Open Our eyes! Are Refurbs really always positive?

[Pixie Duster]

re·ha·bil·i·tate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rh-bl-tt)
tr.v. re·ha·bil·i·tat·ed, re·ha·bil·i·tat·ing, re·ha·bil·i·tates
To restore to good health or useful life, as through therapy and education.
To restore to good condition, operation, or capacity.
To reinstate the good name of.
To restore the former rank, privileges, or rights of.


re·fur·bish ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-fûrbsh)
tr.v. re·fur·bished, re·fur·bish·ing, re·fur·bish·es
To make clean, bright, or fresh again; renovate.


A rehab is not removing a ride. A rehab is fixing up or slightly changing the existing ride. The removal of Horizons nor the original Alien Encounter do not qualify as rehabs. Just clarifying

 

[WDWhumanmap]

re·ha·bil·i·tate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rh-bl-tt)
tr.v. re·ha·bil·i·tat·ed, re·ha·bil·i·tat·ing, re·ha·bil·i·tates
To restore to good health or useful life, as through therapy and education.
To restore to good condition, operation, or capacity.
To reinstate the good name of.
To restore the former rank, privileges, or rights of.


re·fur·bish ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-fûrbsh)
tr.v. re·fur·bished, re·fur·bish·ing, re·fur·bish·es
To make clean, bright, or fresh again; renovate.


A rehab is not removing a ride. A rehab is fixing up or slightly changing the existing ride. The removal of Horizons nor the original Alien Encounter do not qualify as rehabs. Just clarifying

Actually to clarify that with some Background information. Horizons only closed for what they said was a rehab then for 2 yrs it never reopened then they knocked it down.
Alien Encounter though just closed so i was wrong on one count.
And sorry for my weird jargon i been on Jury Duty for the past 2 weeks.

 

[Pixie Duster]

I know that's what they put Horizons down as, but that is not a true rehab, and thus should not be the basis for one's entire judgement of rehabs as a whole.

 

[civileng68]

read

I am sorry I was responding to what I thought was the real reason for this thread. If you want this thread to be another Eisner vs. Roy thing then make sure your title and original post strongly communicates that.

I see no point in numerous Roy vs. Eisner threads. We know there is a large number of people who do not like Eisner. Yes, we know it's time for change. So what are you actually going to do about it?

Are you reading my entire post? I never mentioned anything as Roy Vs. Eisner. Never. I mentioned Roy as referring to someone else's post and then said I dont care who it is as long as it's a tandum.

To the other poster. I think refurbs are needed. They have to be done to even keep your old attractions alive. However, my point is to actually not fix them just to the point where you can say you fixed stuff. They leave refurbs and the "expensive" fixes are still not fixed. That was my point.

My point also was once again, do we really think Eisner is now forgiven that the Magic Kingdom is being cleaned up? Why don't we wait to see in the next could of years (if he's there) if it stays this way. Many are predicting he's doing this to save his hide and have the place looking tidy for the 5oth.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Focus on the Goal

Good points, and it brings us back to the key issue.
Eventually it doesn't matter what the real reason for something being done, and it doesn't matter who gets the credit.

I am very happy that DL and WDW are being refurbished, rehabilitated, renewed and maybe even reenergized. That is what I care about. That new attractions are more Expedition Everest and less Dinorama. CoP seems to have gotten a much needed transfusion hallelulah! Maybe more creative rides and dark rides to come. :sohappy:

Disney is moving back to Disney and to heck with whatever happens and whomever it happens to in the back rooms.

 

[paulcmartens]

There is no one person suitable for taking the helm of Disney. Eisner is a perfect example of this.... hell, WALT was a perfect example of this. A 2 person team is what will be needed for a replacement. 1 financial genius, and 1 creative genius.

And Eisners time is definitely due. It's bad when my stockbroker, a man who LIVES for money, calls Eisner 'the devil.'

Well, I disagree and agree here...

First, no one is the devil...'cept yourselves (and maybe pixie...j.k.)!

