Orlando Sentinel - Disney autism disability lawsuit moves to Orlando federal court

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Interesting. So if they're moving the case to Florida, can they still cite CA law? I would think not.

I think there's more to that than we may realize. The stronger civil rights laws on the books in California, in this case the Unruh Civil Rights Act, may make it harder for Disney to win in California than it could in Florida. And since there are a bunch of theme park managers in Florida (even though the actual decision making executives are in California), Disney successfully convinced the courts that's where the DAS paper trail leads to.

There's a reason Disney wanted this moved to Florida courts.
 
Last edited:

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I'm curious if someone can answer this question for me: if someone with a disability (autism in this case) shows up at a restaurant that has a long line, are the entitled to be seated ahead of other guests? If yes, then this case has merit. If not, how is this any different?

It's not different, far as I can tell. And the busy restaurant scenario is just one of many that undermine the "we can't wait" argument.

It's also no different from posing the question of how the autistic kids skipping the lines at Space Mountain waited in the 45 minute TSA line to board their plane to go to Disney World, or waited in the 12 hour family car trip from Cincinnati to Orlando.

It's a question that I've never seen answered satisfactorily by the folks who claim their child can't wait for a Fastpass return time at Space Mountain.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
It's not different, far as I can tell. It's also no different from posing the question of how the autistic kids skipping the lines at Space Mountain waited in the 45 minute TSA line to board their plane to go to Disney World, or waited in the 12 hour family car trip from Cincinnati to Orlando.

It's a question that I've never seen answered satisfactorily by the folks who claim their child can't wait for a Fastpass return time at Space Mountain.
The answer has been given, and it is that each case is different with different strategies being employed. The issue is not specifically waiting in lines, but whatever is at the end of said line.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto

I see your point, but I think you're just nitpicking it. Regardless of why they changed it, some guests feel like the new system hurts them and/or is unfair to their needs.
I agree that I am nitpicking. Absolutely. But sometimes a small bit of wording can change a lot in what a reader gets out of an article. Probably not a big deal, I agree. Just seemed like a misstatement in the article to me.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
It's not different, far as I can tell. And the busy restaurant scenario is just one of many that undermine the "we can't wait" argument.

It's also no different from posing the question of how the autistic kids skipping the lines at Space Mountain waited in the 45 minute TSA line to board their plane to go to Disney World, or waited in the 12 hour family car trip from Cincinnati to Orlando.

It's a question that I've never seen answered satisfactorily by the folks who claim their child can't wait for a Fastpass return time at Space Mountain.
They used to be given a Ferarri, and now they don't like that they're only being given a Ford Fusion. If this was the system from the start, I think most people would still be effusive with praise about how Disney is looking out for their special needs kids.
 

TheRabbit

Well-Known Member
They used to be given a Ferarri, and now they don't like that they're only being given a Ford Fusion. If this was the system from the start, I think most people would still be effusive with praise about how Disney is looking out for their special needs kids.
EXACTLY! Disney is in total compliance with ALL laws for disabilities now. What they offered with the GAC card was over and above what the law requires. But that got abused and those extra privilages are gone but the system now still is within law. I do agree that exceptions should be made for certain individuals, but that is still a slippery slope.
 

eeyoremum

Well-Known Member
I like the new system it worked really well for my family. In our case my husband is disabled he cannot stand long in lines. In the past we would get in line as my husband asked a CM if he could go ahead and sit down. Sometimes they could provide a chair sometimes he sat on the floor near the front of the line every time he sat alone while the rest of us stood in line, laughed and joked having fun. The new system provides a return time. We can stay in the area enjoy another ride or a snack and come back together. I would say much approved.

I think with both systems there needs to be checked and balances. I am sorry but I am sure we have all seen "autistic" children who really only need some better parenting and maybe a darn good unpolitically correct spanking.

Before you jump all over me I have a cousin with an autistic child and a friend with a raging brat who behaves for everyone but the parents (me included) and they (parents) insist he is autistic and everyone else is wrong. So I have seen both.
 

danv3

Well-Known Member
I actually see this as beneficial for the plaintiffs (really the plaintiffs' lawyers). They can now dismiss the state law claims that are pending in the newly relocated federal case and then re-file a state court action in California. I'm sure they never wanted to be in federal court in the first place.
 

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
As a side note, please stop and consider showing a little compassion before deciding whether or not people you don't even know need scooters. My aunt can manage to walk into a store, but her knees and hips can't handle a prolonged shopping expedition. My husband's cousin had a stroke in her early 30s. You'd never know to look at her that she has mobility issues, but they are severe and extremely limiting. You never know what burdens someone else may bear... Love to you all, and I'm sure I would be very bad at showing sympathy on this issue if not for close experience!
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Serious question - why have these people not sued Universal or any other theme parks that use the exact same system?

That's another great question that no one seems to be able to answer satisfactorily.

Companies like Cedar Fair and Six Flags have a lot more theme parks than Disney does. And they use a system that is even more restrictive than Disney's DAS currently is. Why not sue them instead, or at least in addition to Disney?
 

BrianV

Well-Known Member
As a side note, please stop and consider showing a little compassion before deciding whether or not people you don't even know need scooters. My aunt can manage to walk into a store, but her knees and hips can't handle a prolonged shopping expedition. My husband's cousin had a stroke in her early 30s. You'd never know to look at her that she has mobility issues, but they are severe and extremely limiting. You never know what burdens someone else may bear... Love to you all, and I'm sure I would be very bad at showing sympathy on this issue if not for close experience!

I hope people are showing compassion and I'm sorry if that is not what you are experiencing.

The question I always ponder is to what extent should a facility adapt to the customer's needs and to what extent should a customer concede that maybe full experience in a beyond their capability? There is no easy answer. Maybe a day long walking experience in Epcot is more than some people can do? I hope it is not lacking sympathy to observe that different people have different capabilities, even among the non handicapped.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Visiting Walt Disney World is a privilege, not a right. Riding rides is a privilege, not a right. Not everyone will be able to do everything. It's unfortunate, but not criminal.
I think I understand what you are trying to say but, respectfully, I suggest you read the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA):

The following private entities are considered public accommodations for purposes of this subchapter, if the operations of such entities affect commerce

(I) a park, zoo, amusement park, or other place of recreation​

Amusement parks are covered under ADA. Being able to do business with WDW is a right protected by ADA.

This does not mean Disney has to offer free admission to those with disabilities. Instead, this means that Disney cannot create barriers for those with disabilities who want to do business with Disney.

The obvious example of this is wheelchair access. Disney has spent many millions making its parks, busses, pools, hotels, etc. accessible to those with mobility issues.

Those in wheelchairs have ADA-protected rights to do business with WDW.

ADA protects both physical and mental disabilities. Those with mental disabilities have the same rights as those with physical disabilities.

By law, Disney must accommodate them if a reasonable modification can be made.

That's the crux of the matter. What is a reasonable modification?

Per ADA, discrimination occurs when there is a "failure to make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures, when such modifications are necessary to afford such goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to individuals with disabilities, unless the entity can demonstrate that making such modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of such goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations".

Per the Federal Government's ADA webpage:

“What is a fundamental alteration? A fundamental alteration is a modification that is so significant that it alters the essential nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations offered.”

What constitutes a “reasonable modification” or a “fundamental alteration” is what the lawsuit is about. Are the plaintiffs asking for a reasonable modification? Does what the plaintiffs seek alter the essential nature of what Disney offers?

Note that safety plays a vital role in determining what's reasonable. Effectively, safety takes precedence.

Surprisingly, there isn't much established case law on the subject that's applicable to the lawsuit.

One way or the other, the ruling is going to set a precedent that could have far-reaching consequences.
 
Last edited:

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Serious question - why have these people not sued Universal or any other theme parks that use the exact same system?

My personal opinion is that because Disney offered a system that was preferred and then backtracked to a less favorable system that is why the lawsuit was filed.

