OS: Fire department serving Disney in talks to drop special operations

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Those fire work shows are handled by professionals and they have a plan if things get out of hand. The most dangerous thing in WDW is probably the propane they use in the Epcot show. One of those tanks blows up and it would go down in history. I'm sure a lot of thought was put in on safety systems and back ups for all that.

On one of the Discovery channel Disney shows they mentioned all the propane tanks for Illuminations are below the water line for safety purposes, I thought that was pretty clever. No heat and no air = no fire risk. They still have to fill the tanks but at least that can be done back stage where the risk to the public is minimized.

 

[PhotoDave219]

On one of the Discovery channel Disney shows they mentioned all the propane tanks for Illuminations are below the water line for safety purposes, I thought that was pretty clever. No heat and no air = no fire risk. They still have to fill the tanks but at least that can be done back stage where the risk to the public is minimized.

Except for when the inferno barge blew up backstage....

 

[DVCOwner]

I have run two fire departments in my life time and I can tell you that normal firefighters can and do handle 99.9% of the stuff Disney has on site. The special teams that I have work with are more for the Homeland Security type stuff. The problems was after 9-11 every fire department want to handle the 1% and spent a lot of money being ready for that. Now most governments have backed off this and are using regional teams to cover the really bad stuff. Also, just as in this case, labor is against reduction in these areas because in reduces what we called pro-pay, additional salary to cover special training required.

 

[rael ramone]

Do you have any idea how many nasty and hazardous fluids & chemicals are on property, let alone with just the laundry services? Plus all the oils and hydrolic fluids that go into all the attractions? Or the chlorine/bromide that goes into water purification? Plus not to mention everything with transportation.

All sorts of nasty And hazardous chemicals everywhere.

I'd rather have the experts in house to be able to handle the situation and have the training to assess the situation and handle it properly rather than having to call Orange County, have them blow it out of proportion and then send a bill for being called out.

Here's another way to look at it.

You've spent money to train people to do this ALREADY. If you stop the certifications, then they can't use the training that you already spent money on to handle problems that very well can happen.

Then you have to deal with the press when something bad happens and lives are lost due to having to wait for Orange County, not because you never had the specialized training on site, but you were too cheap to continue it and people on site who knew how to handle it weren't allowed to due to lapsed certifications...

Of course rightfully 'bad press' should be a distant second to the safety of the cast members & guests, but their priorities are clearly out of line...

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Here's another way to look at it.

You've spent money to train people to do this ALREADY. If you stop the certifications, then they can't use the training that you already spent money on to handle problems that very well can happen.

Then you have to deal with the press when something bad happens and lives are lost due to having to wait for Orange County, not because you never had the specialized training on site, but you were too cheap to continue it and people on site who knew how to handle it weren't allowed to due to lapsed certifications...

Of course rightfully 'bad press' should be a distant second to the safety of the cast members & guests, but their priorities are clearly out of line...

... but you could also save lives, because the money is going to be put into more training for the 99% things that they deal with all the time.

 

[rael ramone]

... but you could also save lives, because the money is going to be put into more training for the 99% things that they deal with all the time.

Plenty of municipalities have to make tough choices. Police protection, fire protection, ambulance, snow removal, schools, bond payments, and what the corporate world calls *legacy costs* (pensions, etc) - all with a limited amount of revenue.

This *municipality*, though, is the flagship resort of a 200 billion market cap DOW 30 company with 50 billion of annual revenue - that so happens to be named after an individual that valued safety, exceeding expectations & standards, and fixing what he thought was wrong with urban living.

I think we all should rightly expect, not an either/or, but BOTH (maintaining the necessary special units AND providing updated increased training for the rest of the department).

But the cynic in me says not even a 'microcent' of these 'savings' is going anywhere but to expand the profit margin (I wonder how many shares they can repurchase with allowing the certifications to lapse)...

 

[lazyboy97o]

This *municipality*, though, is the flagship resort of a 200 billion market cap DOW 30 company with 50 billion of annual revenue - that so happens to be named after an individual that valued safety, exceeding expectations & standards, and fixing what he thought was wrong with urban living.

I think we all should rightly expect, not an either/or, but BOTH (maintaining the necessary special units AND providing updated increased training for the rest of the department).

And what constitutes a necessary special unit? Why was there not such a team before the panic hat followed 9/11? Why isn't the team twice its size just to better ensure protection? Heck, why is the Reedy Creek Fire Department not twice its size? Why don't they have stations at every park and resort instead of at a few locations around property? These types of programs are also now being more and more looked at as having a larger negative impact on urban living than the preparation for a potential terrorist attack (although to be fair that focus is more on the police but it all came from the same mindset).

But the cynic in me says not even a 'microcent' of these 'savings' is going anywhere but to expand the profit margin (I wonder how many shares they can repurchase with allowing the certifications to lapse)...

This idea makes absolutely no sense. The Reedy Creek Improvement District is still a technically public, governing body. It is not a profit center for The Walt Disney Company. Excess revenues aren't going to just donated out to a private company.

 

[IMFearless]

Just a thought, but it would make more sense for RCFD to retain the specialist training and provide additional support to OCFD than the other way around.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Just a thought, but it would make more sense for RCFD to retain the specialist training and provide additional support to OCFD than the other way around.

I was thinking the same thing. They could be the area department with that level of expertise. Probably get Federal & State Grant money that way to offset some of the costs.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just a thought, but it would make more sense for RCFD to retain the specialist training and provide additional support to OCFD than the other way around.

I was thinking the same thing. They could be the area department with that level of expertise. Probably get Federal & State Grant money that way to offset some of the costs.

The Reedy Creek Improvement District receiving grants is more often not viewed favorably. The local counties contracting out to Reedy Creek would look like them paying Disney for a service they themselves could own and control. It'd be Disney profiting off of people's fear of terrorism.

 

[IMFearless]

I was thinking the same thing. They could be the area department with that level of expertise. Probably get Federal & State Grant money that way to offset some of the costs.

To me it would make more sense, as although the training appears to cover a range of specialist areas it seems terrorist threats are a key component which the training aims to cover.

Sad as it is to say it, WDW is certainly a potential target, more so than a neighbouring county you would assume.

I would feel the specialist training would be more beneficial to RCFD than an average department in a similar populated city area. I agree if the cost could be offset by neighbouring areas that is sensible, I guess it depends on the level of cover Orange County already has.

Without knowing more information it is hard to make any real judgements.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Without knowing more information it is hard to make any real judgements.

Around here, that's never stopped anybody before!

 

[IMFearless]

The Reedy Creek Improvement District receiving grants is more often not viewed favorably. The local counties contracting out to Reedy Creek would look like them paying Disney for a service they themselves could own and control. It'd be Disney profiting off of people's fear of terrorism.

Although I can see the difficulty, it's really no different to public bodies paying private firms to provide specialist services that would not be cost effective for them to provide themselves, or that can be provided better by a contractor. It would just be RCFD in this case.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Although I can see the difficulty, it's really no different to public bodies paying private firms to provide specialist services that would not be cost effective for them to provide themselves, or that can be provided better by a contractor. It would just be RCFD in this case.

The difference is that in this case the private entity is Disney, who has a long history of not playing nicely with its neighbors with the Improvement District being a key player in those actions. Such an arrangement can also not be forced by the District, the counties would have to ask for such an arrangement.

 

[IMFearless]

Perhaps though it would be an advantage to neighbouring areas if they were able to save money by not having to provide the services themselves, simply pay a retainer to the mouse and pass on the savings to their tax payers. Obviously it would require a good level of cooperation and fair play on all sides. It definitely makes sense to share these services if it is feasible and does not massively increase risk.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Perhaps though it would be an advantage to neighbouring areas if they were able to save money by not having to provide the services themselves, simply pay a retainer to the mouse and pass on the savings to their tax payers. Obviously it would require a good level of cooperation and fair play on all sides. It definitely makes sense to share these services if it is feasible and does not massively increase risk.

That is a big if that has to be initiated by the counties that will still have to deal with political fallout of selling off services to Disney's puppet government. And again, the counties have to ask first.

 

[IMFearless]

That is a big if that has to be initiated by the counties that will still have to deal with political fallout of selling off services to Disney's puppet government. And again, the counties have to ask first.

I think RCID is true genius on Walt Disney's part, and I think to be fair, it demonstrates that a private company can actually do a better job at running a city than many more traditional durisdictions.

I'm certain the challenges of running WDW are very different to another similar sized parcel of land with a similar number of people, but in terms of the overall layout, road standard, building standard and transportation systems, the place functions on a higher level than many government run cities.

I know it's apples to oranges, but if Disney ran the whole world it may not be worse.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think RCID is true genius on Walt Disney's part, and I think to be fair, it demonstrates that a private company can actually do a better job at running a city than many more traditional durisdictions.

I'm certain the challenges of running WDW are very different to another similar sized parcel of land with a similar number of people, but in terms of the overall layout, road standard, building standard and transportation systems, the place functions on a higher level than many government run cities.

I know it's apples to oranges, but if Disney ran the whole world it may not be worse.

How well the District and its Fire Department operate are not the issue with your idea.

 

[Mouse_Trap]

I think given the main risks in the area, better trained Firefighters would be better than a Special Operations team, especially as there is another team within close proximity.

Some of you make very strong arguments but costs should NEVER come before safety in any situation.

Cost always plays a part and really it has too. Safety is important but it's just not feasible to eliminate all risk and to get anywhere close is simply unaffordable.
There is always a trade off and balance between risk, both its impact and liklihood against the cost and effectiveness of mitigations.

For example,
Do you buy a million dollar vehicle that's the ultimate in safety? Even if your budget only stretches to $30k?
Is you house constructed to an unlimited safety budget, hardened to survive a direct nuclear attack?

Same with the vast amounts of money the NSA burns up to protect us. The average person would say great the NSA is after the terrorists. In real life 50-70 billion dollars a year is going to monitor your phones calls, your internet activity and most likely your movement.

Do you know that is how much they spend, or are you just making up numbers? Wikipedia says their total budget is classified but estimated at $10.8bn (2013). That's a lot of dollars, but an order of magnitude from your claim of $50-70bn a year.

Unless you happen to work there, or have a job at the very top of government how would you know how many lives have been saved as a result of their work?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Unless you happen to work there, or have a job at the very top of government how would you know how many lives have been saved as a result of their work?

We known none have been saved because the whole issue is over mass collections of anything and everything just to have it, not the investigation of probable threats.