2) if you are going to replicate the 'two person dream team' its not a financial genius that you need, but a detail genius...and accountant, lawyer, whathave you, a psychological second born, teamed up with a psychological third born, a 'Walt', a creative type. You need a corrective agent and a 'strong' personality '3' agent if you were trying to replicate what Walt and Roy had. Unfortunatley with the advent of birth control and easy as can be abortion, 2/5 personalities are harder to come by these days. Blame progress.

c) what where we talking about again?

iv) yes, the leadership is just that, leadership...and there is good and bad with that, as with every personality....Just like any of us, Eisner has done good and bad. Is he right for the company? Why not? He's really put out a lot of good hotels, and introduced the notion of affordability to a Disney vacation (there is good and bad with that). Is he bad? Sure, you could argue that. He's a businessman, and originally the company was headed by a friendly, creative man who had a habit of building up steam and blowing his stack.

Ranting and raving is fun, but get's us nowhere.

Eisner is not the devil.

And Roy is no angel (hello, who picked Eisner, you Roy supporters willing to risk that again?)

Things are the way they are...let it play out...its very entertaining.

 

[civileng68]

attractions

Clemsontiger,

Let me ask, most of us love the classic attractions and they are still fun today.

However, do you think MS will have the "classic effect" 20 years from now? When the technology is outdated and everyone has ridden it many times, do you think it will have the effect the POTC and others have?

I do think E.E. may have that effect, depending on how cool the atmosphere is, but something about MS just leaves me thinking the "sticking" factor will wear off down the road.

 

[civileng68]

Things are the way they are...let it play out...its very entertaining.

No! I'm going to get my brotherin together (Me, Grizz and MKT) and we are going to establish a "coup" and we will be rolling down main street with tanks and Humvees. We're going to save the mouse!

 

[paulcmartens]

No! I'm going to get my brotherin together (Me, Grizz and MKT) and we are going to establish a "coup" and we will be rolling down main street with tanks and Humvees. We're going to save the mouse!

Nobody needs saving!!

(except maybe you ...from prison! lol!)

 

[civileng68]

Nobody needs saving!!

(except maybe you ...from prison! lol!)

What about Mikey's hide?


:lol:

Ok, no tanks or Humvees, we'll come in on souped up Doombuggies (well equipped of course).

 

[careship]

I honestly think that most everyone has a valid point. I am also a firm believer of a dual leadership, one to create and one to find the money to accomplish it. That was how it all began and that's how it is most effective. No matter who takes over for Eisner, nothing will change with a snap of the fingers. It just can't happen like that. As for the recent work, do you think much of it would even have been done if not for the 50th anniversary? I doubt it. Some of the refurbs may have because he had to know it couldn't go on that way. He had to add something new to keep people coming. He looks like the good guy for doing so. Fine, thanks, now leave. As for the Mission Space longevity issue...I love it, it was great and I'll continue to ride it, however.....at some point it will no longer be new and exciting and I would hope that they have made it so that the actually Mission can be changed to renew it. Did that make sense? The movie portion for lack of better technological words to use. The one think about technology these days as opposed to 30+ years ago is that it changes on a daily basis. So, trying to be at the height of technology isn't what will make them stand out because they will spend a fortune trying to keep up. They need to concentrate on attractions that will stand the test of time due to its storyline and things like awesome AA's. How many times can you go into PotC or HM before you don't notice anything you hadn't noticed before? I personally never get sick of seeing how lifelike and how much detail goes into the AA's. It's exciting and fun. Don't get me wrong, I love the coasters and things just as much, but there is a different feeling between the thrill factor and the wow factor. ToT gets the thrill factor, PotC, JC, HM etc get the WOW factor. The blending of all these types of attractions isn't easy I am sure. Sometimes the good old fashioned wow can beat out the thrill anyday. To accomplish the wow factors though takes a creative genius, we may never find one again but we can look for a creative energy paired with a level head to accomplish all of the factors needed, unfortunately it can't happen overnight. The time is now to get new blood and a new energy into the Disney Corporation and that doesn't mean just for the parks either, the entire company needs a shot of adrenaline and creativity. Disney in general needs to imagineer again and find ways to make it work including TV, Movies, animated and parks and the whole brand needs a shot in the arm. Remember, it was never meant to be just a brand, it was meant to be a world of its own that produced magic in all aspects. (Just My Opinion, prepares for the wrath.)

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Let me dance around that one

civileng68
Let me ask, most of us love the classic attractions and they are still fun today.

However, do you think MS will have the "classic effect" 20 years from now? When the technology is outdated and everyone has ridden it many times, do you think it will have the effect the POTC and others have?

I do think E.E. may have that effect, depending on how cool the atmosphere is, but something about MS just leaves me thinking the "sticking" factor will wear off down the road.

Don't know how well you know my "personality" or "platform" here, but generally I am an old schooler, Classic Epcot, similar to Gen. Grizz. With that said, I do think MS has staying power...but as it stands today is incomplete. Similar feelings with test track. The "fantasy" of space travel will continue to thrill many of us as it is unlikely that we will experience it firsthand. Likewise, driving a convertable "race car" will always have a home with the under 16s.

They don't however have the same "effect" as PoTC, HM, WoM or Horizons. That is a classic Disney approach and we do need NEW presentations of that same ilk.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Pixie Duster]

Change is the only constant in life.


I think it'd be best if I leave this thread alone, cause I just can't get over the fact that it seems that some people just can't be happy. If you really feel this way, that everything is just a cover up, etc. fine I am not going to be able to change your mind. Just as you are not going to change my mind that Soarin in the Land is a terrible thing.
So carry on and enjoy.

Me, I know it's best I just leave this thread because I appreciate the improvements and for once I am not going to dig deeper into it. I have no problems with you or Grizz or really anyone else and I don't want this to become an argument between us.

 

[General Grizz]

No! I'm going to get my brotherin together (Me, Grizz and MKT) and we are going to establish a "coup" and we will be rolling down main street with tanks and Humvees. We're going to save the mouse!

SHHH!!! This was supposed to be secret!! :zipit: :lookaroun

*steps up to pride rock*

*clears throught*

RAWR!

 

[paulcmartens]

I personally appreciate that some people voice their opinions even if it rubs some the wrong away. Ignoring injustice could be viewed as a character flaw!

Funny how rebellion is judged as being so inappropriate at first, then everyone is grateful for it afterwards. You know, those crazy things called democracy, end of slavery...really uncomfortable transitions, but well worth 'the rebellion'.

O.k. so this Disney thing isn't as big...

But! Disney is not under leadership by a creative individual. That's obvious to everyone but a few folks who are high on Pixie Dust.

Walt Disney was a creative individual. And creative folks are rebellious by nature. They are uncooperative. That can be a good thing.

If that's a problem, I guess some folks will have to deal with the D-Army.

"insert military theme music here"
(and if you take life very seriously)
"insert super thick skin here" as this is both serious and a joke.

 

[MKingdom25]

I am sorry I was responding to what I thought was the real reason for this thread. If you want this thread to be another Eisner vs. Roy thing then make sure your title and original post strongly communicates that.............

I agree with Pixie here. Although I think the Eisner-Roy debate is an important issue (and I honestly don't have an opinion so I don't want to jump into this fire :lol: ), I think it should be in a seperate forum area.

What do y'all think? Just one man's opinion here but there it is! :lol:

 

[MKingdom25]

I personally appreciate that some people voice their opinions even if it rubs some the wrong away. Ignoring injustice could be viewed as a character flaw!

Funny how rebellion is judged as being so inappropriate at first, then everyone is grateful for it afterwards. You know, those crazy things called democracy, end of slavery...really uncomfortable transitions, but well worth 'the rebellion'.

Wow that was way too deep when I read it about 11 pm! :lol:

Just kidding tho, point well made. :sohappy:

 

[civileng68]

well said

I personally appreciate that some people voice their opinions even if it rubs some the wrong away. Ignoring injustice could be viewed as a character flaw!

Funny how rebellion is judged as being so inappropriate at first, then everyone is grateful for it afterwards. You know, those crazy things called democracy, end of slavery...really uncomfortable transitions, but well worth 'the rebellion'.

O.k. so this Disney thing isn't as big...

But! Disney is not under leadership by a creative individual. That's obvious to everyone but a few folks who are high on Pixie Dust.

Walt Disney was a creative individual. And creative folks are rebellious by nature. They are uncooperative. That can be a good thing.

If that's a problem, I guess some folks will have to deal with the D-Army.

"insert military theme music here"
(and if you take life very seriously)
"insert super thick skin here" as this is both serious and a joke.

Very very well said.

To Pixie Dust. I am not unable to be pleased. However, I have made myself very sucessful. I am 25 years old and among the youngest people at my company and with that, I am in a very high position on a nice salary. I am responsible for about 50 employees. I don't say that to brag but to say that you get to places like that by demanding the best from people. When an employee comes to work, if he isn't here to do the best job he can, he goes home.
the same goes with Disney. I get upset because I have Walt expectations. I expect the park to be upheld to certain standards. It's not always an attack but a hope for something better.

If everyone who was disappointed with a company never said anything you'd never have great companies out there.

No company in American became great from having people that are easily pleased making decisions.

So, I know it sounds annoying but, I know when to give credit, and have. But, I also know when things are being snuck around right under my nose. I have the ability to smell it. I just think current management skims things as cheaply as possible and then tries to tell us it's for reasons that are not true, such as with not changing the film on Soarin to make it unique to WDW.

So, in ending, I am sorry if you cannot get over that I am not satisfied by Disney's performance, but, you know what? It's just the way it is. I'm not.
I also agree with this quote above because it's funny because one side says "you should be free to speak your mind" but it's only as long as it's on "your side". Do you realize that defnding Disney is speaking your mind as well?

 

[civileng68]

good point

Don't know how well you know my "personality" or "platform" here, but generally I am an old schooler, Classic Epcot, similar to Gen. Grizz. With that said, I do think MS has staying power...but as it stands today is incomplete. Similar feelings with test track. The "fantasy" of space travel will continue to thrill many of us as it is unlikely that we will experience it firsthand. Likewise, driving a convertable "race car" will always have a home with the under 16s.

They don't however have the same "effect" as PoTC, HM, WoM or Horizons. That is a classic Disney approach and we do need NEW presentations of that same ilk.

Hope that answers your question.

Yes I see your side. I still question if MS will have the lasting effect, but because of America's obsession with high powered engines, I think Test Track will last. I may be totally wrong about MS however.

I think though that you touched on something that is basically what I am trying to get to. I wish Disney would build more "dark" attractions and attractions like POTC, Winnie the Pooh, Peter Pan, etc. They are not as expensive and less thrilling, but they have the Pixie Dust magic that Disney is known for. That's what originally gave Disney it's name. Not TOT, MS or the others, even though I love them. Disney was known for classics.

 

[KevinPage]

Obviously Eisner is not involved in small decisions like the removal of a stage in Tomorrowland. BUT Eisner has been know in the past to be very HANDS on with minute things, so it always is a possibility. But I think people are joking when they make remarks about Eisner removing this or that. It's more of a corporate mindset in the company that comes from the CEO and trickles downward, which creates the stigma of close, get rid of, or not refurb it properly.

Did the shareholder meeting cause all the recent rehabs? Maybe not directly, I think the main impetous was the removal of Paul "Shopping Mall" Pressler. He pulled the purse strings at the parks. So he and his cronies are directly to blame for not keeping things in proper shape. Now that Matt Quiment is running Disneyland, you see how someone who cares will convince upper management they need $$$ for things. So you have to have a proper supporting hands on cast of people who inform upper management of things that need to be done. You can't expect Eisner to know if a handrail is broken in Adventureland and to directly fix it. Things have to go through the proper chain of command. and unless you have people on the front line that CARE, nothing is going to get done.

You could be the most caring person in the world running Magic Kingdom, but if you are only given a certain budget, you have to prioritize. Keep rides up and running or sink the money into painting a building or getting new trash cans, etc.

Which has been the problem in recent years, upper management has put people in place who affect these types of decision and don't care about Disney as much as previous people did. Hence, you see the slip in quality.