Old Key West 2057

[Lensman]

I say it this way for a reason - those who have contracts that end are signed quitclaim deeds. Remember the entire resort was extended to 2057. Only those who signed the quitclaim have theirs ending in 2042.

For those without a quitclaim, but haven't paid, I have no idea. Again you didn't pay to extend, you paid to not sign a quitclaim. There aren't many of us out there in this situation I think. Every once in a while you see a quitclaim form go through the OC comptroller.

I was discussing this elsewhere and someone else was thinking that it won't be a big deal for them because they might make more money renting out the points instead of getting MFs. So who knows.

Thanks for explaining your thinking.

After thinking about this again, I seem to recall reading somewhere that in order to sell a non-extended contract, you have to have signed a quitclaim. Or alternatively, that in order to buy a non-extended OKW contract, you have to sign the 2042 quitclaim.

So what you said makes sense in that all OKW 2042 resale contracts end up quitclaimed.

 

[correcaminos]

Thanks for explaining your thinking.

After thinking about this again, I seem to recall reading somewhere that in order to sell a non-extended contract, you have to have signed a quitclaim. Or alternatively, that in order to buy a non-extended OKW contract, you have to sign the 2042 quitclaim.

So what you said makes sense in that all OKW 2042 resale contracts end up quitclaimed.

I'm not sure I follow. A "non extended contract" has a quitclaim already. Also all 2042 contracts are 2042 end year because of a signed quitclaim.

To explain again ALL of OKW was extended. There is no portion of the resort that is not extended. Only contracts with a quitclaim signed end in 2042. This is contract specific and it means DVC gets those contracts back early since the signed form means the owner is quitting their claim early. If you did not pay, you either have to pay up or sign a quitclaim. If you paid, you don't have to worry about anything and follow the current 2057 end date.

For those in limbo, sellers of resale have reported either you sign the quitclaim or you pay up just like they asked of us over 10 years ago. They cannot force someone to do something otherwise. Even then many debated if they were allowed to force us to do either.

There was a time when DVC allowed those that signed a quitclaim to effectively pay to nullify the quitclaim attached to the contract too. Who knows if they will ever offer that regularly again.

 

[Lensman]

I'm not sure I follow. A "non extended contract" has a quitclaim already. Also all 2042 contracts are 2042 end year because of a signed quitclaim.

To explain again ALL of OKW was extended. There is no portion of the resort that is not extended. Only contracts with a quitclaim signed end in 2042. This is contract specific and it means DVC gets those contracts back early since the signed form means the owner is quitting their claim early. If you did not pay, you either have to pay up or sign a quitclaim. If you paid, you don't have to worry about anything and follow the current 2057 end date.

For those in limbo, sellers of resale have reported either you sign the quitclaim or you pay up just like they asked of us over 10 years ago. They cannot force someone to do something otherwise. Even then many debated if they were allowed to force us to do either.

There was a time when DVC allowed those that signed a quitclaim to effectively pay to nullify the quitclaim attached to the contract too. Who knows if they will ever offer that regularly again.

I think we're getting hung up on terminology.

Perhaps incorrectly, I use the term "non-extended contract" to mean a contract where the extension hasn't been paid for. I synonymously use "2042 contract" to mean the same thing. They both encompass two categories of contracts, those where a quitclaim has been signed and the "limbo" contracts where no quitclaim has been signed.

I'd be happy to use whatever terminology you think is better for these categories. I just discourage the idea of using "quitclaimed contract" to describe a contract where the extension hasn't been paid for but the quitclaim hasn't been signed.

 

[correcaminos]

I think we're getting hung up on terminology.

Perhaps incorrectly, I use the term "non-extended contract" to mean a contract where the extension hasn't been paid for. I synonymously use "2042 contract" to mean the same thing. They both encompass two categories of contracts, those where a quitclaim has been signed and the "limbo" contracts where no quitclaim has been signed.

I'd be happy to use whatever terminology you think is better for these categories. I just discourage the idea of using "quitclaimed contract" to describe a contract where the extension hasn't been paid for but the quitclaim hasn't been signed.

I might be. Sorry.

Though there is a difference between the two really. The non-paid non-quitclaim signed contracts (being super specific as to not confuse I hope LOL) really are 2057 but not paid for. You have to sign a quitclaim to have it end in 2042. Per the way it was written the person will either have to sign the quitclaim or pay. They cannot just take the contract away from you in 2042 if you have not signed since you didn't agree to relinquish ownership rights. They technically threatened liens on contracts but quickly got away from that as they really couldn't add a lien we didn't ask for. So those limbo contracts are that. Technically not 2042 but not paid for 2057 - which at 2042 they should maybe (not knowing for sure as I'm no lawyer) be able to get the money from us.

So to me there is a distinct different between a quitclaimed contract and a limbo contract. Limbo haven't relinquished rights in 2042, quitclaimed have.

 

[Lensman]

I might be. Sorry.

Though there is a difference between the two really. The non-paid non-quitclaim signed contracts (being super specific as to not confuse I hope LOL) really are 2057 but not paid for. You have to sign a quitclaim to have it end in 2042. Per the way it was written the person will either have to sign the quitclaim or pay. They cannot just take the contract away from you in 2042 if you have not signed since you didn't agree to relinquish ownership rights. They technically threatened liens on contracts but quickly got away from that as they really couldn't add a lien we didn't ask for. So those limbo contracts are that. Technically not 2042 but not paid for 2057 - which at 2042 they should maybe (not knowing for sure as I'm no lawyer) be able to get the money from us.

So to me there is a distinct different between a quitclaimed contract and a limbo contract. Limbo haven't relinquished rights in 2042, quitclaimed have.

Interesting. (BTW, thanks for being super-specific, it helps!)

Is it true that for limbo contracts you can't just pony up the $25 per point nowadays, though? If true, that would make the limbo contracts even more in limbo because practically speaking, there's no path out of limbo other than signing the quitclaim.

Since there has to be a path out of limbo, I wonder if it's just that the path isn't favorable to DVD so they don't want to publicize it. For example, I wonder if they are legally obligated to continue to offer the contract extension for $25 per point all the way up through 2042? Note that this possibility is in direct contradiction to the supposition in my previous paragraph.

 

[correcaminos]

Interesting. (BTW, thanks for being super-specific, it helps!)

Is it true that for limbo contracts you can't just pony up the $25 per point nowadays, though? If true, that would make the limbo contracts even more in limbo because practically speaking, there's no path out of limbo other than signing the quitclaim.

Since there has to be a path out of limbo, I wonder if it's just that the path isn't favorable to DVD so they don't want to publicize it. For example, I wonder if they are legally obligated to continue to offer the contract extension for $25 per point all the way up through 2042? Note that this possibility is in direct contradiction to the supposition in my previous paragraph.

I have not heard from resellers that they cannot. The way it was written the only end dates were for the discount on price per point not on when you had to pay. Since our paperwork was lost, I actually spent a lot of time looking into this because I'm curious what will happen to us in 2042. We had signed the quick claim, notarized, sent it back, and they lost it. In 2011, I got a call about the lost paperwork. I had assumed it went through. We did not go in to sign, simply because we had no time and no transportation where they when we were on our big family vacation that was sort of a reunions and anniversary trip into one. Now I'm kind of glad it was lost, cuz I'm curious what will happen in 2042.

They only thing they stopped doing was allowing people to pay to renege on an already signed and filed quitclaim. That was just last year too.

 

[nickys]

I have not heard from resellers that they cannot. The way it was written the only end dates were for the discount on price per point not on when you had to pay. Since our paperwork was lost, I actually spent a lot of time looking into this because I'm curious what will happen to us in 2042. We had signed the quick claim, notarized, sent it back, and they lost it. In 2011, I got a call about the lost paperwork. I had assumed it went through. We did not go in to sign, simply because we had no time and no transportation where they when we were on our big family vacation that was sort of a reunions and anniversary trip into one. Now I'm kind of glad it was lost, cuz I'm curious what will happen in 2042.

They only thing they stopped doing was allowing people to pay to renege on an already signed and filed quitclaim. That was just last year too.

Interesting. So they don’t want those who have already signed a quitclaim to extend...... therefore they must have some kind of plan.

Of course it could just be to re-sell in 2042, maybe to those that have contracts elsewhere that end then - thus allowing them to completely re-do those resorts. 15 years should be enough time! Some people might like a shorter term to take them to a certain age.

And if those owners don’t bite, preferring a newer resort, it also lets them sell DVC to a new generation for a limited time, therefore at a lower price. Lure them in so by 2057 they’ll be hooked and want to buy again.

 

[correcaminos]

Interesting. So they don’t want those who have already signed a quitclaim to extend...... therefore they must have some kind of plan.

Of course it could just be to re-sell in 2042, maybe to those that have contracts elsewhere that end then - thus allowing them to completely re-do those resorts. 15 years should be enough time! Some people might like a shorter term to take them to a certain age.

And if those owners don’t bite, preferring a newer resort, it also lets them sell DVC to a new generation for a limited time, therefore at a lower price. Lure them in so by 2057 they’ll be hooked and want to buy again.

I get why they stopped offering the renege of the quticlaim for cash. Technically it was already done. I was surprised to hear that they had offered it at all. They likely at this point will do better with reselling now. Some have said renting out the rooms might even be far more profitable than the reselling and getting MFs.

It'll be interesting to see what they do. I know we were waiting it out to see. In 2042 we will just be hitting 65 but who knows what offspring will be doing.

 

[Mainahman]

I know this is an old thread, but im looking at OKW to buy into. If i buy a 2042 contract, can i contact DVC and then pay for the extension to 2057? If so that makes these contracts even better to us.

 

[nickys]

I know this is an old thread, but im looking at OKW to buy into. If i buy a 2042 contract, can i contact DVC and then pay for the extension to 2057? If so that makes these contracts even better to us.

Pretty sure that was a one and done thing. Paging @helenabear, because I can never remember the details.

 

[Mainahman]

Pretty sure that was a one and done thing. Paging @helenabear, because I can never remember the details.

LOL its ok. I put in a contact me request at a reseller, and got a call back immediately. They said there is no such thing as a quitclaim, and unless someone did it, the deed ends in 2042. if they did do it, its sold as 2057, or direct is 2057. Honestly to get our feet wet, were thinking 2042 isnt a big deal. that gives us 22 years. we can always add on, at newer resorts, to gain more 11 month windows, and slowly replace those points etc.

 

[correcaminos]

Pretty sure that was a one and done thing. Paging @helenabear, because I can never remember the details.

Last I knew they were not allowing people to pay for the removal of already signed quitclaim deeds. But they were for a while... and who knows if they'll allow it now.

LOL its ok. I put in a contact me request at a reseller, and got a call back immediately. They said there is no such thing as a quitclaim, and unless someone did it, the deed ends in 2042. if they did do it, its sold as 2057, or direct is 2057. Honestly to get our feet wet, were thinking 2042 isnt a big deal. that gives us 22 years. we can always add on, at newer resorts, to gain more 11 month windows, and slowly replace those points etc.

They are flat out wrong. If you signed the quitclaim, it ends in 2042. If you did not sign it, it ends in 2057. Quitclaim literally means quit the claim as in relinquishing your claim early. The entire resort now ends in 2057 unless you signed that quitclaim.

Now I have a deed that neither had a quitclaim filed nor did I pay to not sign a quitclaim. How did that happen? My guide lost my paperwork lol

Not sure how many points you are buying, but might want to look at direct if close to 100 points (which rumor by the way is going to go up to 125 if you want full perks) for OKW. They are offering decent deals right now on a few resorts due to slumping salea.

 

[Mainahman]

Last I knew they were not allowing people to pay for the removal of already signed quitclaim deeds. But they were for a while... and who knows if they'll allow it now.


They are flat out wrong. If you signed the quitclaim, it ends in 2042. If you did not sign it, it ends in 2057. Quitclaim literally means quit the claim as in relinquishing your claim early. The entire resort now ends in 2057 unless you signed that quitclaim.

Now I have a deed that neither had a quitclaim filed nor did I pay to not sign a quitclaim. How did that happen? My guide lost my paperwork lol

Not sure how many points you are buying, but might want to look at direct if close to 100 points (which rumor by the way is going to go up to 125 if you want full perks) for OKW. They are offering decent deals right now on a few resorts due to slumping salea.

SO you would assume that anything listed as a 2042 contract has a quitclaim? a 2042 isnt as bad as it sounds the more i think of it. Ill be 55 and my wife will be 61. will we still want to then? will we be able to? We can always buy more points to cycle those out too.

We want to get at least 160 points first round. Pay that off within 3 years if going resale,then add 100 more.

 

[Mainahman]

Last I knew they were not allowing people to pay for the removal of already signed quitclaim deeds. But they were for a while... and who knows if they'll allow it now.


They are flat out wrong. If you signed the quitclaim, it ends in 2042. If you did not sign it, it ends in 2057. Quitclaim literally means quit the claim as in relinquishing your claim early. The entire resort now ends in 2057 unless you signed that quitclaim.

Now I have a deed that neither had a quitclaim filed nor did I pay to not sign a quitclaim. How did that happen? My guide lost my paperwork lol

Not sure how many points you are buying, but might want to look at direct if close to 100 points (which rumor by the way is going to go up to 125 if you want full perks) for OKW. They are offering decent deals right now on a few resorts due to slumping salea.

Called Disney and for 150 points direct, vs 160 points resale, over the length of the contract. 21 years not counting this year, and 26 direct. DIsney direct was 150 more a year. was worth a call, but that seems to me to be a bit much.

 

[correcaminos]

Called Disney and for 150 points direct, vs 160 points resale, over the length of the contract. 21 years not counting this year, and 26 direct. DIsney direct was 150 more a year. was worth a call, but that seems to me to be a bit much.

$150 more total a year? Per year that makes it actually easier to stomach for me. Total prices are high though I am sure.

I was thinking if you were doing 100 points OKW it might be closer in price. 150 is high enough that any savings are usually gone. 100 or less the savings change and sub 100 contracts at least usually are harder to snag.

SO you would assume that anything listed as a 2042 contract has a quitclaim? a 2042 isnt as bad as it sounds the more i think of it. Ill be 55 and my wife will be 61. will we still want to then? will we be able to? We can always buy more points to cycle those out too.

We want to get at least 160 points first round. Pay that off within 3 years if going resale,then add 100 more.

No, I do not assume, I flat out know that's the procedure. I was a part of the whole mess. The deal was the whole resort was extended to 2057. In order for Disney to make cash, they said you had to pay up or sign a quitclaim. It was really not well received by most honestly. So DVC has been snagging up a lot more than average OKW (pre-covid) that were quitclaim signed contracts so they could resell at a profit. Makes the deal with 2042 easier for them too I think.

You are young enough that the end date could matter. I would buy SSR if you would love staying there. Though keep in mind that the MFs could jump this year due to refurb issues. That's why OKWs are so much higher, one bad refurb and wham... yuck.

 

[Mainahman]

$150 more total a year? Per year that makes it actually easier to stomach for me. Total prices are high though I am sure.

I was thinking if you were doing 100 points OKW it might be closer in price. 150 is high enough that any savings are usually gone. 100 or less the savings change and sub 100 contracts at least usually are harder to snag.


