No Fiesta?

[Master Yoda]

It used to be heck-or-highwater an attraction would open on the announced date. Test Track was a major attraction that broke this rule - signifigantly.

Thus, when Journey into Imagination w/ Figment opened I rode it with an Imagineer in the front vehicle with a clipboard taking notes as pretty much everything in the ride failed.

Then lately things have been changing. Monsters Inc pushed back it's opening signifgantly, the Nemo subs at DL have been pushed back several times, and Nemo at Epcot opened but with many downtimes and closesures.

And now Gran Fiesta is pushed back.. no known "official" opening date.

The only constant between these attractions seems to be Lasseter. He came on and all the refurb/build schedules since then have been a bit "wonky" to say the least.

So am I to understand you would rather ride an incomplete, malfunctioning attraction that opened on time rather than have an opening pushed back in order to get it right before guests experience it?

Construction completion dates are an educated guess at best. The more complex the job the more that that date can float. Add remodel into that equation and you might as well get yourself a calender and some darts.

 

[jmvd20]

Construction completion dates are an educated guess at best. The more complex the job the more that that date can float. Add remodel into that equation and you might as well get yourself a calender and some darts.

As a project manager I hate to admit it but....... That is 100% correct. I can pin down down schedules and dates very accurately *IF* no unforseen circumstances arise. If something like that does pop up then it is up to the customer, pay more money for OT to catch up, or push the date back. While I have never worked with WDW I can just about guarantee that for a ride such as this they would push the date back if problems arose.

Unfortunately the more thought out and planned the dates are, the more things seem to go wrong - it's just the way it is.

I still try to hold to the 2 week theory - anyone who has seen the Money Pit knows what I mean

 

[Master Yoda]

As a project manager I hate to admit it but....... That is 100% correct. I can pin down down schedules and dates very accurately *IF* no unforseen circumstances arise. If something like that does pop up then it is up to the customer, pay more money for OT to catch up, or push the date back. While I have never worked with WDW I can just about guarantee that for a ride such as this they would push the date back if problems arose.

Unfortunately the more thought out and planned the dates are, the more things seem to go wrong - it's just the way it is.

I still try to hold to the 2 week theory - anyone who has seen the Money Pit knows what I mean

Exactly. I am involved with everything from 1500 square foot track homes to multi-million dollar commercial and single family structures. Even with the little track homes that have been built dozens of times things go wrong that can add anywhere from days to months to a project.

 

[mousermerf]

At the same time, Disney has raved about their simulation software that "sees problems before they happen" and saves them tons of construction time and keeps their projects on schedule.

It's Disney's own image that they've built themselves up to.

And about housing and other construction having delays. My experience is in theater, scenic design, etc. Opening day is opening day. If you delay your opening, you're seen as a complete failure by those who work in the industry with you. So it's a different mentality then "oh well, within 2 weeks is ok" and moreso the heck-or-highwater situation. You're judged by how well you pull it off. The Figment ride-through where nothing worked told me that Imagineering had someone in there that didn't know what they were doing.

 

[JeffC]

Merf, I feel you pain. But given that Disney had a record year with 112 million people at the parks last year, I sincerely doubt they are going to go back to their old ways and show more consideration for guests. It's sad, but it's business.

I heard that!!!!
I've seen significant changes in customer service the past several years and it's obvious "the Disney Way" isn't there anymore.

 

[Master Yoda]

At the same time, Disney has raved about their simulation software that "sees problems before they happen" and saves them tons of construction time and keeps their projects on schedule.

It's Disney's own image that they've built themselves up to.

And about housing and other construction having delays. My experience is in theater, scenic design, etc. Opening day is opening day. If you delay your opening, you're seen as a complete failure by those who work in the industry with you. So it's a different mentality then "oh well, within 2 weeks is ok" and moreso the heck-or-highwater situation. You're judged by how well you pull it off. The Figment ride-through where nothing worked told me that Imagineering had someone in there that didn't know what they were doing.

While I agree that Disney is an entertainment company and yes in theater opening day is opening day but their attractions, at least as I see it, involve a considerable amount more typical construction than you average theatrical production. Because of that they really open the door to construction delays and no amount of software can predict for material shortages, weather or more importantly the human element. Contractors get their nose bent out of shape and walk off jobs all the time, code officials can nit pick a job to death, suppliers run out of materials you name it there are a myriad of problems that can delay a construction project like this and truly that is what it is. A construction project.

 

[The Mom]

I heard that!!!!
I've seen significant changes in customer service the past several years and it's obvious "the Disney Way" isn't there anymore.

*sigh * I'm afarid I have to agree with you. While I don't think WDW is terrible, and it's still head and shoulders above most other companies as far as customer service goes, it's not the WDW I , or even The Daughter, grew up with.

Is it 100% WDW's fault, or is some of it just a reflection of society as a whole? A little of both, I'm afraid.

I'm afraid that MY generation caused the problem. In our enthusiasm to wipe away the hypocrisy, intolerance, and phony facade of 50s & 60s society, we also wiped away the veneer of courtesy and civility needed to interact comfortably with total strangers on a day to day basis. By my generation saying "I refuse to respect anyone who doesn't deserve my respect," we've created a society where the majority of people believe that very few, if any, people deserve respect, so they don't respect ANYONE. :lol: (including respecting their property, safety, authority, and feelings)

You yourself made a valid complaint about groups who have no respect for others....because they were never taught how to behave. The groups you mentioned are being raised by parents who were raised by MY generation.

 

[JimboJones123]

*sigh * I'm afarid I have to agree with you. While I don't think WDW is terrible, and it's still head and shoulders above most other companies as far as customer service goes, it's not the WDW I , or even The Daughter, grew up with.

Is it 100% WDW's fault, or is some of it just a reflection of society as a whole? A little of both, I'm afraid.

I'm afraid that MY generation caused the problem. In our enthusiasm to wipe away the hypocrisy, intolerance, and phony facade of 50s & 60s society, we also wiped away the veneer of courtesy and civility needed to interact comfortably with total strangers on a day to day basis. By my generation saying "I refuse to respect anyone who doesn't deserve my respect," we've created a society where the majority of people believe that very few, if any, people deserve respect, so they don't respect ANYONE. :lol: (including respecting their property, safety, authority, and feelings)

You yourself made a valid complaint about groups who have no respect for others....because they were never taught how to behave. The groups you mentioned are being raised by parents who were raised by MY generation.

I hate it when society is the downfall of society.

 

[JeffC]

*sigh * I'm afarid I have to agree with you. While I don't think WDW is terrible, and it's still head and shoulders above most other companies as far as customer service goes, it's not the WDW I , or even The Daughter, grew up with.

Is it 100% WDW's fault, or is some of it just a reflection of society as a whole? A little of both, I'm afraid.

I'm afraid that MY generation caused the problem. In our enthusiasm to wipe away the hypocrisy, intolerance, and phony facade of 50s & 60s society, we also wiped away the veneer of courtesy and civility needed to interact comfortably with total strangers on a day to day basis. By my generation saying "I refuse to respect anyone who doesn't deserve my respect," we've created a society where the majority of people believe that very few, if any, people deserve respect, so they don't respect ANYONE. :lol: (including respecting their property, safety, authority, and feelings)

You yourself made a valid complaint about groups who have no respect for others....because they were never taught how to behave. The groups you mentioned are being raised by parents who were raised by MY generation.

Agree. I work in the schools and it amazes me the lack of respect for authority I see FROM PARENTS. You see why the kids act like they do.
Aaaaahhh, the days when you got in trouble at school and knew it was going to be worse at home...

 

[The Mom]

I hate it when society is the downfall of society.

Unfortunately, that's almost always the case. :lol: (There has been the odd natural disaster, disease, etc)

 

[JimboJones123]

Unfortunately, that's almost always the case. :lol: (There has been the odd natural disaster, disease, etc)

Just for once when things start looking to get things right -- they always manage to trip over their own feet -- oh, and this is not an invitation to talk about current world happenings. I just find it funny that throughout history that when a society thinks it has things right -- Majority uprises and we re-rack again. The human race should just be concidered a chalk board. Ah -- SSE flashbacks --

 

[juan]

I still don't see why people are upset at WDW

Disney.com, which had the wrong date that most people followed, is run by the Disney Internet Group, a separate entity from WDW. WDWCo has known for a while and knows exactly when it will open and have already planned accordingly.

If you have a gripe, take it up with Disney Internet Group. It is not WDWCo's fault that Disney.com did not update their site. WDWCo planned and updated their resources and made it known that the ride wouldn't be opening til later (Times Guides, sign out front, etc)
And as far as WDWCo knew, they thought the guests knew the ride wouldn't be open so they never saw a need to place a CM at the entrance.



Think of it this way. Best Buy.com's main overall site says they are now selling a new video game. But when you go to an individual store they didn't get the shipment in. The store knows they weren't getting the shipment until the next day, but you are now blaming that individual store for not updating Best Buy's main site which is not under their control.
Don't blame the store, blame the overall site.

 

[mousermerf]

I still don't see why people are upset at WDW

Disney.com, which had the wrong date that most people followed, is run by the Disney Internet Group, a separate entity from WDW. WDWCo has known for a while and knows exactly when it will open and have already planned accordingly.

If you have a gripe, take it up with Disney Internet Group. It is not WDWCo's fault that Disney.com did not update their site. WDWCo planned and updated their resources and made it known that the ride wouldn't be opening til later (Times Guides, sign out front, etc)
And as far as WDWCo knew, they thought the guests knew the ride wouldn't be open so they never saw a need to place a CM at the entrance.

However, WDW has known that the website which is a point of first guest contact is inadequate, and like it or not, it's all "WDW" to people. You can't seperate the two. If i had people who represented me who were constantly wrong and did nothing to remedy the problem, then i'd be part of the problem.

A big part of how WDW pulls of it's magic is because no one is exempt from responsibility. Atleast that's how it's supposed to work.

 

[EpcotServo]

Think of it this way. Best Buy.com's main overall site says they are now selling a new video game. But when you go to an individual store they didn't get the shipment in. The store knows they weren't getting the shipment until the next day, but you are now blaming that individual store for not updating Best Buy's main site which is not under their control.
Don't blame the store, blame the overall site.

Nope, I blame em' both. Best Buy always manages to get everything wrong on shipment dates like that.

 

[jmvd20]

And about housing and other construction having delays. My experience is in theater, scenic design, etc. Opening day is opening day. If you delay your opening, you're seen as a complete failure by those who work in the industry with you. So it's a different mentality then "oh well, within 2 weeks is ok" and moreso the heck-or-highwater situation. You're judged by how well you pull it off. The Figment ride-through where nothing worked told me that Imagineering had someone in there that didn't know what they were doing.

When we are talking construction projects and theater performances were talking 2 different things. As I said earlier give me the funds and I will get a project done on time but it'll cost you. In theater when you are opening on day X you can't delay or you lose money, therefore the managers are generally given the go ahead to do what it takes. On the other hand it is vey rare that I ever get the go ahead to spend more money or judt do what it takes. I normally get the "Do it in half the time we originally thought for 75% of the cost while still maintaining the highest quality possible."

As far as being judged in the industry - as a project manager I will basically be fired if I do not meet my deadlines consistently. If I don't meet them I had better advise the customers ahead of time and have a darn good reason for it.

 

[jmvd20]

Exactly. I am involved with everything from 1500 square foot track homes to multi-million dollar commercial and single family structures. Even with the little track homes that have been built dozens of times things go wrong that can add anywhere from days to months to a project.

Give me the big commercial ones any day. So many less headaches....

I just can't stand the whiny homeowner who can't pick out a $10.00 toilet paper holder and it throws the entire schedule out the door.

 

[mousermerf]

When we are talking construction projects and theater performances were talking 2 different things. As I said earlier give me the funds and I will get a project done on time but it'll cost you. In theater when you are opening on day X you can't delay or you lose money, therefore the managers are generally given the go ahead to do what it takes. On the other hand it is vey rare that I ever get the go ahead to spend more money or judt do what it takes. I normally get the "Do it in half the time we originally thought for 75% of the cost while still maintaining the highest quality possible."

As far as being judged in the industry - as a project manager I will basically be fired if I do not meet my deadlines consistently. If I don't meet them I had better advise the customers ahead of time and have a darn good reason for it.

Disney rides are like theater though. I have no reason to goto Epcot for a few days, wont spend any money, and they've lost goodwill from myself and others. That's a loss of profits. Happy people buy stuff.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Disney rides are like theater though. I have no reason to goto Epcot for a few days, wont spend any money, and they've lost goodwill from myself and others. That's a loss of profits. Happy people buy stuff.

I think WDW will do just fine this week without you, though...the parks are PACKED. Happy people spend money. Spring Breakers who get to wait in shorter lines will spend more time not in line, spending money because they are happy that lines are one person shorter at Epcot.

 

[Master Yoda]

Give me the big commercial ones any day. So many less headaches....

I just can't stand the whiny homeowner who can't pick out a $10.00 toilet paper holder and it throws the entire schedule out the door.

I am just the opposite. I absolutely hate commercial work. The plans in general take ambiguity to an art form which in my line of work, engineered trusses, is a very bad thing. There is nothing like looking for a custom heel height, starting on page A1.1.1 then being referred to detail A/A2.1.1 which refers to detail B/A2.2.6 which refers to detail E/A4.2.9 which of course is has 50 dimensions on it, none of which are relevant to anything.:brick:

 

[Vernonpush]

When we are talking construction projects and theater performances were talking 2 different things. As I said earlier give me the funds and I will get a project done on time but it'll cost you. In theater when you are opening on day X you can't delay or you lose money, therefore the managers are generally given the go ahead to do what it takes. On the other hand it is vey rare that I ever get the go ahead to spend more money or judt do what it takes. I normally get the "Do it in half the time we originally thought for 75% of the cost while still maintaining the highest quality possible."

As far as being judged in the industry - as a project manager I will basically be fired if I do not meet my deadlines consistently. If I don't meet them I had better advise the customers ahead of time and have a darn good reason for it.

I've worked in theatre for over 30 years. It's usually "We've moved opening up 3 days. You've got 2 days to finnish instead of 5. You can't spend any more money, we didn't sell enough tickets to the last show. One of the four of you is taking their vacation time to go to thier brother's wedding. You get no overtime pay. Oh, and the sightlines are bad, can you add some more scenery over here. When you've got a minute, there is a light bulb out in the lobby and the toilet in the men's room is leaking." :lol: