Original Alice in Wonderland Ride

[Clover Bailey]

I also think it's pretty sad how there's no good photos of the Witch in the cottage or the final Witch with the boulder in the 1955 version. I'm sure photos exist out there, were just still searching. There's honestly probably tons of sources of the original dark rides floating around online.

 

[Miru]

Another thing is now that I think about it, what would have the three planned WDW dark rides (Sleeping Beauty, Sleepy Hollow, and Mary Poppins) have looked like, given what we know of this era of dark ride design?
I also think the Snow White overhaul got so much backlash because it was done behind our backs under the guise of a “refurbishment”.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I still have no clue on how those Witch figures went under the radar. They didn't even attempt to make her look like the character from the film. Here's one that has a watermark, but gives a good idea of how uncanny these figures were:

She does kind of look like Tenngren's depiction of the witch:

Interestingly enough one of his pieces of concept art for Stromboli's theater (before it was decided to make him a traveling Gypsy) inspired the exterior to Pinocchio's Daring Journey:

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I still have no clue on how those Witch figures went under the radar. They didn't even attempt to make her look like the character from the film. Here's one that has a watermark, but gives a good idea of how uncanny these figures were:

Well THAT'S haunting.

Here's a quick pass at it:

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Another thing is now that I think about it, what would have the three planned WDW dark rides (Sleeping Beauty, Sleepy Hollow, and Mary Poppins) have looked like, given what we know of this era of dark ride design?
I also think the Snow White overhaul got so much backlash because it was done behind our backs under the guise of a “refurbishment”.

I'm always skeptical of those three ever being planned for MK considering the only proof I've ever seen/heard of those attractions ever being considered are old Jim Hill articles, very much a second hand at best source. Maybe someone a bit more familiar with the development stages of MK than I can shine a light on this?

 

[Clover Bailey]

I'm always skeptical of those three ever being planned for MK considering the only proof I've ever seen/heard of those attractions ever being considered are old Jim Hill articles, very much a second hand at best source. Maybe someone a bit more familiar with the development stages of MK than I can shine a light on this?

I read somewhere that they would use the same layouts of the DLR dark rides but with different themes:

- Peter Pan would instead be a flight over London with Mary Poppins
- Snow White would instead be a Sleeping Beauty dark ride
- I'm pretty sure the story I read said that Mr. Toad would instead be themed to Merlin and his magic from Sword In The Stone, but was it going to be Sleepy Hollow?

If it was Sleepy Hollow, then that would mean there would be two "scary" dark rides in Fantasyland, with Mary Poppins being the exception.

Also, hypothetically, if the Magic Kingdom got a 4th dark ride along the lines of Alice, what would be a good alternative film?

 

[Miru]

I read somewhere that they would use the same layouts of the DLR dark rides but with different themes:

- Peter Pan would instead be a flight over London with Mary Poppins
- Snow White would instead be a Sleeping Beauty dark ride
- I'm pretty sure the story I read said that Mr. Toad would instead be themed to Merlin and his magic from Sword In The Stone, but was it going to be Sleepy Hollow?

If it was Sleepy Hollow, then that would mean there would be two "scary" dark rides in Fantasyland, with Mary Poppins being the exception.

Also, hypothetically, if the Magic Kingdom got a 4th dark ride along the lines of Alice, what would be a good alternative film?

Willie the Operatic Whale? The Jungle Book? Bongo?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I read somewhere that they would use the same layouts of the DLR dark rides but with different themes:

- Peter Pan would instead be a flight over London with Mary Poppins
- Snow White would instead be a Sleeping Beauty dark ride
- I'm pretty sure the story I read said that Mr. Toad would instead be themed to Merlin and his magic from Sword In The Stone, but was it going to be Sleepy Hollow?

If it was Sleepy Hollow, then that would mean there would be two "scary" dark rides in Fantasyland, with Mary Poppins being the exception.

Also, hypothetically, if the Magic Kingdom got a 4th dark ride along the lines of Alice, what would be a good alternative film?

I've always heard Sleepy Hollow - and if you think about it, Toad is pretty scary as it is, with all the near-misses and ending in Hell. I can see the Headless Horseman's Pumpkin standing in for the light of the Train and everything.

That said, a dark ride themed to Merlin and his Magic sounds like tons of fun, especially in the style of WDW's Toad. Maybe make it 2 tracks, with one on "Merlin's side" and the other on Mad Madame Mim's, with both characters butting heads where the tracks run parallel right before the finale?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

By the way, in an effort to at least pretend to be on topic, I tried cleaning up some old Alice pictures:

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Also, hypothetically, if the Magic Kingdom got a 4th dark ride along the lines of Alice, what would be a good alternative film?

Mickey and the Beanstalk seems like a natural choice (though you'd probably go up the beanstalk at the beginning instead of going down the vine at the end in Alice)

 

[Clover Bailey]

I've always heard Sleepy Hollow - and if you think about it, Toad is pretty scary as it is, with all the near-misses and ending in Hell. I can see the Headless Horseman's Pumpkin standing in for the light of the Train and everything.

That said, a dark ride themed to Merlin and his Magic sounds like tons of fun, especially in the style of WDW's Toad. Maybe make it 2 tracks, with one on "Merlin's side" and the other on Mad Madame Mim's, with both characters butting heads where the tracks run parallel right before the finale?