No, I do not assume, I flat out know that's the procedure. I was a part of the whole mess. The deal was the whole resort was extended to 2057. In order for Disney to make cash, they said you had to pay up or sign a quitclaim. It was really not well received by most honestly. So DVC has been snagging up a lot more than average OKW (pre-covid) that were quitclaim signed contracts so they could resell at a profit. Makes the deal with 2042 easier for them too I think.

You are young enough that the end date could matter. I would buy SSR if you would love staying there. Though keep in mind that the MFs could jump this year due to refurb issues. That's why OKWs are so much higher, one bad refurb and wham... yuck.

So in this case were likely better off going with the resale at OKW then you think? Yea thats a big NO on SSR. Its a place i Never want to stay, or in a situation where i need to stay there.

 

[Mainahman]

$150 more total a year? Per year that makes it actually easier to stomach for me. Total prices are high though I am sure.

I was thinking if you were doing 100 points OKW it might be closer in price. 150 is high enough that any savings are usually gone. 100 or less the savings change and sub 100 contracts at least usually are harder to snag.


No, I do not assume, I flat out know that's the procedure. I was a part of the whole mess. The deal was the whole resort was extended to 2057. In order for Disney to make cash, they said you had to pay up or sign a quitclaim. It was really not well received by most honestly. So DVC has been snagging up a lot more than average OKW (pre-covid) that were quitclaim signed contracts so they could resell at a profit. Makes the deal with 2042 easier for them too I think.

You are young enough that the end date could matter. I would buy SSR if you would love staying there. Though keep in mind that the MFs could jump this year due to refurb issues. That's why OKWs are so much higher, one bad refurb and wham... yuck.

Out the door price before any financing ( short term with yearly lump payments) for direct was 24000 for 150 points ending in 2057. I can get a 2042 resale for 15 and some change for 160 points.

 

[correcaminos]

Out the door price before any financing ( short term with yearly lump payments) for direct was 24000 for 150 points ending in 2057. I can get a 2042 resale for 15 and some change for 160 points.

Right, larger numbers make it harder to swallow for sure. For the OKW resale you are looking at $4.25 ish per point per year. For direct if my math is right you have $4.32 per point per year. If the OKW resale at 22 years was actually 35 the total would be closer to the $24k than you think. But you have to decide if those extra 17 years is worth the $9k or not.

If it were 100% like for like the resale would be an absolute no brainer for me.

If you have no plans at all of ever staying at SSR, don't buy there. It's not worth it IMO at all.

 

[Mainahman]

Right, larger numbers make it harder to swallow for sure. For the OKW resale you are looking at $4.25 ish per point per year. For direct if my math is right you have $4.32 per point per year. If the OKW resale at 22 years was actually 35 the total would be closer to the $24k than you think. But you have to decide if those extra 17 years is worth the $9k or not.

If it were 100% like for like the resale would be an absolute no brainer for me.

If you have no plans at all of ever staying at SSR, don't buy there. It's not worth it IMO at all.

We're doing our research. Alot of it comes down to we just don't know in 21 years where we will be. I'll be 55 and my wife 61. Will we have decided it was fun, but we can't do it anymore, or will we have purchased more points and it's time to downsize points anyways so the expiration works out where we go down to less trips on it etc. Direct seems so easy, but the AP isn't needed for us. I'm looking for the unicorn of a 2057 Okw Contract

 

[correcaminos]

We're doing our research. Alot of it comes down to we just don't know in 21 years where we will be. I'll be 55 and my wife 61. Will we have decided it was fun, but we can't do it anymore, or will we have purchased more points and it's time to downsize points anyways so the expiration works out where we go down to less trips on it etc. Direct seems so easy, but the AP isn't needed for us. I'm looking for the unicorn of a 2057 Okw Contract

And that's valid. no one knows what resale will look like in 20 years either to know if that money could be made back. I hope you can find a 2057 contract. they're out there.... but definitely more unicorn like.