On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[MisterPenguin]

Yep. I’m not chasing a conspiracy theory here, just trying to decide whether to engage or skip this thread and jump back into any of the 27 COVID threads.

pfft. Every thread can be a COVID thread!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That is simply not true. When they first announced their reopening, bookings were pretty good toward the winter holidays. Then the quarantine orders with (empty?) monetary threats came in. People are canceling like crazy out of fear. Most will want to return next year, so IF the situation improves, they should rebound. If there’s no vaccine? Who the hell knows?

Bookings were good toward Christmas because their assumption was it would be “back to normal”...and opportunists saw an angle toward a time that would have been booked long ago.

But those were more “placeholders”...as they all would bail if things weren’t “perfect”

There was little chance of that from the start.

 

[TeriofTerror]

That just tells me that (a) you're not a coaster junkie, (b) you're addicted to Disney, and (c) do you have a spare room you'd like to rent?

I actually love coasters, but my husband doesn't.
I am a Disney junkie. But for me, it's about the vacation experience. CP is just a trip to a park. I'm still surrounded by real life. WDW is an escape from the day-to-day where people are taking care of me and catering to my whims, instead of me always taking care of everyone else. There's no bubble at Cedar Point where I can disconnect from the outside world.
My daughter generally just comes home on weekends, so her room is often available.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The point went right over your head, didn't it?

First of all, as I already said, most of those states are not within easy driving distance of Disney. Not impossible and some people do it, but most would fly and most people aren't going to fly right now regardless. Beyond that, some of those quarantine orders aren't being enforced. I know for a fact South Carolina's is not enforced for anyone who is driving. You're being naive if you think the quarantine orders are having any kind of significant effect on WDW attendance.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

The number of people who are 1) willing to deal with masks and risk COVID to go to the Magic Kingdom AND 2) unwilling to deal with masks and risk COVID to fly in an airplane to get to the Magic Kingdom is exactly zero.

Loads of people in the northeast are ready and willing to fly, but the airports are the one place where governors actually can and will enforce the quarantine restrictions. I had a non-Disney trip planned for the end of August that I had to cancel because the lists they're generating at the airports are going to the schools and my kids wouldn't have been able to start in the fall.

Of course they don't, but you're assuming there's some kind of huge backlog of people who would absolutely be coming to Disney if there were no quarantine orders. That seems incredibly naive to me. I'm sure there would be some and attendance would increase, but if every single quarantine order was lifted today Disney would not suddenly have a mass influx of visitors rushing to the parks. I think you guys are vastly overestimating how much the average American pays attention to or cares about something like a quarantine order if it's not being strictly enforced (and while it may be in some states, it certainly isn't in all).

It absolutely IS being enforced in the states from which Disney draws most of their guests.

People aren't going to Disney because of Covid.

COVID is third on the list.

1. Masks
2. Travel restrictions.
3. Covid (the virus itself, i.e. people being afraid of it)

 

[UNCgolf]

That is simply not true. When they first announced their reopening, bookings were pretty good toward the winter holidays. Then the quarantine orders with (empty?) monetary threats came in. People are canceling like crazy out of fear. They call up saying they are afraid of getting in trouble or that they can’t quarantine due to work. Most will want to return next year, so IF the situation improves, they should rebound. If there’s no vaccine? Who the hell knows?

Wow, that's actually shocking to me. It's mainly just Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Ohio (as far as I know) that are actually under relatively strict quarantine orders and have large populations that probably visit Disney. That's definitely a hit, but it shouldn't be a huge percentage of their overall visitor base.

Also, I don't think you can definitively blame that on quarantine orders. It's just as likely that people looked at the numbers surging in the US and decided that maybe things weren't going to be perfectly fine and safe to travel in the winter.

 

[Jrb1979]

I actually love coasters, but my husband doesn't.
I am a Disney junkie. But for me, it's about the vacation experience. CP is just a trip to a park. I'm still surrounded by real life. WDW is an escape from the day-to-day where people are taking care of me and catering to my whims, instead of me always taking care of everyone else. There's no bubble at Cedar Point where I can disconnect from the outside world.
My daughter generally just comes home on weekends, so her room is often available.

You can have that escape staying at Hotel Breakers. When I go to Cedar Point its where I stay and have just as much fun staying there and being in the Cedar Point bubble then the Disney one. Give me Steel Vengeance over RoTR any day.

 

[UNCgolf]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

The number of people who are 1) willing to deal with masks and risk COVID to go to the Magic Kingdom AND 2) unwilling to deal with masks and risk COVID to fly in an airplane to get to the Magic Kingdom is exactly zero.

Loads of people in the northeast are ready and willing to fly, but the airports are the one place where governors actually can and will enforce the quarantine restrictions. I had a non-Disney trip planned for the end of August that I had to cancel because the lists they're generating at the airports are going to the schools and my kids wouldn't have been able to start in the fall.

That doesn't disprove anything I said. I never said or even insinuated there weren't any people who weren't travelling for that reason. I said it's not the reason WDW attendance is so low, because there are huge numbers of people who go to Disney and could go to Disney right now but are not.

You're acting like 90% of WDW visitors come from the northeast which isn't remotely true. It hurts Disney's attendance, but it's only a piece of a much larger pie. It's not anywhere near being the whole pie, or even the majority of it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That doesn't disprove anything I said. I never said or even insinuated there weren't any people who weren't travelling for that reason. I said it's not the reason WDW attendance is so low, because there are huge numbers of people who go to Disney and could go to Disney right now but are not.

I never said travel restrictions were the sole factor or even the primary factor. All I said is that they're a non-trivial factor. Nothing is monocausal. It is ONE OF the reasons attendance is so low.

More importantly, it's the one factor that Disney execs. didn't know when they made the decision to reopen. They knew they'd require masks, and they knew some people wouldn't travel because of the virus. They did not know that 90 million people wouldn't be allowed to go.

You're acting like 90% of WDW visitors come from the northeast which isn't remotely true.

A majority of "normal" domestic WDW guests are currently under travel restrictions. That is absolutely a fact.

 

[larryz]

My daughter generally just comes home on weekends, so her room is often available.

I'll PM you...

 

[crispy]

I think there are many reasons why people aren't going to WDW right now including fear of catching the virus, inability to travel including travel bans, not wanting to wear a mask (especially in the Florida heat), not seeing the value in it for what you will pay, dealing with job loss, etc. One of these factors won't keep everyone away, but all of them together creates a perfect storm.

Personally, we have not yet been affected financially, but I have no idea what tomorrow will bring. If things continue to go the way the are, there is a strong possibility that one or both of us could lose our jobs. There is just no way I would spend thousands of dollars right now on a trip to WDW with all of the uncertainty going on. We are savers by nature, but I am hoarding as much cash as I can right now until this plays out. I mentioned earlier that we are season passholders at Dollywood so will be traveling to that area next month. The cost to us is pretty minimal because we can drive there and use travel rewards. I feel like many people are making similar decisions.

People need down time, but they don't need a WDW vacation. I think many people are doing staycations or are sticking close to home right now.

 

[TeriofTerror]

You can have that escape staying at Hotel Breakers. When I go to Cedar Point its where I stay and have just as much fun staying there and being in the Cedar Point bubble then the Disney one. Give me Steel Vengeance over RoTR any day.

I've visited Hotel Breakers several times, but I'm not a huge fan. And I'm really surprised to hear of a vacation destination like WDW being compared to a day trip location like CP. I'm a Disney snob, tbh. When I do go to CP, I tend to find myself turning up my nose and pointing out all the ways it falls short of Disney standards.
It does have Melt, though, and Melt is pretty great!

 

[Lilofan]

I think there are many reasons why people aren't going to WDW right now including fear of catching the virus, inability to travel including travel bans, not wanting to wear a mask (especially in the Florida heat), not seeing the value in it for what you will pay, dealing with job loss, etc. One of these factors won't keep everyone away, but all of them together creates a perfect storm.

Personally, we have not yet been affected financially, but I have no idea what tomorrow will bring. If things continue to go the way the are, there is a strong possibility that one or both of us could lose our jobs. There is just no way I would spend thousands of dollars right now on a trip to WDW with all of the uncertainty going on. We are savers by nature, but I am hoarding as much cash as I can right now until this plays out. I mentioned earlier that we are season passholders at Dollywood so will be traveling to that area next month. The cost to us is pretty minimal because we can drive there and use travel rewards. I feel like many people are making similar decisions.

People need down time, but they don't need a WDW vacation. I think many people are doing staycations or are sticking close to home right now.

I think first and foremost we need to take care of our health. Being holed up at home some may eat, drink and smoke too much to combat the stress among other things. The obesity epidemic in our country is out of control contributing to the health care costs that continue to rise.

 

[UNCgolf]

A majority of "normal" domestic WDW guests are currently under travel restrictions. That is absolutely a fact.

I think that's arguable. Texas, North Carolina, Florida, and Georgia alone are 70+ million people and I know all four of those states have huge numbers of WDW visitors. Throw in the rest of the southeast (excluding South Carolina) and it's probably a larger population than the states you listed as currently under quarantine, and that's still ignoring a huge part of the country.

Those states (mainly New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Ohio) are definitely a significant portion of the WDW base, but I doubt they're the majority. Not that it really matters -- I'm actually curious about this now, though, and wonder if there's a breakdown somewhere of visitors by state.

 

[Jrb1979]

I've visited Hotel Breakers several times, but I'm not a huge fan. And I'm really surprised to hear of a vacation destination like WDW being compared to a day trip location like CP. I'm a Disney snob, tbh. When I do go to CP, I tend to find myself turning up my nose and pointing out all the ways it falls short of Disney standards.
It does have Melt, though, and Melt is pretty great!

I'm the opposite, I went to MK a couple years ago and wasn't blown away at all. Most rides felt the same with different scenes. Dark rides don't do anything for me. The last time I enjoyed a dark ride at Disney was when Epcot had Horizons and World of Motion. CP is more then a day trip for me. I live 4 hrs away so for me I am there for many days at a time. I can re-ride the same coasters multiple times and not get bored.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I think first and foremost we need to take care of our health. Being holed up at home some may eat, drink and smoke too much to combat the stress among other things. The obesity epidemic in our country is out of control contributing to the health care costs that continue to rise.

I’ve been eating way healthier since I’ve been at home so much.

 

[UNCgolf]

More importantly, it's the one factor that Disney execs. didn't know when they made the decision to reopen. They knew they'd require masks, and they knew some people wouldn't travel because of the virus. They did not know that 90 million people wouldn't be allowed to go.

That's absolutely a good point, although I think they should have at least been aware of the possibility.

 

[TeriofTerror]

I'm the opposite, I went to MK a couple years ago and wasn't blown away at all. Most rides felt the same with different scenes. Dark rides don't do anything for me. The last time I enjoyed a dark ride at Disney was when Epcot had Horizons and World of Motion. CP is more then a day trip for me. I live 4 hrs away so for me I am there for many days at a time. I can re-ride the same coasters multiple times and not get bored.

So we both have parks we love, which is awesome. And neither of us has to worry about being stuck in line behind the other!
And now I can't stop thinking about the Adventurers Club. "All the way from Sandusky, Ohio..."

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I've visited Hotel Breakers several times, but I'm not a huge fan. And I'm really surprised to hear of a vacation destination like WDW being compared to a day trip location like CP. I'm a Disney snob, tbh. When I do go to CP, I tend to find myself turning up my nose and pointing out all the ways it falls short of Disney standards.
It does have Melt, though, and Melt is pretty great!

Cedar Point is a great destination because you have the beach plus the park. Easy to spend 2 days at that park.

I’m a particular fan of the steam railroad of course I was sad they took out the little river boat ride though.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Those states (mainly New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Ohio) are definitely a significant portion of the WDW base, but I doubt they're the majority. Not that it really matters -- I'm actually curious about this now, though, and wonder if there's a breakdown somewhere of visitors by state.

Unless something has recently changed, the majority of DVC members are from Florida, New York, and New Jersey. However, I do not know if the figures that were shared with me account for population density.

 

[Ben_since_1971]

The point went right over your head, didn't it?

First of all, as I already said, most of those states are not within easy driving distance of Disney. Not impossible and some people do it, but most would fly and most people aren't going to fly right now regardless. Beyond that, some of those quarantine orders aren't being enforced. I know for a fact South Carolina's is not enforced for anyone who is driving. You're being naive if you think the quarantine orders are having any kind of significant effect on WDW attendance.

Of course they don't, but you're assuming there's some kind of huge backlog of people who would absolutely be coming to Disney if there were no quarantine orders. That seems incredibly naive to me. I'm sure there would be some and attendance would increase, but if every single quarantine order was lifted today Disney would not suddenly have a mass influx of visitors rushing to the parks. I think you guys are vastly overestimating how much the average American pays attention to or cares about something like a quarantine order if it's not being strictly enforced (and while it may be in some states, it certainly isn't in all).

People aren't going to Disney because of Covid.

Air travel restrictions are a different topic to me. That definitely has a bigger effect even just with less flights available and less capacity on those flights, beyond anything else mandated by the states.

(Bolding is mine)

I can only speak for myself, but the quarantine orders are definitely playing a role in my decision on whether to take my September trip or not. I am not afraid of air travel, and I am confident in both Disney's and my ability to be safe for the duration of my stay (solo trip Sept 8-15). Arguments about less of an experience are moot for me as I go every year. I am comfortable with the cost/experience I will get. I have open eyes. Plus this is a half golf/half Disney trip for me - if it were 100% Disney I would have pause but I digress.

I live in Massachusetts, and effective Saturday there is a new travel order requiring me to fill out a form and quarantine for 14 days unless I can produce a negative test taken either 72 hours before arrival in MA, or sometime during the 14 day period. My employer also has a requirement that I quarantine for 14 days or a negative test before I can return to work (although I can get a work from home exception through my manager). For the state, there is a $500 per incident fine for non-compliance. No, the state police will not be out looking for violators. But you are dang straight I will be following it IF I go. I say IF, because while I could do the 14 days standing on my head, did I mention this is a solo trip? I would have to quarantine from my wife. And my wife is 60+. So living out of the guest room and taking uber precautions eating and bathing, not to mention no physical contact, while obeying a very reasonable order from the state (although I do question the form, but again I digress), this quarantine is definitely making me rethink my trip.

So while I am only one person, the quarantines definitely are impacting travel decisions and if not in place would definitely show an increase in attendance at WDW.