No fastpasses available today?

[asianway]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you still can ride those attractions without a Fastpass. They haven't gotten rid of standby lines yet.

If you hold these two rides so dear that it ruins your trip if you don't get to experience them, then surely they are worth waiting in line for.

Yet. Apparently Meet n Greets will lose the standby option first if rumors are to believed.

 

[NearTheEars]

Yet. Apparently Meet n Greets will lose the standby option first if rumors are to believed.

Wouldn't that make the FP+ line just a reserved standby line then? Lol

 

[donsullivan]

Funny because the argument you get from a lot of people is the FP line slows down the standby line considerably.

Anyone who thinks rationally about this can come away with only one simple conclusion.

If you have 2 attractions of equal hourly capacity and one has FP and the other does not, the standby line for the one without FP will move faster. That doesn't have anything to do with the length of the line, that is determined by the popularity of the attraction and the wait time tolerance of guests who desire to experience it.

Very simply, the equal capacity attraction without FP will load more people per hour from the SB line making that line move faster. The equal capacity attraction with FP will have some sort of a ratio between FP and SB guests meaning that fewer SB guests will be boarded per hour making that wait per 100 people in line longer.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Funny because the argument you get from a lot of people is the FP line slows down the standby line considerably.

That's because it does. It's not even debatable.

 

[pmaljr]

You know, It's kind of ironic how this is going down, being the land of the mouse and all, with it almost being a case of them playing a game of "Who moved my cheese?" with their potential/former customers. The mice are stuck in the maze and not sure what the new, optimal path is. So, they are in a panic, a frenzy. People are going to have to figure out what the new path in the maze is. People will panic and never try it, try it once and get stuck in a corner, or keep trying until they figure out the best path, just like the mice. However, the problem is we're dealing with real money here, people's vacations, and people wondering if they are still going to have a relaxing/fun vacation that they are used to having. So, the cause for concern is valid. I think that if Disney would officially publish the rules on how all this is going to work, once and for all, that it would alleviate some of the concerns or at least confirm the concerns. Then, people would know the rules, learn how to "beat the system" once again so that they can get back to feeling like they are smarter than everyone else, and then everything will be right again in the land of the mouse. We're trying it out the week of 11/9-11/17 and we'll see if we get stuck in a corner or not.

 

[Bairstow]

You know, It's kind of ironic how this is going down, being the land of the mouse and all, with it almost being a case of them playing a game of "Who moved my cheese?" with their potential/former customers. The mice are stuck in the maze and not sure what the new, optimal path is. So, they are in a panic, a frenzy. People are going to have to figure out what the new path in the maze is. People will panic and never try it, try it once and get stuck in a corner, or keep trying until they figure out the best path, just like the mice. However, the problem is we're dealing with real money here, people's vacations, and people wondering if they are still going to have a relaxing/fun vacation that they are used to having. So, the cause for concern is valid. I think that if Disney would officially publish the rules on how all this is going to work, once and for all, that it would alleviate some of the concerns or at least confirm the concerns. Then, people would know the rules, learn how to "beat the system" once again so that they can get back to feeling like they are smarter than everyone else, and then everything will be right again in the land of the mouse. We're trying it out the week of 11/9-11/17 and we'll see if we get stuck in a corner or not.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
One of the main goals of entire My Disney Experience is to put first-timers who are willing to spend a minute or two with the system on equal footing with the park veterans, who had already figured out the best places to eat, best times to get fastpasses, best places to watch the fireworks and so forth.

A lot of the hostility to the changes comes because people sense that their particular Disney World knowledge will no longer give them an advantage over first-time families.

 

[donsullivan]

You know, It's kind of ironic how this is going down, being the land of the mouse and all, with it almost being a case of them playing a game of "Who moved my cheese?" with their potential/former customers. The mice are stuck in the maze and not sure what the new, optimal path is. So, they are in a panic, a frenzy. People are going to have to figure out what the new path in the maze is. People will panic and never try it, try it once and get stuck in a corner, or keep trying until they figure out the best path, just like the mice. However, the problem is we're dealing with real money here, people's vacations, and people wondering if they are still going to have a relaxing/fun vacation that they are used to having. So, the cause for concern is valid. I think that if Disney would officially publish the rules on how all this is going to work, once and for all, that it would alleviate some of the concerns or at least confirm the concerns. Then, people would know the rules, learn how to "beat the system" once again so that they can get back to feeling like they are smarter than everyone else, and then everything will be right again in the land of the mouse. We're trying it out the week of 11/9-11/17 and we'll see if we get stuck in a corner or not.

I think you have hit on one of the key issues that it out there right now. For those guest profiles for whom the FP+ program is not available (AP's and day guests), Disney has offered no information about any potential eligibility or timing.

That lack of information has created a vacuum which is one of those things the Internet hates the most. The lack of actual data about what's happening is prompting many to speculate and when that happens, the conclusions will nearly always lean toward the negative.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
A lot of the hostility to the changes comes because people sense that their particular Disney World knowledge will no longer give them an advantage over first-time families.

100% correct. That's why FastPass is popular on Disney Fan sites even though it does not (can not) increase capacity; it lets certain people (in certain circumstances) beat the system at the expense of others. The system has now been changed; they don't know how to beat it immediately and they are uncertain if it is even possible to exploit to their advantage (this second concern is foolish - every set of rules is exploitable, just look at the disability cards).

 

[ford91exploder]

I think you have hit on one of the key issues that it out there right now. For those guest profiles for whom the FP+ program is not available (AP's and day guests), Disney has offered no information about any potential eligibility or timing.

That lack of information has created a vacuum which is one of those things the Internet hates the most. The lack of actual data about what's happening is prompting many to speculate and when that happens, the conclusions will nearly always lean toward the negative.

Personally, Family is not a FP commando family we use them if available perhaps to ride a favorite more than once say once in Standby and once using FP, Key issue is FP- has reduced overall ride capacity to far below ride mechanism capacity.

I'm not going to wait in Standby for 30-60 minutes to ride 'It's a Small World' and that is where the FP- system has taken us, We have premier passports and are locked out of the FP+ even while resort guests, Did i mention we are DVC. I'm certainly not going to wait 2-3 Hours for TSMM an hour maybe 1.5 Hours during peak times but no longer.

From MY point of view Disney has significantly devalued our vacation experience and as customers who purchased Disneys MOST expensive ticket media and lodging we are very unhappy campers.

 

[draybook]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
One of the main goals of entire My Disney Experience is to put first-timers who are willing to spend a minute or two with the system on equal footing with the park veterans, who had already figured out the best places to eat, best times to get fastpasses, best places to watch the fireworks and so forth.

A lot of the hostility to the changes comes because people sense that their particular Disney World knowledge will no longer give them an advantage over first-time families.

Or in my case it comes from putting us through a figurative accordion in the Haunted Mansion queue and then making us wait 20 minutes for a ride that last year had a 5 minutes wait. All so we can look to our right and see the empty FP- line taking up precious real estate that would have previously let us bypass those who choose to take advantage of the interactive part, which was also forced on us......

Or the way that FP- took up another queue line at Pirates and turned it from a 5 minute wait last September to a 20-45 minute wait this September. Again, all so we could look to our right and see an empty line that once let us enjoy this fantastic attraction in a timely manner.

Or the way that FP- is going to most likely clog up the Imagination line due to the fact that it will be the only attraction with available FPs since the system let the other attractions get booked 4 years in advance.

 

[flynnibus]

We care because rides which we KNOW at this time of year were 'walk-on' ITSW, PoTC, HM, SSE now routinely have standby times of 30M+, TSMM which had waits of 90 Min in Mid-JUNE now routinely exceeds 100 Minutes wait. We have some rides which are exceeding NYE standby waits and that is the most crowded time at ALL the Disney parks. This is what we KNOW.

We also 'know' the wait times are only higher if there are actual people getting on the ride in front of you. You can't increase the wait times everywhere without actual bodies. So either the bodies are all concentrated in the same places.. or there are a lot more bodies than you think there are.

Now we don't know the exact gate numbers but we do know they will be significantly lower than in mid June. And if FP- has this kind of effect during a slower period - its going to be Parkmageddon during the upcoming holiday season.

It's F&W dude.. and leading into holloween. It's not the dead time people think it is anymore.

Traditionally I don't pull a lot of FP's because there are always the B-C rides which are generally pleasant and relaxing even if they do install a song in head which cannot be removed for 72 hours - I'm looking at you Small World/CoP/Imagination

But if Small World has a 30-45 minute wait and it's the shortest wait there, Well i'm heading back to the barn to read or swim I'm not hanging around the park because there is no merchandise I want to buy.

Again.. you can't make all the lines longer without bodies. So the theory that everything is longer and lower crowds at the same time does not compute. FP/FP+ doesn't change that. A FP+ can't be on two rides at once... yes they are getting more rides in per hour when they are enabled.. but they are limited to ~3.

So the main impact will be how many FPs disney actually makes available - a variable that will be manipulated constantly. But giving out 100,000 or 10.. your wait is always going to be based on people getting on the ride. And adding or subtracting FPs doesn't change how many bodies are in seats.

 

[ford91exploder]

We also 'know' the wait times are only higher if there are actual people getting on the ride in front of you. You can't increase the wait times everywhere without actual bodies. So either the bodies are all concentrated in the same places.. or there are a lot more bodies than you think there are.



It's F&W dude.. and leading into holloween. It's not the dead time people think it is anymore.



Again.. you can't make all the lines longer without bodies. So the theory that everything is longer and lower crowds at the same time does not compute. FP/FP+ doesn't change that. A FP+ can't be on two rides at once... yes they are getting more rides in per hour when they are enabled.. but they are limited to ~3.

So the main impact will be how many FPs disney actually makes available - a variable that will be manipulated constantly. But giving out 100,000 or 10.. your wait is always going to be based on people getting on the ride. And adding or subtracting FPs doesn't change how many bodies are in seats.

Gee - It was F&W and Going into Halloween LAST year and PoTC was Walk on NOT 45 minutes, FAIL

 

[awoogala]

Disney has always had a spend more, get more program. There are no moderate or value resorts on the monorail loop, only one moderate with boat transportation and that is to DTD, no full-service dining at values, only sub-par full service dining at moderates, etc.

Free dining offers are much better at moderates and Deluxe resorts when offered.

I could go on and on.

considering when we stayed on the monorail it was slower than busses at the values, yes...lol

 

[flynnibus]

Gee - It was F&W and Going into Halloween LAST year and PoTC was Walk on NOT 45 minutes, FAIL

Well figure out where those extra bodies came from and you'll be onto something. Until then.. you're just flailing around.

Anyone think about what capacity the attractions are running at or cycling at before they threw the gauntlet down on what they KNOW to be the problem?

 

[ford91exploder]

Well figure out where those extra bodies came from and you'll be onto something. Until then.. you're just flailing around.

Anyone think about what capacity the attractions are running at or cycling at before they threw the gauntlet down on what they KNOW to be the problem?

What I suggest is that you gather some DATA, Go to the park and look at wait times, Then pick out a point in a crowd and see how long it takes the line to move. Time a dozen MickeyHead scans, See how many Standby riders pass a given point in a queue in 15 minutes. It's called Research and beats speculation like a drum.

What Disney is ALSO doing is holding the Standby line so the FP+ riders can go ahead so the RATIO of FP to Standby is what TDO Operations expects it to be otherwise the CM's get abused by TDO. There are empty ride vehicles because of this and this is why you are hearing stories of EMPTY FP- lines with immobile Standby lines.

 

[OswaldTheRabbit]

I certainly agree with you on this. I will point out, however, that the new system, while hurting superusers like yourself considerably, would help to even things out between guests and theoretically be more "fair" in terms of FP usage. If everyone is maxing out at 3 FP in a day, then that prevents the situation of a superuser getting a lot while others get few or none. Furthermore, if Disney advertises the FP+ well with new guests, it might be the case that people who would otherwise not realize FP exists and not use it might do so now. The end result could easily be a more even distributions where most everyone is using 3 FP instead of some using 8-10 in a day and others using 1 or none.

I tend to use FP frequently/efficiently as well, so the limit of passes to 3 in a day worries me as well. But I am looking forward to not having to cross the parks to get FP, which (as the runner of the group) was kinda annoying and wasted some time (not a ton, but I'd rather be with my family).

But the issue I have is I May be a super user (not always) but everyone can do what I do. In the case of the FP+ only people on site can get the 3 therefore the playing field is more uneven than if someone if just a planner.

I do like that we can pre-choose 3 but I just really wish that paper FP would still be available for those rides that aren't covered like the no wait ones that maybe you want to plan for the evening.

Sigh.... I just get a feeling that this is a bad decision for them and people may be really turned off by it.

 

[awoogala]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
One of the main goals of entire My Disney Experience is to put first-timers who are willing to spend a minute or two with the system on equal footing with the park veterans, who had already figured out the best places to eat, best times to get fastpasses, best places to watch the fireworks and so forth.

A lot of the hostility to the changes comes because people sense that their particular Disney World knowledge will no longer give them an advantage over first-time families.

It's also a sense of betrayal and honesty. I booked a trip in November. I've not been to UNI in 25 years. They made it clear, I stay at their hotel- fotl.. I pay for privilege- fotl. Honest. I booked a hotel. done and done. (also better priced, and a better hotel, review wise)
Disney is screwing me every which way, lying, or hiding the truth =NO one really knows where or how the logorithms work out. So now I am going to possibly have a terrible vacation, in an off-season, without ever knowing what the he*( is actually going on. They have treated us as if we are morons, and I am angry.
I hate a lack of full disclosure. I want it in writing, clearly spelled out. They are selling us crap in a bow "roll-outs" and "special testing" and screwing anyone who is not their favorites. Lovely...In a year or two, it will all be "worked out" but those of us spending thousands in the next few months are going to be )D.

 

[ford91exploder]

It's also a sense of betrayal and honesty. I booked a trip in November. I've not been to UNI in 25 years. They made it clear, I stay at their hotel- fotl.. I pay for privilege- fotl. Honest. I booked a hotel. done and done. (also better priced, and a better hotel, review wise)
Disney is screwing me every which way, lying, or hiding the truth =NO one really knows where or how the logorithms work out. So now I am going to possibly have a terrible vacation, in an off-season, without ever knowing what the he*( is actually going on. They have treated us as if we are morons, and I am angry.
I hate a lack of full disclosure. I want it in writing, clearly spelled out. They are selling us crap in a bow "roll-outs" and "special testing" and screwing anyone who is not their favorites. Lovely...In a year or two, it will all be "worked out" but those of us spending thousands in the next few months are going to be )D.

More and more I get the feeling that NGE is an elaborate Kabuki theater act to fool Wall St into thinking that Disney P&R is experiencing actual GROWTH, As the examples there are longer lines and the hotels are 'full' even though many of the hotels have more than half the rooms 'out of service' ESPECIALLY the DVC resorts so many DVC members are UNABLE to make reservations.

Disney has become untrustworthy to say the least

 

[flynnibus]

What Disney is ALSO doing is holding the Standby line so the FP+ riders can go ahead so the RATIO of FP to Standby is what TDO Operations expects it to be otherwise the CM's get abused by TDO. There are empty ride vehicles because of this and this is why you are hearing stories of EMPTY FP- lines with immobile Standby lines.

I call BS on this.. and so does Bill who I trust far more than you.

And as for 'data' - anyone who calls themselves an engineer knows there is more to conclusions than observing an outcome.

 

[disney4life2008]

Out of curiosity - how will FP+ effect sites like Touring Plans?