Okee68
Well-Known Member
I bet that's almost exactly how it looked, my guy. You even got the position of the doors correct.
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Original Alice in Wonderland Ride
- Thread starter AllyInWonderland
- Start date
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Well, these seems like it may be the thread to ask this question . . .
Does anyone know when the Cheshire Cat first appeared outside the ride between the Rabbit Hole and the nearby Bathrooms? I've always assumed he showed up with New Fantasyland in the 80's, but I'd be curious to know if he was there sooner.
Does anyone know when the Cheshire Cat first appeared outside the ride between the Rabbit Hole and the nearby Bathrooms? I've always assumed he showed up with New Fantasyland in the 80's, but I'd be curious to know if he was there sooner.
Okee68
Well-Known Member
Your question prompted me to look up "disneyland alice in wonderland 1982" due to a vague recollection of seeing a photo from the early eighties showing the side of the rabbit hole, but I came across this instead:
What's interesting about this publication is that the illustration of the Cheshire Cat seems to be based on the plywood flat in the old ride rather than anything in the 1984 version, so I created this really awful edit to make the drawing look slightly more like the flat:
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
Interesting, looks like whoever wrote the article made a mistake when describing the placement of the Alice miniland. And it's definitely a mistake looking at the concept art that shows both Dumbo and Alice in it's final location (also it'd be impossible to fit Alice on such a small spot).
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Related - does anyone here have a copy of the Alice Facade Concept Art that's halfway featured in this article? I saw a thumbnail of it somewhere recently and seeing this bit reminds me of how I would love to see it full size. All the other Fantasyland Facade concepts like the Toad Hall painting in this article were widely published but I can't get my hands on Alice. I'd love a better look at what they had in mind!
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Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
The red rose topiaries make me think that the Red Queen's grounds and Mad Tea Party were swapped in development (with Mad Tea Party being in it's original location and Red Queen serving as the finale).
I assume the leaf ramp would serve as the "Painting the Roses Red" scene, beginning of the indoor scene would be the croquet scene, Off with your heads and the escape afterwards.
I'm assuming they realized that the Red Queen scene should be larger than the Mad Tea Party, so they swapped the placement. Or maybe they realized that outdoors figures would require more maintenance work to keep them looking nice.
VicariousCorpse
Well-Known Member
Here's best I could find. The Cheshire Cat is sitting on a mushroom on the right side. If anyone else is interested the scan of the magazine from a few posts ago came from Disney News Magazine Fall 1982.
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yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
This is fantastic! For sure the best look at this piece of art I've seen. Thank you!
Clover Bailey
Well-Known Member
Okee68
Well-Known Member
Adding to the earlier discussions of other pre-1983 Fantasyland dark rides, here are several additional views of Toad that were posted to the Walt Disney Archives Twitter account in October:
Apparently the Jaws of Hell originally had several bottom teeth which presumably didn't make it into the finalized ride.
Apparently the Jaws of Hell originally had several bottom teeth which presumably didn't make it into the finalized ride.
Clover Bailey
Well-Known Member
I have a feeling that the photo of those two riders entering the train tunnel is probably the most accurate idea of how the black light looked on the actual rides, especially seeing how little Toad has changed compared to the other dark rides.
Okee68
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the alternate version of the photo I just posted (the one that shows off the brilliant ultraviolet glow of the scenery) is definitely one of the absolute best shots of an original Fantasyland dark ride there is. Not only does it capture an accurate vision of what the old rides actually looked like, but it's also a view of one of the only scenes that wasn't left intact for the current 1983 ride.
Clover Bailey
Well-Known Member
Were most of the scenes left intact? From what I've seen the 1955 and 1983 Mr Toad are similar, but still have very different show scenes. Was there more reused assets from the 1955 version than I realise?
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
That big devil head is amazing
Okee68
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the general locations in the ride rather than exact setpieces. Toad Hall, the countryside, and Hell still occupy the same spots they did 65 years ago, even if their 1983 incarnations are considerably different from the way they were originally. Ratty's house, the harbor, and the warehouse are not only situated exactly where they were in 1955, but are borderline identical to their pre-1983 iterations. The rural hamlet before the harbor, however, as well as the stretch of woods and the railroad crossing following the warehouse, didn't make it past 1982.
Clover Bailey
Well-Known Member
If I'm correct this is where the outdoor "suit of armor" scene is now, right after guests crash out the fireplace?
Okee68
Well-Known Member
Yes, although the corner occupied by the suit of armor isn't visible from that particular angle. Using this photo as a reference, it's located at the corner to the left and directly right of the fireplace, exactly where one of the original miniature suits of armor stood.
In that screenshot of Claude Coats working on the set, you can actually see a diagonal support rod to the far right directly behind the crash doors that led into the main Toad Hall area; these were the first set of doors in the ride after the initial ones painted onto the queue mural. There was a short entrance room between the queue and the majority of Toad Hall so that guests waiting in line couldn't get any premature glimpses into the first real scene.
Thanks for that picture. Things go by so quickly that one tends to look at the moving plywood cut outs. Looking at the scenery off to the right is incredible.