If they win this lawsuit there will most likely be additional suits against Universal, Six Flaggs and anyone else the lawyers can dig up. Remember if they win they get legal fees covered which means the lawyers get paid even if the actual people filing the lawsuit get no monetary compensation. It's real easy to pad hours and make a small fortune for these lawyers.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Serious question - why have these people not sued Universal or any other theme parks that use the exact same system?
As of last year, Universal offered a two-tiered system.

The first tier was similar to WDW's DAS, the difference being that Express Pass line access was granted if the wait time was 30 minutes or less. (Disney's is 10 minutes.) Most guests with disabilities got this.

The second tier was similar to Disney's old GAC system. Essentially, Universal handed out its Express Pass for free to those with qualifying disabilities, typically Autism.

If Disney wins the lawsuit, I suspect Universal will drop their second tier, if they haven't already.

Six Flags use to offer a system similar to GAC but switched this over to a system more like DAS last year due to widespread abuse.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
I actually see this as beneficial for the plaintiffs (really the plaintiffs' lawyers). They can now dismiss the state law claims that are pending in the newly relocated federal case and then re-file a state court action in California. I'm sure they never wanted to be in federal court in the first place.

The plaintiffs were the ones who filed in federal court. This has always been a federal case.
http://www.wdwforgrownups.com/artic...d-resorts-regarding-disability-access-service

Serious question - why have these people not sued Universal or any other theme parks that use the exact same system?

Because they don't have to.

Also, remember that the original suit concerned plaintiffs who had attended Disneyland in California.
Unless these people had also been to Universal they wouldn't have a claim against them.

Visiting Walt Disney World is a privilege, not a right. Riding rides is a privilege, not a right. Not everyone will be able to do everything. It's unfortunate, but not criminal.

There is no difference between a privilege and a right.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
I think this definitely will work to Disney's advantage, which is why they made the request in the first place, IMO. I don't know what will actually happen, but my gut tells me it will end in the favor of Disney.

With that said, I am hopeful Disney will improve the existing system. It would be nice for people to be able to verify their disability before their vacation and be able to reserve ride times via a mobile app, much like the current Fastpass +. It could also prevent mistakes by allowing people to electronically put themselves "in line" as some CM's tend to stamp the wrong time (it's rare but it's happened).

They could also place some limitations on it to prevent such abuse, but I think the biggest issue right now is the fact people actually have to go up to each attraction, get a wait time and leave. If they could do these things through their phone, it would be more seamless since there wouldn't be as much running around and these families could enjoy their day where they already are, but planning ahead some. If they could be flexible and keep the current paper system, that would be awesome too, for those who don't use phones.

I know Disney doesn't have to do this, but I bet it would make a big difference with the complaints. There will still be some complaints, it won't cure everything, but it would still be better than what's there now, IMO.

[EDIT] One more thing, this won't be over for a really long time. Regardless of what happens, there will be appeals, I'm sure.
 
Last edited:

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I think this definitely will work to Disney's advantage, which is why they made the request in the first place, IMO. I don't know what will actually happen, but my gut tells me it will end in the favor of Disney.

With that said, I am hopeful Disney will improve the existing system. It would be nice for people to be able to verify their disability before their vacation and be able to reserve ride times via a mobile app, much like the current Fastpass +. It could also prevent mistakes by allowing people to electronically put themselves "in line" as some CM's tend to stamp the wrong time (it's rare but it's happened).

They could also place some limitations on it to prevent such abuse, but I think the biggest issue right now is the fact people actually have to go up to each attraction, get a wait time and leave. If they could do these things through their phone, it would be more seamless since there wouldn't be as much running around and these families could enjoy their day where they already are, but planning ahead some. If they could be flexible and keep the current paper system, that would be awesome too, for those who don't use phones.

I know Disney doesn't have to do this, but I bet it would make a big difference with the complaints. There will still be some complaints, it won't cure everything, but it would still be better than what's there now, IMO.

[EDIT] One more thing, this won't be over for a really long time. Regardless of what happens, there will be appeals, I'm sure.
They could use the billion dollar plus new electronic system they installed at WDW;).

I do wonder if maybe they aren't allowing guests to book via phone since the functionality wouldn't exist at DLR. If they offered a service to guests at WDW and not DLR would that cause an even bigger uproar? Probably.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom