Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
I'm offended
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Park Ticket price potentially increasing
- Thread starter guardian143
- Start date
Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
NormC
Well-Known Member
It's time for you to stop your nonsense.
NormC
Well-Known Member
There are no giveaways and the bottom tier have lots of block out dates so they are barely affecting your vacation. Get over it.
When you're done with your quest to eliminate bottom tier annual passes, can you focus the same zeal on to finding buried monorail footers?
VaderTron
Well-Known Member
I'll engage you with this one caveat: After I prove that you are wrong with facts will you recant and admit you were wrong?
Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Still waiting. Anytime you feel like providing actual proof of your accusation that it is Florida locals making the parks crowded.
Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
And at the same time UK visitors can pay the same park admission price as everyone else instead of getting discounted prices subsidised by others .
I actually would have found it more interesting if you were posing the question to yourself and expecting data and analysis from yourself.
VaderTron
Well-Known Member
You read that wrong. I am offering to engage with the fool who said it was locals crowding the park and not spending any money.
Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
I was asking Mr Andrew to provide proof. Apologies if you thought I was having a pop at you
Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
I am notoriously unreliable like that.
Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
As my teachers used to say.
Show your working out. Where are the facts and figures to prove it. Saying it is true doesn't make it so.
VaderTron
Well-Known Member
Since Andrew has no basis for his senseless drivel (thus no reply when called to the carpet for a debate) I will share actual experiences and numbers so the casual reader can come away from reading this thread with something of substance.
1. Actual number of local passholders of ALL TIERS (including the same tiers that are offered to everyone else) accounts for an average of 15% of attendance at the parks. The figure 10 years ago was 10%. This accounts for the 50% increase of passholders over that period of time. Since not all of those have the lower tier passes there are less than 15% of all guests that are local passholders on a given day.
2a. As a local I know many, many passholders. I don't know of any who bring their own food to the park. Actually, I know of two families that are NOT passholders that bring their own lunch when they go.
2b. I have only personally witnessed a handful of people eating food they brought to the park. Some of them were foreign visitors. It's just as possible for anyone who buys a day ticket or package to bring their food as it is a local. All it takes is a stop at one of the many stores surrounding WDW, or a stop at the grab-n-go coolers in the hotel the guest is staying at. (Technically that's still buying food from Disney.)
3. Andrew implied in replies to others that the parks are well managed and less crowded during blackout dates. I will go out on a fat and sturdy limb that Andrew has not been to the parks this summer. I have. I just was there several days during the passholder black-out dates in June. The crowds during the week were almost as bad as Saturday. At certain points it was like walking in a river of people. Lines for the rides were insanely long. One couple in our group waited 3 hours for Pandora: Flight of Passage even though it was listed as 120 minutes at the queue. Space Mountain was 80 minutes, Mine Train was 150 minutes, and LAUGH FLOOR (almost always a 10 min line) was 30 minutes. The line to get onto Magic Kingdom's monorail or boat took 35 minutes one morning. Earlier in the spring I went during open season for passholders. The lines were somewhat shorter. Not great, but then again it never is anymore. (But I digress.) I have ridden Slinky Dog 4 times by waiting in a 45 minute or less line this year. None of those times were during June. All of them were during Annual Pass open calendar dates.
4. Locals use the hotels. Do the people who live 10 minutes away? Not usually. But believe it or not, some of the fanatics do. However, the majority of "locals" live an hour or several hours away. When they go to WDW for a couple of days they don't drive back and forth. Do some of them? Possibly, but most do not.
5. Local passholders eat at the restaurants. This is one of the big areas Disney makes money. Food and beverage. Very local passholders are known to eat at the restaurants even days they don't go visit the parks or just to meet friends for dinner. Local passholders that come in from an hour or more away often eat at restaurants, both quick service and table service.
Finally, I would take any local passholder and measure them up to you, Andrew, and (unless you are an insane club level $10,000 for one trip person) say they will spend more than you at WDW this year. Am I wrong?
1. Actual number of local passholders of ALL TIERS (including the same tiers that are offered to everyone else) accounts for an average of 15% of attendance at the parks. The figure 10 years ago was 10%. This accounts for the 50% increase of passholders over that period of time. Since not all of those have the lower tier passes there are less than 15% of all guests that are local passholders on a given day.
2a. As a local I know many, many passholders. I don't know of any who bring their own food to the park. Actually, I know of two families that are NOT passholders that bring their own lunch when they go.
2b. I have only personally witnessed a handful of people eating food they brought to the park. Some of them were foreign visitors. It's just as possible for anyone who buys a day ticket or package to bring their food as it is a local. All it takes is a stop at one of the many stores surrounding WDW, or a stop at the grab-n-go coolers in the hotel the guest is staying at. (Technically that's still buying food from Disney.)
3. Andrew implied in replies to others that the parks are well managed and less crowded during blackout dates. I will go out on a fat and sturdy limb that Andrew has not been to the parks this summer. I have. I just was there several days during the passholder black-out dates in June. The crowds during the week were almost as bad as Saturday. At certain points it was like walking in a river of people. Lines for the rides were insanely long. One couple in our group waited 3 hours for Pandora: Flight of Passage even though it was listed as 120 minutes at the queue. Space Mountain was 80 minutes, Mine Train was 150 minutes, and LAUGH FLOOR (almost always a 10 min line) was 30 minutes. The line to get onto Magic Kingdom's monorail or boat took 35 minutes one morning. Earlier in the spring I went during open season for passholders. The lines were somewhat shorter. Not great, but then again it never is anymore. (But I digress.) I have ridden Slinky Dog 4 times by waiting in a 45 minute or less line this year. None of those times were during June. All of them were during Annual Pass open calendar dates.
4. Locals use the hotels. Do the people who live 10 minutes away? Not usually. But believe it or not, some of the fanatics do. However, the majority of "locals" live an hour or several hours away. When they go to WDW for a couple of days they don't drive back and forth. Do some of them? Possibly, but most do not.
5. Local passholders eat at the restaurants. This is one of the big areas Disney makes money. Food and beverage. Very local passholders are known to eat at the restaurants even days they don't go visit the parks or just to meet friends for dinner. Local passholders that come in from an hour or more away often eat at restaurants, both quick service and table service.
Finally, I would take any local passholder and measure them up to you, Andrew, and (unless you are an insane club level $10,000 for one trip person) say they will spend more than you at WDW this year. Am I wrong?
Santa Raccoon 77
Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
I don't know where you heard that but they are not cheap and not every Floridian has one or can afford one. Besides, there are many Floridians there as international tourists and Floridians keep injecting money into the economy and the pockets of the Disney corporation.
What would you suggest "guv"? 3 shilling?
cosmicgirl
Well-Known Member
Who else had to scroll up because they couldn't remember which thread they were in?
Not to get too involved in the discussion but could it be that there's a bit of jealousy at the root of this? I agree that it would be more fair to all if there was a level playing field and all APs were available to everyone. Imo that doesn't necessarily mean they should eliminate tiers, though. DLP used to have a low-tier AP exclusive to residents of Ćle-de-France but they stepped away from that model years ago and have not gone back. They still have that lowest tier AP with roughly the same limitations but it is now available to all.
Even living in Europe a Gold or even a Silver pass would suit me just fine. I've developed a habit where I'll just book short weekend trips across the pond on a whim if I can get a super cheap flight. I could see myself visiting WDW during those trips but the prohibitive cost of 1-day tickets stops me. A Silver or Gold pass would be ideal for this but they lock me out of those so I spend my money elsewhere.
As for the comments about UK/EU tickets and free dining: there are a couple of things I believe the Americans should take into account.
1. Currency exchange rates have had an enormous influence on the relative cost increase for Europeans over the past 10 years and expecially the past 5-6 years. To you a dollar is still a dollar, but to us that same dollar now costs 30% more and that is without Disney's price increases. I recently compared the cost of the same trip in 2009 to 2019: 8 nights in a standard room at CSR with 7-day hoppers and the DDP in the first week of July and this has roughly doubled in GBP/EUR, even with free dining in 2019 and no free dining in 2009. US inflation over that time was only ~19%. I can assure you that wages in Europe have not doubled over the past decade.
2. The average European has less disposable income than the American middle class. I understand that increasing the minimum wage for CMs to $15/hour is a big deal but for comparison's sake: I know plenty of people here with Master's degrees who barely make that much. And that is before the governments eat up 30-50+% on taxes and social security. That's middle class here.
Yet there are still middle class Europeans, myself included, who love to travel and will save up for a big trip to WDW. Without free dining as it is now we probably wouldn't/couldn't do it, at least not onsite. There are far cheaper ways to visit the area and I'm convinced that even with current UK/EU pricing the line between onsite and offsite is extremely thin. If they take away free dining or increase prices at the same rate of US prices then I believe many many Europeans, again myself included, will jump ship. They'd still visit FL but WDW would miss out on most of their spending. The vast majority of Europeans will not give up their 2- or 3-week vacations for 5 days in the bubble. So Disney can choose: give us an offer in line with what we can afford or lose our long-stay business.
Not to get too involved in the discussion but could it be that there's a bit of jealousy at the root of this? I agree that it would be more fair to all if there was a level playing field and all APs were available to everyone. Imo that doesn't necessarily mean they should eliminate tiers, though. DLP used to have a low-tier AP exclusive to residents of Ćle-de-France but they stepped away from that model years ago and have not gone back. They still have that lowest tier AP with roughly the same limitations but it is now available to all.
Even living in Europe a Gold or even a Silver pass would suit me just fine. I've developed a habit where I'll just book short weekend trips across the pond on a whim if I can get a super cheap flight. I could see myself visiting WDW during those trips but the prohibitive cost of 1-day tickets stops me. A Silver or Gold pass would be ideal for this but they lock me out of those so I spend my money elsewhere.
As for the comments about UK/EU tickets and free dining: there are a couple of things I believe the Americans should take into account.
1. Currency exchange rates have had an enormous influence on the relative cost increase for Europeans over the past 10 years and expecially the past 5-6 years. To you a dollar is still a dollar, but to us that same dollar now costs 30% more and that is without Disney's price increases. I recently compared the cost of the same trip in 2009 to 2019: 8 nights in a standard room at CSR with 7-day hoppers and the DDP in the first week of July and this has roughly doubled in GBP/EUR, even with free dining in 2019 and no free dining in 2009. US inflation over that time was only ~19%. I can assure you that wages in Europe have not doubled over the past decade.
2. The average European has less disposable income than the American middle class. I understand that increasing the minimum wage for CMs to $15/hour is a big deal but for comparison's sake: I know plenty of people here with Master's degrees who barely make that much. And that is before the governments eat up 30-50+% on taxes and social security. That's middle class here.
Yet there are still middle class Europeans, myself included, who love to travel and will save up for a big trip to WDW. Without free dining as it is now we probably wouldn't/couldn't do it, at least not onsite. There are far cheaper ways to visit the area and I'm convinced that even with current UK/EU pricing the line between onsite and offsite is extremely thin. If they take away free dining or increase prices at the same rate of US prices then I believe many many Europeans, again myself included, will jump ship. They'd still visit FL but WDW would miss out on most of their spending. The vast majority of Europeans will not give up their 2- or 3-week vacations for 5 days in the bubble. So Disney can choose: give us an offer in line with what we can afford or lose our long-stay business.