Toad is more scary in a fun, cartoonish way, almost like a thrill ride. Sleepy Hollow would be similar to Snow White in how the entire ride would be getting chased through a dark forest by a crazy monster. Which makes me even more curious to how a Sleeping Beauty dark ride would've played out... perhaps similar to the 1957 Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Toad is more scary in a fun, cartoonish way, almost like a thrill ride. Sleepy Hollow would be similar to Snow White in how the entire ride would be getting chased through a dark forest by a crazy monster. Which makes me even more curious to how a Sleeping Beauty dark ride would've played out... perhaps similar to the 1957 Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough?

I guess it depends on how they were looking to do it.

I too am deeply curious about what these alternative Dark Rides would have been like. It seems logical that the Sleeping Beauty one might have pulled a little influence from the Disneyland Castle Walkthrough, but given how much managed to change in Pan, Snow, and Toad between DL and WDW it's possible they may not have been married to it.

I sort of imagine it's possible that Sleeping Beauty would have been a lot like WDW's original Snow, where the story of the movie was followed only very loosely. A scary ride with the emphasis on Maleficent being after you - maybe a quick whirl through the Three Fairie's cottage, with them being spooked by something the way the Dwarves were, and the Dragon bearing down on you from above a room full of thorns instead of the Witch with the giant gem at the end of the ride.

It is surprising that no art has ever emerged giving any sense of what these rides might have been like. You'd think after all this time something would have snuck out that could be traced back to one of these three. I feel like I remember seeing a blueprint with the respective show buildings labeled with these properties, which suggests they were seriously considered at some point, but no concept art for any of the scenes to suggest that they were actively being developed. Makes you wonder how early it was that the decision was made to nix them in favor of new versions of the DL rides.

 

[Clover Bailey]

I guess it depends on how they were looking to do it.

I too am deeply curious about what these alternative Dark Rides would have been like. It seems logical that the Sleeping Beauty one might have pulled a little influence from the Disneyland Castle Walkthrough, but given how much managed to change in Pan, Snow, and Toad between DL and WDW it's possible they may not have been married to it.

I sort of imagine it's possible that Sleeping Beauty would have been a lot like WDW's original Snow, where the story of the movie was followed only very loosely. A scary ride with the emphasis on Maleficent being after you - maybe a quick whirl through the Three Fairie's cottage, with them being spooked by something the way the Dwarves were, and the Dragon bearing down on you from above a room full of thorns instead of the Witch with the giant gem at the end of the ride.

It is surprising that no art has ever emerged giving any sense of what these rides might have been like. You'd think after all this time something would have snuck out that could be traced back to one of these three. I feel like I remember seeing a blueprint with the respective show buildings labeled with these properties, which suggests they were seriously considered at some point, but no concept art for any of the scenes to suggest that they were actively being developed. Makes you wonder how early it was that the decision was made to nix them in favor of new versions of the DL rides.

Also, I think it's pretty clear that by this point the 1955 dark rides were already very outdated, as Disney's level of quality in their attractions skyrocketed during the 60s. Perhaps they decided to recreate the Disneyland dark rides with the intent of eventually copying them back to Anaheim if the Florida counterparts were a hit?

 

[Miru]

Now I want to know what became of the original cutouts from the attraction.

 

[Clover Bailey]

Now I want to know what became of the original cutouts from the attraction.

Unfortunately, I'm sure they were just all tossed out with the trash. Part of me hopes that they're out there, somewhere, collecting dust in an archive. but the truth is they looked nothing like the characters from the film, and by the 80s Disney had gotten the hang of perfectly recreating their animated characters, so keeping them had no use.

I am thinking of making miniature recreations of some of the cutouts though, and I'll definitely post them here if I do.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Found this really odd piece of concept art for Peter Pan's Flight while searching for old Fantasyland footage:

 

[Miru]

Unfortunately, I'm sure they were just all tossed out with the trash. Part of me hopes that they're out there, somewhere, collecting dust in an archive. but the truth is they looked nothing like the characters from the film, and by the 80s Disney had gotten the hang of perfectly recreating their animated characters, so keeping them had no use.

I am thinking of making miniature recreations of some of the cutouts though, and I'll definitely post them here if I do.

It’s awesome you’re thinking of recreating the cutouts in miniature form. If you do, perhaps do “David Hall” alternate versions? Based on 1930s concept art?

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Now I want to know what became of the original cutouts from the attraction.

There's this part of the mural that survives from Snow White:

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Also, I think it's pretty clear that by this point the 1955 dark rides were already very outdated, as Disney's level of quality in their attractions skyrocketed during the 60s. Perhaps they decided to recreate the Disneyland dark rides with the intent of eventually copying them back to Anaheim if the Florida counterparts were a hit?

That's fair, especially because they basically did - the 83 New Fantasyland brought over replicas of many of the figures developed for WDW's Fantasyland. The only one that didn't benefit was Pinocchio since even WDW didn't have figures that suit it - Even Toad added the Toad statue in the Queue from WDW's iteration. But it also lends itself to the idea that the Castle Walkthrough may not have lent too much to a WDW Sleeping Beauty ride.

I can't help but hope they would have moved the proposed Sleepy Hollow Ride over to the site where Pan was actually built - it would have been the perfect transition between Liberty Square and Fantasyland!

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Even Toad added the Toad statue in the Queue from WDW's iteration.

The Toad and Cycil statue in the town square are also from WDW:

I'm actually surprised at how long the old facade with the 2D Toad picture at WDW. It was still there in 1991!


The small Toad statue (based on the one on Disneyland's facade) and the new sign must've come during the same refurb that added the DL version of the Merrily Song and the 2 row motorcars.