Oh no, say it ain't so, Joe..

Surferboy567

Surferboy567

Well-Known Member
TrainChasers said:
If they want to continue with lighthouse point I’m pretty sure they need him. But I’m not sure they want to continue with that.

Trowbridge is gone correct?
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I thought they already bought the island?

EDIT: We don’t know either way on Trowbridge, he was acting like MMRR was his last attraction. He probably would stick around to at least see the DL open? Maybe take on another project?
 
Disneyson

Disneyson

Well-Known Member
They've been pushing Zach and Charita on the D23 podcast like wild.

I imagine, as they are more willing to force IP integration into the story of the parks in a more surface-level and less expensive way than Joe would, they are more cost-effective, less research-based, and (in my experiences with their work) deliver more straightforward projects. Charita began with finance and works largely with screens, for example. She sees the legacy of the company in a very different way that the more heady, layered, scholarly, and (for me, my ABSOLUTE opinion, no stones thrown,) more rewarding work of Joe, where "layers of detail" doesn't just mean that the names of old animators are integrated into the facades of buildings, and instead means that there is a living, breathing story (see Anandapur, or even for the mess that Dino-Rama is, Dinoland, where you can spend hours learning about the land's community and it's relationship with the Animal Kingdom). I always feel awkward when the newer Imagineers have to talk about "hidden secrets" in their attractions. How can there be secrets if they are ripping from the films? The best they can do is discuss a place they snuck a name in, or perhaps a little pneumatic effect in a queue that will break after three years.

They're also younger, and have less ties to the traditional legacy of a more adult Disney like Adventurer's Club, which might sadly count for something. I think this is a huge loss. They're probably also easier to pull in for media events and can give simpler answers.

In the Imagineering Story, there is a long passage near the end about how the best thing about Imagineering is legacy, not only through through documentation, but by passing down the stories and the verbal knowledge to the younger generations. This is something Disney has made abundantly public in their celebration of the company. I hope that the company sees this. I hope they realize that they need to keep some of these people around in order to continue "Our Shared Story", in honor of an indefinitely delayed refurbishment that hilariously might miss the point of sharing ideas all-together based on what some insiders have said about it.

Joe's said, on the documentary, nonetheless, that often he isn't happy with the IP that he's been given. This is a red flag for me and his time at the company. He even expressly mentions Avatar. But he makes lemonade out of those lemons. By firing someone who has such a strong hold on both the past and present of Imagineering, and essentially as a person who calls it like it is AND stays true to the company while doing it... I can imagine this becoming another dark era in Imagineering. In the same show, they mention what happens when the Imagineers get nothing to do. Clones. Overlays. Etc. And what happens when those clones are being conceived of alongside the Imagineers who get unlimited budget (Hello, Fantasy Springs). The two worst parts of Imagineering history are repeating themselves right now, and losing Joe in the midst of them is the most asinine thing they could do.

Storytelling at Disney, to me, feels like it's going the way of sequels. No shade on Charita or Zach, but they are smart in acting like the live-action sequels do: Read the data. Deliver what the customers already know. Re-tread stories. Make some cheeky references to the past and call it "detail". Survive the cuts, keep a job, pray that one day new stories will be valued. They probably have the imagination - so many Imagineers probably do. But they may never be allowed to let it run free.

This is deeply sad news. I hope it isn't true.
 
Surferboy567

Surferboy567

Well-Known Member
Disneyson said:
They've been pushing Zach and Charita on the D23 podcast like wild.

I imagine, as they are more willing to force IP integration into the story of the parks in a more surface-level and less expensive way than Joe would, they are more cost-effective, less research-based, and (in my experiences with their work) deliver more straightforward projects. Charita began with finance and works largely with screens, for example. She sees the legacy of the company in a very different way that the more heady, layered, scholarly, and (for me, my ABSOLUTE opinion, no stones thrown,) more rewarding work of Joe, where "layers of detail" doesn't just mean that the names of old animators are integrated into the facades of buildings, and instead means that there is a living, breathing story (see Anandapur, or even for the mess that Dino-Rama is, Dinoland, where you can spend hours learning about the land's community and it's relationship with the Animal Kingdom). I always feel awkward when the newer Imagineers have to talk about "hidden secrets" in their attractions. How can there be secrets if they are ripping from the films? The best they can do is discuss a place they snuck a name in, or perhaps a little pneumatic effect in a queue that will break after three years.

They're also younger, and have less ties to the traditional legacy of a more adult Disney like Adventurer's Club, which might sadly count for something. I think this is a huge loss. They're probably also easier to pull in for media events and can give simpler answers.

In the Imagineering Story, there is a long passage near the end about how the best thing about Imagineering is legacy, not only through through documentation, but by passing down the stories and the verbal knowledge to the younger generations. This is something Disney has made abundantly public in their celebration of the company. I hope that the company sees this. I hope they realize that they need to keep some of these people around in order to continue "Our Shared Story", in honor of an indefinitely delayed refurbishment that hilariously might miss the point of sharing ideas all-together based on what some insiders have said about it.

Joe's said, on the documentary, nonetheless, that often he isn't happy with the IP that he's been given. This is a red flag for me and his time at the company. He even expressly mentions Avatar. But he makes lemonade out of those lemons. By firing someone who has such a strong hold on both the past and present of Imagineering, and essentially as a person who calls it like it is AND stays true to the company while doing it... I can imagine this becoming another dark era in Imagineering. In the same show, they mention what happens when the Imagineers get nothing to do. Clones. Overlays. Etc. And what happens when those clones are being conceived of alongside the Imagineers who get unlimited budget (Hello, Fantasy Springs). The two worst parts of Imagineering history are repeating themselves right now, and losing Joe in the midst of them is the most asinine thing they could do.

Storytelling at Disney, to me, feels like it's going the way of sequels. No shade on Charita or Zach, but they are smart in acting like the live-action sequels do: Read the data. Deliver what the customers already know. Re-tread stories. Make some cheeky references to the past and call it "detail". Survive the cuts, keep a job, pray that one day new stories will be valued. They probably have the imagination - so many Imagineers probably do. But they may never be allowed to let it run free.

This is deeply sad news. I hope it isn't true.
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Charita is supposed to be spearheading the new Splash right? Seems like a good time to push her before such a big project.
 
Disneyson

Disneyson

Well-Known Member
They also JUST talked to Trowbridge on that podcast - he's been keeping himself safe by working on the Target integration of "Disney Storytelling" with the Galaxy's Edge stuff. I'll bet he's safe.

Never Joe Rhode. I think that's telling.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Rteetz said:
Yes. I believe Marty too was sort of in a consultant role for quite some time. Marty was a face for WDI until he died basically.
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Marty led an ambassador program for awhile, after he retired from head of WDI. It wasn’t full time head of imagineering, but it was more than Baxter.

On the 65th event, Tony said he was working on Splash and he was glad he had something to keep him busy while locked up in the house so much. So he’s still involved to an extent.
 
J

JJJ

Well-Known Member
Surferboy567 said:
I thought they already bought the island?

EDIT: We don’t know either way on Trowbridge, he was acting like MMRR was his last attraction. He probably would stick around to at least see the DL open? Maybe take on another project?
Click to expand...
I think he mentioned he's helping out with the splash redo as well, so I'd imagine he'd stick around/be safe from a layoff until at least that project is done.
 
D

DVCakaCarlF

Well-Known Member
So, overall, I’m sure Joe both bucks the trend in terms of his “method” and pay. He’s likely a dinosaur, of sorts, to the Iger and Chapek crowd, but he carries a “ton” of goodwill with the global community. Furthermore, Josh is likely a fan, and I can’t see him letting Joe go.

But, in all honesty, I’m sure it is/was being discussed and, I sure, Joe knows that. The tiffins talks, parks blog, Instagram series, etc are all ways of “diversifying” his value to TWDC.

Lastly, and I say this with a grain of salt, if he does get canned, he will have a job within seconds at Universal, Carnival, etc. Slap his name on an attraction, and, all of a sudden, it is holy ground...except for Dino land (LOL).
 
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D

DVCakaCarlF

Well-Known Member
DVCakaCarlF said:
So, overall, I’m sure Joe both bucks the trend in terms of his “method” and pay. He’s likely a dinosaur, of sorts, to the Iger and Chapek crowd, but he carries a “ton” of goodwill with the global community. Furthermore, Josh is likely a fan, and I can’t see him letting Joe go.

But, in all honesty, I’m sure it is/was being discussed and, I sure, Joe knows that. The tiffins talks, parks blog, Instagram series, etc are all ways of “diversifying” his value to TWDC.

Lastly, and I say this with a grain of salt, if he does it canned, he will have a job within seconds at Universal, Carnival, etc. Slap his name on an attraction, and, all of a sudden, it is holy ground...except for Dino land (LOL).
Click to expand...
Regarding Dinoland, it actually would be a decent area if they just got rid of the carnival area...the institute theme is great, my kids love the dig area and playground, and the restaurant actually has a cool camp theme, but that center open area is a 3rd grade disaster. Should’ve just made that a jungle.
 
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