Original Scale of Pirates?

[Alektronic]

And eating there is awesome!

It made me wish we had something similar at WDW.

But from the attraction ride vehicle, it's just too open and lit-up and the only way you can avoid seeing tourists in T-shirts is to turn your head completely 90 degrees left and keep it there for the entire time you are in the Bayou.

It doesn't surprise me that they replicated that elsewhere - you can easily drop $100 on a relatively simple meal there for a couple, but you pay it because you get to sit in the ride. It's a cash cow, and I willingly paid it and would pay it again.

BUT...it does nothing for the attraction itself, it just takes away from it. It's not there in the other parks as an enhancement to the ride, it's there because it's a super-popular restaurant with probably the best theming in all of Disney-dom where they can charge super-premium prices for the experience of the location. It's a financial decision, not to enhance the ride itself.

It is also the best restaurant complex, the cast member cafeteria is below the Blue Bayou and Club 33 is above it.

 

[TP2000]

It's not a long way from the Louisiana coast to the Caribbean, so it makes perfect sense that you could start out from civilization, take a wrong turn on the water, and suddenly find yourself facing the bloodthirsty crew (whereas in AdvLand you're already past civilization, so you expect these kinds of adventures to pop up anyway).

Yeah, I always thought it made perfect sense to have pirates in New Orleans. Apparently so did a guy named Walt Disney and his best Imagineers working at the very top of their game in the 1960's.

Now if Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean was placed in Bear Country and you supposedly started out from frontier Seattle and then wound up in the Caribbean, I could see the complaint. But it just seems unnecesarily picky for people used to the WDW version to worry that New Orleans is too far from the Caribbean to support the boat rides vague plotline.

WDI apparently feels the same way, as they recreated Anaheim's New Orleans Square and Pirates buildings nearly exactly when they built Tokyo Disneyland in the 1980's.

 

[TP2000]

First, our ride is grander in scale. Like most Disneyland rides, their Pirates is much more "intimate" - everything is a bit smaller, closer together. You notice it a lot on rides like POTC and HM because you are much closer to the AA's and set pieces in many instances. Sometimes that's cool, but in the case of Pirates, it just feels kind of cramped to be honest; it's more like you are in a ride building than actually out on the open seas, as you can feel in the WDW ride, specifically at the ship/fort section after the drop.

You mentioned this concept once before, and to be honest it totally baffles me. I feel exactly the opposite, that whenver I ride the WDW version of Pirates the sets and scenery seems just a tad smaller and more closed in than the Disneyland version. I feel this sense of smaller sets most noticeably in WDW's Bombardment Scene and the Dunking The Mayor and Auction Scenes. But the Chase Scene and Burning City Scene seem identically scaled in both versions, and the Jail Scene and Arsenal Scene are different just enough to not be able to compare them as easily.

As proof, using the two YouTube complete ride through videos I linked to earlier, there is about 90 seconds of track length missing in the WDW version between the Bombarding The Fort Scene and the Arsenal Scene when your boat either hits the belts to go into Unload at WDW or hits the belts to begin the haul up the waterfall at Disneyland.

It takes the WDW boat 55 seconds to enter the Bombarding The Fort Scene, pass through it, and become parallel with the well in the Dunking The Mayor Scene.

That same trip in the Disneyland boat, from entrance to the Fort Scene to parallel to the well, takes 90 seconds. That's 35 seconds longer of boat travel at Disneyland, which now explains why those two scenes always seemed smooshed together and a tad scaled down to me in the WDW version.

There's a half dozen big animatronic scenes that form the big heart of the ride in both versions, and there's 90+ seconds missing at WDW in those half dozen scenes that are nearly identical in both rides.

Disneyland Ride Through - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mUQFnpQqs0&feature=related

WDW Ride Through - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzPus1Iuga0&feature=related

I suppose it's possible that there are set pieces set closer to the boats in Disneyland, which may account for the "intimate" feel you got. And yet I have always felt the exact opposite, that the sets and staging and pacing of the animatronic heart of the ride was a notch or two smaller and closer in at WDW.

90 seconds of missing ride track in just that central section alone has to have been made up somewhere, and a more compact track layout and subsequently smaller show building is the likely culprit there at WDW. How else could you explain the missing 90 seconds in those six major animatronic sets?

 

[AEfx]

I will stand up for the DL ride on this count. It's one of those things that I never noticed was "missing" until I experienced it (and honestly the ride works perfectly fine without it), but to me, there's something a little extra special about setting sail from New Orleans to find the Pirates than from the already "exoticized" Adventureland.

It's not a long way from the Louisiana coast to the Caribbean, so it makes perfect sense that you could start out from civilization, take a wrong turn on the water, and suddenly find yourself facing the bloodthirsty crew (whereas in AdvLand you're already past civilization, so you expect these kinds of adventures to pop up anyway).

I absolutely love the fact that PotC and HM are both located in NO Square at DL — and both of them are narratively justified!

And I can totally see that. It's just a matter of preference on that point.

Personally, I enjoy the "adventure" part. Though I am not someone that needs everything to be fast and furious (SSE and GMR are some of my favorite rides) in the case of Pirates the WDW version moves slowly enough I think, whereas at Disneyland it's almost like a crawl at points (especially the beginning).

It's like that blog post linked above. The person is not a bad writer, but started out with a premise, ended with the same premise (Disneyland's version is unquestionably superior) and didn't support that argument at all. In fact, quite a few times it mentions how the MK version made better decisions. The biggest gripe they have is the placement of the audio at the beginning of the waterfall decent.

When people reference the Disneyland version as superior, it's all hyperbole. "It's longer!" (But what is it that makes it longer - mostly the long stretch at the beginning where nothing happens.) "It's vastly superior!" (How??? Besides that it's simply longer.) That's really all you ever hear.

I do get that some people enjoy the slower-pace of the start and end. In that blog post again, they refer to the "dreamlike" quality. Eh...I want to jump into a grand Pirate adventure - and that's what MK's version does. Entering a pristine southern mansion, then walking through a few doors into the LA Bayou, then suddenly in caves, etc. doesn't seem to flow as well as "we are in Adventureland, hey let's check out that Pirate bunker, descending into the cave below, and starting the journey to Pirate debauchery".

In that respect, it's a matter of preference. But my whole life I've been sold the story of it being vastly superior in every way, and I just didn't see it. All things considered, I think they are both equally great rides. I've just never seen a reasoned, blow-by-blow argument about why it's "vastly superior" besides people saying, "It's vastly superior" LOL. I was expecting vastly more show scenes, not just longer caverns and a slower overall pace (the boat speed at Disneyland seems much slower as well, adding to the overall "it's longer").

 

[AEfx]

You mentioned this concept once before, and to be honest it totally baffles me. I feel exactly the opposite, that whenver I ride the WDW version of Pirates the sets and scenery seems just a tad smaller and more closed in than the Disneyland version. I feel this sense of smaller sets most noticeably in WDW's Bombardment Scene and the Dunking The Mayor and Auction Scenes. But the Chase Scene and Burning City Scene seem identically scaled in both versions, and the Jail Scene and Arsenal Scene are different just enough to not be able to compare them as easily.

When I feel it most is in the beginning at the initial splashdown from the waterfall. You are definitely closer to the ship and the surrounding bunkers. When you enter the scene in WDW it's simply grander and more convincing to me - it's almost like you can see off into the distance, where I did not get that feeling at Disneyland.

I found the effect even more so in Haunted Mansion, but there definitely were several times where I felt that at POTC later in the ride as well. For instance, going through the scene with the drunk and the pig, going under the bridge, etc. - it feels a lot more "intimate". Not necessarily a bad thing, but I definitely felt on the DL version of the ride in certain areas (including the one scene not in ours, the treasure room) that I was in a very small space, as opposed to everyting feeling "big" around you in the MK version (they talk about that a bit in the blog post posted above - we have more space between our show scenes in certain areas).

As proof, using the two YouTube complete ride through videos I linked to earlier, there is about 90 seconds of track length missing in the WDW version between the Bombarding The Fort Scene and the Arsenal Scene when your boat either hits the belts to go into Unload at WDW or hits the belts to begin the haul up the waterfall at Disneyland.

It takes the WDW boat 55 seconds to enter the Bombarding The Fort Scene, pass through it, and become parallel with the well in the Dunking The Mayor Scene.

That same trip in the Disneyland boat, from entrance to the Fort Scene to parallel to the well, takes 90 seconds. That's 35 seconds longer of boat travel at Disneyland, which now explains why those two scenes always seemed smooshed together and a tad scaled down to me in the WDW version.

See, I think a lot of that has to do with the speed. The boats seem to move much slower in Disneyland. It's more of a meander through than the show where ours is a bit more swashbuckling (though obviously both are rather slow rides).

90 seconds of missing ride track in just that central section alone has to have been made up somewhere, and a more compact track layout and subsequently smaller show building is the likely culprit there at WDW. How else could you explain the missing 90 seconds in those six major animatronic sets?

Well, like I said, part of it I attribute to the speed of the boats (which apparently were made slower at DL for some reason at a certain point in the ride's history), not the actual track measurements (which, again, according to that blog post referenced above insists in some scenes there is more space between some scenes, not less). It may very well be slightly shorter physically in those scenes, but the length of time isn't really a good measurement.

Regardless, though, extra seconds in certain scenes is a preference thing, I guess. I just can't figure out where this "OMG IT'S VASTLY SUPERIOR WE HAVE THE READERS DIGEST VERSION!" mantra that seems to permeate Disney fandom comes from. Cutting out empty parts is simply good editing and tightening up your experience. Based on what I have been told all my life, I was expecting grand show scenes that we didn't have, or some amazing...SOMETHING. It's hard to say what I was expecting, because, again, when people reference it's superiority it's all in hyperbole most of the time. It usually (just like here) comes down to the "It's longer!" reasoning, but I don't see that as making it automatically superior.

 

[marni1971]

Orlandos was built as big as it was designed. It was rushed from concept to design to opening in less than 24 months. Partly to increase park capacity and partly to appease complaining guests that there was no PotC like in DL.

Though never designed to be bigger than it was, there was a proposal in 2004-5 to extend the attraction, and another to make use of the upramp. Both were vetoed due to cost.

Having ridden the DL version a few month ago for my first time (and re-rode and re-rode) it really is amazing how ripped off Orlando is compared to the original. And that`s coming from someone who has done the Paris version, the biggest of them all!

 

[aladdin2007]

Ours was once pretty good, before the rehab anyway. I dont know whos bright ideas they were, but they ruined the audio, its deplorable! The ride is way too quiet now and what sound there is is very poor. You can barely make out the music.
Effects are broken and dont work...they took away things like the rolling clouds on the ceiling in the big ship battle scene, that whole side is just pure darkness now no more sky effect. And the last scene with Sparrow, is good but was way better before they closed it off and you can only see it from one side. Funny how the Haunted Mansion gets such wonderful attention yet this one they let go/make worse.

 

[Imagineer6]

There is definitely some room behind it to expand, but I'm pretty sure that's not happening. As others said, it was meant to boost attendance. When the attendance went down, they brought the movie to the ride.

 

[the-reason14]

I never thought about DL's Pirates vs WDW's Pirates in that way. AEfx, you offered a new insight in this whole thing. I can see from what your saying why you think WDW's is superior. And I also grew up going to WDW and hearing about how much better Pirates was in DL. As far as a 'key scene' point of view, I think you're right. But I think the reason why I enjoyed Pirates more and think it's better at DL is because it's simply longer. Longer doesn't always mean better, but in this case I think it does. Getting on and off at the same place was 'different,' but I never had a problem with it. But now that I think about it, the part where you go up and circle around and see the people waiting, thats more of a 'filler' thing than anything else. Wdw's Pirates get straight to the point and the whole "Director's cut" analogy is a good one, and one I've never thought about. Your insight has open the door to the debate, and it's change my perspective slightly so thanks. But I still like DL's is better simply because it's longer and has a few extra 'meaningful' scenes. And I can't help but feel WDW got the short end of the stick with theirs.

 

[AEfx]

I never thought about DL's Pirates vs WDW's Pirates in that way. AEfx, you offered a new insight in this whole thing. I can see from what your saying why you think WDW's is superior.

Hehe, thanks.

That said, I don't think WDW's is *superior*, it's just that I don't think Disneyland's is ten levels of heaven above it as we've been told all our lives.

Accounting for everything, I think they are pretty equal.

Disneyland's moves slower and has additional time at the beginning and end (with little actual "show" added) so it's a longer, more relaxing attraction. WDW's (in my opinion, some have shown differing ones here, which is totally preference) has a more appropriate queue and fits the "adventure" theme better than I feel Pirates says "fancy New Orleans mansion".

I did greatly enjoy Disneyland's version. I just think it's a myth given to us by Unoffical Guide, Al Lutz, and other sources over the last few decades that somehow it's some massively different attraction. The actual show scenes are virtually identical, and if I had both rides in front of me right now and you said I could only ride one, I'd honestly have to flip a coin to pick one I wanted to ride.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

My family was disappointed when we last rode pirates. We remembered it being longer, even though it probably wasn't.

Did help that we just rode the DLP version just the year before (which we didn't find to be longer, it was more "how we remembered it").

All for of us said "that was short" after the ride.

A cast member told us it was made shorter when the movie elements were added. I don't really believe that. I just blame my inflated memories. lol

 

[imagineer boy]

A cast member told us it was made shorter when the movie elements were added. I don't really believe that. I just blame my inflated memories. lol

Wow, that CM needs to check their facts because that's not true in the slightest. :lol: The ride is exactly the same length it was before the movie elements were added.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Pirates of the Caribbean is a better attraction at Disneyland, but the biggest thing is the Blue Bayou restaurant.

Having said that, I'd rather have WDW's combination of Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean than Disneyland's combination of the two.

 

[unkadug]

Wow, that CM needs to check their facts because that's not true in the slightest. :lol: The ride is exactly the same length it was before the movie elements were added.

They possibly could have sped the ride up a little, resulting in a shorter time spent on the attraction.

 

[MotherOfBirds]

DLP's Pirates is much longer and has more than one drop along with some really cool effects. WDW's felt rather lame after DLP

 

[TP2000]

DLP's Pirates is much longer and has more than one drop along with some really cool effects. WDW's felt rather lame after DLP

Disneyland's Pirates has two drops. And they are really drops. The "drop" at WDW's Pirates had always felt more like a short slide rather than a true drop. Then I discovered the ride stats on the Internet, and it proved why you don't get that true Disneyland-style dropping feeling in the pit of your stomach and the noticeable G forces while sliding down that short hill at WDW's Pirates.

Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean
Drop 1 - 52 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle
Drop 2 - 37 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle

WDW Pirates of the Caribbean
Drop 1 - 14 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle

 

[the-reason14]

Disneyland's Pirates has two drops. And they are really drops. The "drop" at WDW's Pirates had always felt more like a short slide rather than a true drop. Then I discovered the ride stats on the Internet, and it proved why you don't get that true Disneyland-style dropping feeling in the pit of your stomach and the noticeable G forces while sliding down that short hill at WDW's Pirates.

Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean
Drop 1 - 52 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle
Drop 2 - 37 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle

WDW Pirates of the Caribbean
Drop 1 - 14 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle

Disneyland drops weren't real drops. I seem to remember them being just a little bit longer than the one at WDW, but the way you make it sound like it's equal to splash mountain, which it's not.

 

[TP2000]

Disneyland drops weren't real drops. I seem to remember them being just a little bit longer than the one at WDW, but the way you make it sound like it's equal to splash mountain, which it's not.

No, of course it's not like Splash Mountain. Splash Mountain has a 45 degree angle. The Pirates drops are less than half that steep at a relatively tame 21 degrees.

But the two drops at Disneyland head down into the Anaheim bedrock, while the one drop at Magic Kingdom heads from an elevated first level to a slightly lower second level. They can't dig down more than a couple feet in Orlando due to the swampy water table, so you load on an upper level at Magic Kingdom and then your boat slides down to ground level for most of the show.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

WDW Pirates of the Caribbean
Drop 1 - 14 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle

Are you sure it's not 14 high? I thought that was the difference in height between true ground level and the park's walkways and 14 long sounds too short.

 

[imagineer boy]

Disneyland's Pirates has two drops. And they are really drops. The "drop" at WDW's Pirates had always felt more like a short slide rather than a true drop. Then I discovered the ride stats on the Internet, and it proved why you don't get that true Disneyland-style dropping feeling in the pit of your stomach and the noticeable G forces while sliding down that short hill at WDW's Pirates.

Disneyland Pirates of the Caribbean
Drop 1 - 52 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle
Drop 2 - 37 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle

WDW Pirates of the Caribbean
Drop 1 - 14 Feet Long, 21 Degree Angle

I don't know, DL's first drop and WDW's drop always felt the same to me. :shrug: