 50+ toilets in them meaning that most accessible stalls are intended to serve a good number of people who do not require the use of the accessible features.

Even though the Fantasmic restrooms at HS is the largest I’ve seen it can’t keep up with 8K guests in attendance in the theatre.

 

[Ayla]

To be honest I'd not really thought about that. I would say that if I ever developed bladder issues that I would find myself in a position where I had two choices. One would be that I'd politely explain to the person in the wheelchair that like themselves I have a medical condition that means I urgently need the toilet and hope that they'd understand. My other option would be to think "I'm not going to explain my condition to them because it's private and I'm just going to enter the stall when it's free without explaining why".

Both are valid options though personally I'd choose the first. The second one is down to the individual really, do you tell them or do you find it embarrassing telling them that. My position is probably made easier because suffering from Dystonia my condition can't be hidden. People tend to stare at me at times because similar to say Parkinson's disease, it's apparent to all there's something going on and some folk enjoy having a good old stare at me. This has perhaps toughened me up a bit and so I have no issue discussing it. Not everyone is like that though so you raise an interesting point.

On the whole I think the basic point is don't use the specially designed stalls unless you need to as it's really for those in wheelchairs if the normal ones are available for others. There's always going to be exceptions to it and I suppose how that's handled is up to the individual.

Once again, they are not for the exclusive use of people in wheelchairs or EVC's. If it's open and the next available, I guarantee you every single woman is going to use it, do their business and get out. Unlike the men's restrooms, we don't have options on where to go.

 

[DisneyHead123]

On average, kindness and cleanliness have both declined. The number of boys I see not flushing the toilets/urinals is insane. I've actually told kids to flush the toilet if I see them coming out or leaving bc it infuriates me. Not a single one has ignored me - they always go back and flush, likely out of embarrassment. The key is, people aren't taught basic manners from a young age.

Not taking care of your own bathroom business is disgusting and one of the things that should separate humans from animals.

Courtesy and cleanliness is learned behavior and look no further than their parents.

Not flushing liquids can be a regional thing, I’ve found, where there’s drought or people skew highly eco-conscious. They should know better in public but that may be why it’s not habit from home. Also, this is not meant to be rude but I wouldn’t be telling other people’s kids what to do in a public bathroom. That could potentially get security called if a parent freaks.

 

[mergatroid]

Once again, they are not for the exclusive use of people in wheelchairs or EVC's. If it's open and the next available, I guarantee you every single woman is going to use it, do their business and get out. Unlike the men's restrooms, we don't have options on where to go.

I know they're not, I'm just being logical. If I walk into a toilet and there's 6 empty stalls and one is designed to be accessible to a wheelchair user, I wouldn't decide to use the one that a person in a wheelchair may need just because I can.

That's why in the very post you've quoted I say "On the whole I think the basic point is don't use the specially designed stalls unless you need to as it's really for those in wheelchairs if the normal ones are available for others." I'm not quite sure how you've translated that to me saying "they are for the exclusive use of people in wheelchairs or ECV's"?

I'm pointing out that as a society there are certain things people do or certain ways they behave. I've clearly said there are circumstances when people may use them and it's up to them to decide, I'm not sure why that has been ignored. I'll even go as far as saying that if people want to use the larger stalls designed to be accessible by people in wheelchairs just to spite people in wheelchairs, they can as there's no law stopping them. If people wish to use those toilets they can do. All the original poster on this subject was asking was that if there's alternative toilets to use then please use them. People can ignore that request if they wish, I just think in a civilised society where we care about others and their needs that it's something I have no issue trying to help and comply with. Because of this in my head the larger stalls are there for those who physically need them more than me. That's my choice and I prefer to live that way and leave those stalls for those that need them. But to clarify your point of view, others can choose to act differently.

 

[Lilofan]

Once again, they are not for the exclusive use of people in wheelchairs or EVC's. If it's open and the next available, I guarantee you every single woman is going to use it, do their business and get out. Unlike the men's restrooms, we don't have options on where to go.

Your assumption of every single women is misleading.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Fwiw - handicap bathroom stalls are not like handicap parking spots. They are not exclusive nor designated. They are compatible.

Obviously there is the point about someone being limited in their options and being courteous. But there is no explicit nor implied exclusivity.

Typically, the stalls are designated as handicapped, with a picture of a wheelchair.