People Mover

Sailor310

Well-Known Member
Doesn't OSHA also require hand rails on the track in case of evacuation? I thought that was the big deal on Alice in Wonderland.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
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Every indication is that due to OSHA/ADA requirement, it would be impossible to bring back. Once the ride changed, the could no longer be grandfathered into old requirements. As much as I'd love to see it...yeah, it's gone and at some point the tracks will be taken down.
The issue of grandfathering is not as direct as it is typically portrayed. An attraction is not really a type of use so changing the attraction typically is not a change in use that can automatically trigger a higher level of renovation. Exceptions can also be made for existing structures based on it being costly and complicated.

It's not just having evacuation points along the route. There is a minimum 36" of clearance required on both sides of a ride path now.
Egress is only required on one side of a vehicle since many vehicles only have one side open and crossing a track can be a tripping hazard. And again, there are means of being exempt.
 

LastoneOn

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Then you sshould know there IS A yetti at Disneyland
Never said there wasn't.

MH has yeti Expedition Everest has The Yeti
There is a tremendous difference. The Yeti even has its own thread. Nobody really talks much about the MH yeti because they're you know, just yeti. "Fixing the Yeti" most commonly refers to The Yeti at EE. And that's what I responded to. This is about the 3rd time I've explained this to you and a couple of others. What's next??

why your keyboard sticking?
 

LastoneOn

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The issue of the OSHA/ADA requirement keeps coming up which would cause them to need to have evacuation points along the length of the ride. What about this idea? Chop the track and connect where I have the red line. Then in outdoor track areas, they can have fewer evac points (maybe in areas where I indicate with green dots) where it's convenient to put them. Sure, we'd have a shorter ride, but at least we'd have a ride and then the Autopia sections can be torn down and if they ever decided to rip out Autopia for a new attraction, no harm no foul. There would also be less outdoor track to reinforce/replace if needed, and less track to convert from the Rocket rails to maybe a similar electric system that WDW uses.

View attachment 508510
Well, it wouldn't be the first time a roadway, more or less, was rerouted to facilitate construction along its existing route, and then put back. But I think the ADA thing is the killer: the ride's been shut down and not grandfathered in.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Well, it wouldn't be the first time a roadway, more or less, was rerouted to facilitate construction along its existing route, and then put back. But I think the ADA thing is the killer: the ride's been shut down and not grandfathered in.
There is no process by which things are grandfathered. It’s an in accurate term that does not properly describe various different regulatory requirements. Something new can still be less than minimally accessible due to existing conditions.
 

Nirya

Well-Known Member
Doesn't OSHA also require hand rails on the track in case of evacuation? I thought that was the big deal on Alice in Wonderland.

I believe that's more an issue for outdoor portions of the track, and that's an easy fix for this ride. The indoor sections have the space requirement issues instead, which is much harder as it would require a rebuild/renovation of the buildings.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
Never said there wasn't.

MH has yeti Expedition Everest has The Yeti
There is a tremendous difference. The Yeti even has its own thread. Nobody really talks much about the MH yeti because they're you know, just yeti. "Fixing the Yeti" most commonly refers to The Yeti at EE. And that's what I responded to. This is about the 3rd time I've explained this to you and a couple of others. What's next??

why your keyboard sticking?
Yes you did
There is no Yeti at Disneyland. Mischief managed!
 

LastoneOn

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It’ll happen when the Everest Yeti gets fixed..

“We caaaaaaan’t! It’s too haaaarrrrd!”

There is no Yeti at Disneyland. Mischief managed!

Let's look at the two posts back to back. Yeti. Everest. Yeti needs to be fixed, at Everest.
There is no Yeti at Disneyland to fix.
We were talking about THE YETI of EE of AK of WDW in FL.
We weren't referencing some little animontronics that look like little yeti prowling around the Matterhorn which isn't even in the Himalayans so who knows why Disney decided a Himalayan folklore critter belonged in the Alps.

Now quit trolling.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Doesn't OSHA also require hand rails on the track in case of evacuation? I thought that was the big deal on Alice in Wonderland.
I believe that's more an issue for outdoor portions of the track, and that's an easy fix for this ride. The indoor sections have the space requirement issues instead, which is much harder as it would require a rebuild/renovation of the buildings.
Look at something like a roller coaster and you do not see an egress platform along the entire track. There are ways around having to have an egress platform along the entire track, namely by developing a failsafe system that ensures vehicles stop in designated areas where egress is then provided.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Look at something like a roller coaster and you do not see an egress platform along the entire track. There are ways around having to have an egress platform along the entire track, namely by developing a failsafe system that ensures vehicles stop in designated areas where egress is then provided.

I thought the OSHA requirement being referenced in regard to Alice in Wonderland was that any drop of 30" or more had to have a handrail for employee safety. It wasn't necessarily related to the ride track/egress points but essentially anywhere an employee may be standing. They ended up doing a lot of work attaching handrails to roofs to prevent those accidental falls, and even changed the roof of Space Mountain.

Although again, a lot of this may just be moot because with something like the PeopleMover where the point is to have multiple vehicles and a short blocking distance between them, there isn't really a good way to engineer a system that will only stop the vehicles at a pre-determined point. If an E-Stop is pressed and power is cut to the system, the vehicles will stop where they stop. Maybe like Space Mountain they could have CMs come and push them to an unloading point, but not sure how that would jive with the more recent OSHA requirements.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I thought the OSHA requirement being referenced in regard to Alice in Wonderland was that any drop of 30" or more had to have a handrail for employee safety. It wasn't necessarily related to the ride track/egress points but essentially anywhere an employee may be standing. They ended up doing a lot of work attaching handrails to roofs to prevent those accidental falls, and even changed the roof of Space Mountain.

Although again, a lot of this may just be moot because with something like the PeopleMover where the point is to have multiple vehicles and a short blocking distance between them, there isn't really a good way to engineer a system that will only stop the vehicles at a pre-determined point. If an E-Stop is pressed and power is cut to the system, the vehicles will stop where they stop. Maybe like Space Mountain they could have CMs come and push them to an unloading point, but not sure how that would jive with the more recent OSHA requirements.
Fall protection has to be provided. Guards are easy and cheap to operate because they don't require training. Personal fall protection is also acceptable but has higher operating costs.

That's a design problem. It will be a decade or so before it would make its way to California, but there are also currently proposals to amend the Special Amusement section of NFPA 101 Life Safety Code to allow ride vehicles to continue operating even in an emergency such as a fire. This change is being proposed because evacuating a ride takes a long time (hours) whereas simply cycling can be often be done in minutes.
 
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Disney Irish

Well-Known Member
Let's look at the two posts back to back. Yeti. Everest. Yeti needs to be fixed, at Everest.
There is no Yeti at Disneyland to fix.
We were talking about THE YETI of EE of AK of WDW in FL.
We weren't referencing some little animontronics that look like little yeti prowling around the Matterhorn which isn't even in the Himalayans so who knows why Disney decided a Himalayan folklore critter belonged in the Alps.

Now quit trolling.
Well since "Yeti's" have been reported as far down as Spain its not a far stretch to think that the creature has migrated all over Europe.


Because really what is a Yeti but an Abominable Snowman, which are not isolated to the Himalayans.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
That's a design problem. It will be a decade or so before it would make its way to California, but there are also currently proposals to amend the Special Amusement section of NFPA 101 Life Safety Code to allow ride vehicles to continue operating even in an emergency such as a fire. This change is being proposed because evacuated a ride takes a long time (hours) whereas simply cycling can be often be done in minutes.

I seem to always remember hearing that this was SOP on the Submarine Voyage too... that if there was a fire in the caverns, it made more sense to alert the other subs, and floor it back to the station to unload.

It seems pretty apt to point out too that the PeopleMover was really done in by a fire. It seems like it should go without saying that, even if there was a way to "grandfather" the PeopleMover to allow it to reopen as-is, that maybe that wouldn't really be the safest thing to do. Even if you removed the idea that the buildings needed to be demolished and reconfigured to allow it to open, a simple replacement of the original system, updated with modern safety features and enhancements, wouldn't be worth the cost of the A/B Ticket experience it would offer.

I wonder if they faced the same exact dilemma back in 1995 when they decided to remove it.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
The issue of the OSHA/ADA requirement keeps coming up which would cause them to need to have evacuation points along the length of the ride. What about this idea? Chop the track and connect where I have the red line. Then in outdoor track areas, they can have fewer evac points (maybe in areas where I indicate with green dots) where it's convenient to put them. Sure, we'd have a shorter ride, but at least we'd have a ride and then the Autopia sections can be torn down and if they ever decided to rip out Autopia for a new attraction, no harm no foul. There would also be less outdoor track to reinforce/replace if needed, and less track to convert from the Rocket rails to maybe a similar electric system that WDW uses.

View attachment 508510
I would personally be sad if they shortened the track. Part of the allure of our PM was that whole section that went out over Autopia and the Subs.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
Let's look at the two posts back to back. Yeti. Everest. Yeti needs to be fixed, at Everest.
There is no Yeti at Disneyland to fix.
We were talking about THE YETI of EE of AK of WDW in FL.
We weren't referencing some little animontronics that look like little yeti prowling around the Matterhorn which isn't even in the Himalayans so who knows why Disney decided a Himalayan folklore critter belonged in the Alps.

Now quit trolling.
Not trolling. You said there is no Yeti at Disneyland and I am pointing out that is a false statement. Disneyland had the infamous Harold for decades before being replaced with an updated Harold that actually works unlike Animal Kingdom. So Disneyland has not only an modern AA of a Yeti but ours actually can function without destroying our snow mountain roller coaster ride.
 
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