No New Nightastic According to Al Lutz

[COProgressFan]

As far as Disney not doing anything because the summer is packed full of people anyway - this is exactly the mentality we should fear. How long before there are no Christmas festivities, 4th of July celebration, or parades or nightly fireworks? After all, people will be there anyways... And I suppose if that is the stance the resort is starting to have - I guess that could explain why we have heard zilch about anything to recognize the 40th anniversary...

I agree with this completely. Where do you draw the line? Maybe they could just turn off every other animatronic on Pirates, or fire the Dapper Dans, or turn off all the air conditioning, etc., etc., since people supposedly will come anyway.

It upsets me to see when Disney "fans" defend Disney for charging the same prices (or raising them) and constantly offering LESS. How is that defendable at all? Don't you want to get the most out of your visit, and the most for your dollar? Those occasional or once in a lifetime visitors have the same goals. For the first 25 years or so WDW constantly strived to offer MORE for their guests.

The "DL is for locals, WDW is for vacationers, so they can offer less" excuse that many constantly repeat, is not only completely illogical, but frankly is getting old. As one poster said earlier, how is the concept of "Summer" any different for SoCal locals or East Coast vacationers?

 

[menamechris]

The "DL is for locals, WDW is for vacationers, so they can offer less" excuse that many constantly repeat, is not only completely illogical, but frankly is getting old. As one poster said earlier, how is the concept of "Summer" any different for SoCal locals or East Coast vacationers?

Exactly! I think I went to Disney twice as much as I would have otherwise last summer, because there was something special going on. It was new things to explore - a new fireworks show to watch - and a fun, summer vibe in the park. As crazy as it sounds, even cast members seemed to be jolted from their everyday routine, and seemed to be enjoying everything going on. It has to be nice when new things are going on for them too.

 

[WDW Monorail]

How inspiring. Why give the people more, when they'll be there anyway?

That's exactly my point. Nightastic didn't bring many more numers as it was expeted to do. Therefore it can't be justified to run it again.

The goal was to bring in more guests and obviously did not happen.

About 3 Aprils ago, Epcot tries running RoE twice a night in hopes of keeping people in the park longer, eating and shopping in World Showcase. After a month or so of double shows, the schedule was reduced to one show again since it wasn't feasible to keep the shops and restaurants open as well as having an extra show. Not enough people were attracted to stay longer.


Someone else mentioned the Haunted Mansion holiday at DL. They can do that there because it is guaranteed to bring more people (locals) in to the park.
There is no guarantee that the same will happen in Florida, even if the downtime is eliminated.

They can't just do something because they feel like it or a handful of people will enjoy it. It has to be justified.

 

[devoy1701]

That's exactly my point. Nightastic didn't bring many more numers as it was expeted to do. Therefore it can't be justified to run it again.

The goal was to bring in more guests and obviously did not happen.

About 3 Aprils ago, Epcot tries running RoE twice a night in hopes of keeping people in the park longer, eating and shopping in World Showcase. After a month or so of double shows, the schedule was reduced to one show again since it wasn't feasible to keep the shops and restaurants open as well as having an extra show. Not enough people were attracted to stay longer.


Someone else mentioned the Haunted Mansion holiday at DL. They can do that there because it is guaranteed to bring more people (locals) in to the park.
There is no guarantee that the same will happen in Florida, even if the downtime is eliminated.

They can't just do something because they feel like it or a handful of people will enjoy it. It has to be justified.

we get your point. Our point is that every action/decision that TDO makes should not have to be justified by "will it make more people come?" and it hasn't always been that way. They should be able to run some offerings (such as different ToT features, alternate MK fireworks, attraction overlays) just for the fact of offering something different for awhile.

 

[menamechris]

That's exactly my point. Nightastic didn't bring many more numers as it was expeted to do. Therefore it can't be justified to run it again.

The goal was to bring in more guests and obviously did not happen.

About 3 Aprils ago, Epcot tries running RoE twice a night in hopes of keeping people in the park longer, eating and shopping in World Showcase. After a month or so of double shows, the schedule was reduced to one show again since it wasn't feasible to keep the shops and restaurants open as well as having an extra show. Not enough people were attracted to stay longer.


Someone else mentioned the Haunted Mansion holiday at DL. They can do that there because it is guaranteed to bring more people (locals) in to the park.
There is no guarantee that the same will happen in Florida, even if the downtime is eliminated.

They can't just do something because they feel like it or a handful of people will enjoy it. It has to be justified.

I think you may have missed the sarcasm in the quote you were replying to. :wave:

I don't know of any evidence that DL offers those things for the sole purpose of bringing locals in. What they do differently is offer new and seasonal things constantly to ensure that the park doesn't stay the same all the time and become stale to the guest. Yes, that in turn keeps their local guests happy and coming back for the "next thing". At WDW, the "locals" are not given that option to come again and again and experience something new. Pretty much what you experienced in January is what you experience in June and in December (minus some decorations - which have also been cutback). So...how can they expect people be excited to come over and over when its all the same?

 

[COProgressFan]

I don't know of any evidence that DL offers those things for the sole purpose of bringing locals in. What they do differently is offer new and seasonal things constantly to ensure that the park doesn't stay the same all the time and become stale to the guest. Yes, that in turn keeps their local guests happy and coming back for the "next thing". At WDW, the "locals" are not given that option to come again and again and experience something new. Pretty much what you experienced in January is what you experience in June and in December (minus some decorations - which have also been cutback). So...how can they expect people be excited to come over and over when its all the same?

Right. It is not possible to have every single expense at WDW justified by the "will it increase attendance" mantra. It is the "total experience" of the parks and resorts that affects attendance. If this "total experience" is the same in Summer of 2008 as it is in December 2010 or July 2011 what is the reason to go back? I ask this honestly. Don't you want new experiences at WDW? It is not a selfish thing, it is what any paying customer would likely expect.

Again, Disneyland is going to be very crowded this summer. They will be open from 8am - midnight most nights like they have been for many years. Does this mean that all the new offerings coming this summer aren't necessary?

 

[TP2000]

When I was at DLR in October it was very clear that a large chunk of the people were not Southern Californians...

Yes, that is my experience too. Certainly WDW gets a lot of people from Cincinnatti or Philadelphia or Atlanta or the UK or Germany who wouldn't go to Disneyland, but Disneyland gets a lot of people from Seattle or San Francisco or Vancouver BC or South Korea or Australia who wouldn't go to WDW.

Disneyland sits in the middle of one of the largest mega-cities on the planet, with 20 million Southern Californians within a two hour freeway drive of the Disneyland turnstiles. But there are also millions and millions of other people flying and driving in to SoCal from all over the place far and wide. Disneyland is kind of a famous place. :lol:

The excuse that "Disneyland is just for locals and WDW is for tourists" is just that, an excuse. And it's an excuse not really grounded in facts or reality that stand up to scrutiny, either.

I'll say it again... How is the concept of summer any different between Central Florida and Southern California?

 

[TP2000]

Again, Disneyland is going to be very crowded this summer. They will be open from 8am - midnight most nights like they have been for many years. Does this mean that all the new offerings coming this summer aren't necessary?

Disneyland is open 8AM to Midnight seven days per week this summer, as they have been doing for decades. The only change to that are the Thursdays through mid June when they have Grad Nite and the park has to close at 9PM to get ready.

From early June through late August the seven day per week operating hours in Anaheim are;

Disneyland 8AM - Midnight , Main Street until 1AM (Magic Morning park opening at 7AM on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays, Sundays)
DCA 10AM - 10PM

Fantasmic runs twice per night at 9:00 and 10:30, seven days per week. Fireworks nightly at 9:30. World of Color runs twice per night, seven days per week at 9:00 and 10:15.

They seem to be at their operational limits in Anaheim to cater to the huge summer crowds. So why bother with new fireworks, extra entertainment, nightly dancing to live bands, etc.? The people will be at Disneyland anyway, so why bother with the extra stuff added and/or changed just for summer?

.

 

[misterID]

Yes, that is my experience too. Certainly WDW gets a lot of people from Cincinnatti or Philadelphia or Atlanta or the UK or Germany who wouldn't go to Disneyland, but Disneyland gets a lot of people from Seattle or San Francisco or Vancouver BC or South Korea or Australia who wouldn't go to WDW.

Disneyland sits in the middle of one of the largest mega-cities on the planet, with 20 million Southern Californians within a two hour freeway drive of the Disneyland turnstiles. But there are also millions and millions of other people flying and driving in to SoCal from all over the place far and wide. Disneyland is kind of a famous place. :lol:

The excuse that "Disneyland is just for locals and WDW is for tourists" is just that, an excuse. And it's an excuse not really grounded in facts or reality that stand up to scrutiny, either.

I'll say it again... How is the concept of summer any different between Central Florida and Southern California?

Good post. WDW would absolutely bring in more locals if it had the Halloween retheming DL does. Somehow people are thinking central Floridians, or Floridans in general, don't or won't go to Disney. They absolutely do, but WDW really hasn't done much to go after them.

The thing is WDW could actually drop in attendance and TDO could make a case that they still don't have to do anything to fix it because they're still #1. They're just relying on tourists, not people who visit parks frequently and are looking for new things to do. TDO does have an advantage there and a pretty firm excuse not to add anything big. They don't have to.

Tourism does play a role in the way the two resorts operate, because DL just doesn't get the numbers of tourists WDW does. And... TDA seems to really actually care about pushing the envelope and making cool attractions.

 

[wizards8507]

we get your point. Our point is that every action/decision that TDO makes should not have to be justified by "will it make more people come?" and it hasn't always been that way. They should be able to run some offerings (such as different ToT features, alternate MK fireworks, attraction overlays) just for the fact of offering something different for awhile.

Team Disney Orlando is in charge of administrative, not operating functions. Everyone around here makes accusations about "TDO" but none of them actually know what "TDO" is. It's a building. It doesn't just refer to everyone who works for Disney on crap that happens in Orlando.

 

[wizards8507]

The thing is WDW could actually drop in attendance and TDO could make a case that they still don't have to do anything to fix it because they're still #1. They're just relying on tourists, not people who visit parks frequently and are looking for new things to do. TDO does have an advantage there and a pretty firm excuse not to add anything big. They don't have to.

See previous.

 

[COProgressFan]

Team Disney Orlando is in charge of administrative, not operating functions. Everyone around here makes accusations about "TDO" but none of them actually know what "TDO" is. It's a building. It doesn't just refer to everyone who works for Disney on crap that happens in Orlando.

This is not correct. TDO is absolutely about operating the entire WDW resort. While Burbank may have a say on big decisions and big picture finances, it is TDO that makes nearly all of the operational decisions.

I, and many others, am familiar with what TDO is, what it was, and what it could/should be.

 

[puntagordabob]

The excuse that "Disneyland is just for locals and WDW is for tourists" is just that, an excuse. And it's an excuse not really grounded in facts or reality that stand up to scrutiny, either.

I'll say it again... How is the concept of summer any different between Central Florida and Southern California?

There isnt...thats the answer....

Good post. WDW would absolutely bring in more locals if it had the Halloween retheming DL does. Somehow people are thinking central Floridians, or Floridans in general, don't or won't go to Disney. They absolutely do, but WDW really hasn't done much to go after them.

Tourism does play a role in the way the two resorts operate, because DL just doesn't get the numbers of tourists WDW does. And... TDA seems to really actually care about pushing the envelope and making cool attractions.

Its a shame really....for both reasons listed here... the stark difference between the two resorts is a real eye opener...

I think "locals" can be used as a broader term at WDW too. Maybe we should be refering to them as "regulars". Because if you think about it, the people on here (and those who aren't) who return to WDW every year and in many cases 2 or 3 times a year are just like the "local" clientel that DL feels it so important to cater too. QUOTE]

Makes sense....

I think this is very true. Given that WDW is in Central Florida, I think that WDW's "locals" are from all over Florida who make day trips to the resort. And there are now more passholders than ever before, thanks to the new monthly payments plan for Florida residents. Even people I know who are not huge Disney people are getting passes, because it is now affordable. ...

Yeah.. if the "local/regular" WDW fanbase were to have a more united voice then perhaps things would improve.

The "DL is for locals, WDW is for vacationers, so they can offer less" excuse that many constantly repeat, is not only completely illogical, but frankly is getting old. As one poster said earlier, how is the concept of "Summer" any different for SoCal locals or East Coast vacationers?

I agree.... in a sense us accepting this "excuse" perpetuates TDO's policy...and after all they do likely have their "observers" on all these message boards!

 

[wizards8507]

This is not correct. TDO is absolutely about operating the entire WDW resort. While Burbank may have a say on big decisions and big picture finances, it is TDO that makes nearly all of the operational decisions.

I, and many others, am familiar with what TDO is, what it was, and what it could/should be.

That's wrong. Meg Crofton, for example, is President of Walt Disney World, but she is NOT "team Disney Orlando." Team Disney Orlando is a BUILDING, not a group of people. I understand that there are operating decisions made IN Orlando but "Team" refers to the building, not the people making the decisions.

Wikipedia is not my source, but perhaps it will help those confused.

Team Disney Orlando in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, is the administrative headquarters of the Walt Disney World Resort. It opened in 1991 and is three times larger than the Team Disney Anaheim building. Designed by architect Arata Isozaki, it sits across from Downtown Disney near the Walt Disney World Casting Center. It claims to hold the largest sundial in the world. It is home to mostly Finance, Accounting, Business Insight & Improvement, and Legal departments. The building also features large silhouettes of the the dwarves from Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs at the front entrance of the building.

 

[menamechris]

That's wrong. Meg Crofton, for example, is President of Walt Disney World, but she is NOT "team Disney Orlando." Team Disney Orlando is a BUILDING, not a group of people. I understand that there are operating decisions made IN Orlando but "Team" refers to the building, not the people making the decisions.

Though there apparently is an actually building titled "Team Disney Orlando" (?), in forums like this, it has always been my assumption personally that people are referring to "the powers that be" - and specifically referring to decision makers collectively. I never once thought the thousands of times that people used "TDO" that they were literally referencing a building. :shrug:

 

[wizards8507]

Though there apparently is an actually building titled "Team Disney Orlando" (?), in forums like this, it has always been my assumption personally that people are referring to "the powers that be" - and specifically referring to decision makers collectively. I never once thought the thousands of times that people used "TDO" that they were literally referencing a building. :shrug:

Lol you're correct. And the thousands of times that people used "TDO" in forums like this, they've been using it incorrectly. There ARE folks in the TDO building but, like my previous post said, those folks are (mostly) finance, legal, and admin folks. The ops folks are elsewhere.

 

[COProgressFan]

That's wrong. Meg Crofton, for example, is President of Walt Disney World, but she is NOT "team Disney Orlando." Team Disney Orlando is a BUILDING, not a group of people. I understand that there are operating decisions made IN Orlando but "Team" refers to the building, not the people making the decisions.

Wikipedia is not my source, but perhaps it will help those confused.

Now this is just being nit-picky. Yes, there is a building called Team Disney Orlando, and executives for the resort work there and various other locations across property (and some off property). Top execs actually work at the old animation building at the Studios.

Team Disney Orlando, or TDO, refers to the executive leadership of the Walt Disney Resort. So yes, Meg Crofton is part of TDO, as is Erin Wallace, or Phil Holmes, etc. Thinking its just about one specific building and the group of folks that work in said building is just silly.

 

[TP2000]

Now this is just being nit-picky. Yes, there is a building called Team Disney Orlando, and executives for the resort work there and various other locations across property (and some off property). Top execs actually work at the old animation building at the Studios.

Team Disney Orlando, or TDO, refers to the executive leadership of the Walt Disney Resort. So yes, Meg Crofton is part of TDO, as is Erin Wallace, or Phil Holmes, etc. Thinking its just about one specific building and the group of folks that work in said building is just silly.

So Meg Crofton, Al Weiss and their immediate executive support that report to them work out of the old animation building at the Studios? I would assume Phil Holmes and the various VP's for each park work in an office in their respective park.

Does the old animation building at the Studios have a name? Or, from now on, are we to refer to the WDW executive team as OABATS instead of TDO, per wizard8507?

.

 

[Krack]

That's wrong. Meg Crofton, for example, is President of Walt Disney World, but she is NOT "team Disney Orlando." Team Disney Orlando is a BUILDING, not a group of people. I understand that there are operating decisions made IN Orlando but "Team" refers to the building, not the people making the decisions.

Wikipedia is not my source, but perhaps it will help those confused.

When people use the term "TDO" they are referring to the decisions coming out of the building. And those decisions ultimately represent the leadership of Crofton (and her executive staff). It's semantics.

 

[SeaCastle]

When people use the term "TDO" they are referring to the decisions coming out of the building. And those decisions ultimately represent the leadership of Crofton (and her executive staff). It's semantics.

On the internet, folks (incorrectly) tend to use "TDO" as a catch-all for any decision-making entity that fouls things up at the parks, whether or not executives in Team Disney Orlando were actually responsible for said decision or not.

The organization is flawed from top to bottom. Whether they're working in an enormous soulless sundial, the offices behind the facades of Main Street, USA, or maintenance sleeping in ride cars in EPCOT, there are decisions being made constantly that affect the park's day-to-day operations that don't have to stem from TDO.