No expiration tickets - - - -what happened.

[OsbourneCox]

Yes... but the point being... you know what the expiration date is and the grocery store isnt at fault because you failed to use

So now the "point" is about disclosures and adhering to them??

I'm not buying into that as the main point at hand. The biggest issue for me is:
Is cancelling the old policy ethical, equitable and in the best interest for all involved: consumer and seller.

 

[Po'Rich]

Yes... but the point being... you know what the expiration date is and the grocery store isnt at fault because you failed to use it before it expired and they arent looked at as being greedy for keeping the money you paid for something you didnt use up.

Okay, the expiration date on food is a false analogy...and that has been already addressed. The food doesn't expire because there is a date; it has a date as a warning to consumers of a natural expiration of biological material (Twinkies, for example, don't have expiration dates).

Whether or not Disney is being "greedy" or not is a bit of a strawman argument. Not all of those who are opposed to the expiration dates are basing their arguments on corporate greed. My comment early in this thread is not based on corporate greed. Corporations are greedy...this is a fundamental aspect of capitalism. My comment was pointing out a change in emphasis for Disney. By eliminating non-expiring tickets and also requiring tickets to be used in the year that they were bought, Disney is potentially hurting long-term loyalty to reap short-term profits.

It is possible that this change occurred because of abuse (people selling unused ticket), but there's other ways to address that abuse (such as requiring the ticket to be assigned to an individual, which they also do. However, look at Debbie's post. Non-expiring tickets caused her to go to WDW more often than she probably would have otherwise. I'm also fairly certain that when she came, she spent money in the parks.

My point is simply this: non-expiring tickets encourage people to return. With ticket expiration dates, people are more likely to buy just the number of days they are sure to need. When the trip is over, there is nothing (except the enjoyment of the experience) to lure them back for another trip. With the exception of DVC (which is a huge commitment for many families) and with the ever-increasing price of the parks, WDW promotes itself more and more as a single-visit vacation.

Of course, WDW isn't hurting for guests. However, if there ever comes a time where Disney wants to encourage more return visits, looking at policies such as ticket expiration dates would be a good place to start.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Okay, the expiration date on food is a false analogy...and that has been already addressed. The food doesn't expire because there is a date; it has a date as a warning to consumers of a natural expiration of biological material (Twinkies, for example, don't have expiration dates).

Whether or not Disney is being "greedy" or not is a bit of a strawman argument. Not all of those who are opposed to the expiration dates are basing their arguments on corporate greed. My comment early in this thread is not based on corporate greed. Corporations are greedy...this is a fundamental aspect of capitalism. My comment was pointing out a change in emphasis for Disney. By eliminating non-expiring tickets and also requiring tickets to be used in the year that they were bought, Disney is potentially hurting long-term loyalty to reap short-term profits.

It is possible that this change occurred because of abuse (people selling unused ticket), but there's other ways to address that abuse (such as requiring the ticket to be assigned to an individual, which they also do. However, look at Debbie's post. Non-expiring tickets caused her to go to WDW more often than she probably would have otherwise. I'm also fairly certain that when she came, she spent money in the parks.

My point is simply this: non-expiring tickets encourage people to return. With ticket expiration dates, people are more likely to buy just the number of days they are sure to need. When the trip is over, there is nothing (except the enjoyment of the experience) to lure them back for another trip. With the exception of DVC (which is a huge commitment for many families) and with the ever-increasing price of the parks, WDW promotes itself more and more as a single-visit vacation.

Of course, WDW isn't hurting for guests. However, if there ever comes a time where Disney wants to encourage more return visits, looking at policies such as ticket expiration dates would be a good place to start.

I agree with you... very short range planning on their part as far as encouraging people to return and spend more money. Granted, if everyone was like me I could understand their concern. I buy the tickets, stay offsite and eat mostly offsite with the exception of lunch at a quick service. So not much to be gained, but, that's just me. I'm sure that others will stay onsite, eat their meals there and because they cannot get a package will never qualify for a dining plan. It seems foolish to pass that up, since just my showing up really doesn't significantly affect their costs on that day.

Even I don't look at it as greedy... on the surface it seems like a solid decision. It's when you think about it from the consumers viewpoint that it starts to leak a little water.

 

[POLY LOVER]

I really don't like your analogy.
Those food products have a very real life span where they truly ruin or degrade. And once they expire they have no intrinsic value left.

Conversely, Disney park expirations are completely arbitrary-- for the sake of this exercise--- parks don't degrade or spoil (obviously) if unused. Thus, the parks retain their intrinsic value irrespective of buyer use or not.

The food if unused becomes a tangible loss of product/service
With unused days there is no tangible loss of product/service

I agree with you post but here is another view. Think of it like use it or lose it. Employers now do this with your vacation time. If you don't use it in a specified time you lose it. Why because you earn time at this year's cost, next year you usually earn more and that day off now increase in value and company cost. Disney sold you a ticket say for 80.00 in 2010 now in 2017 it's worth 125.00. They look at it as a loss. There are things like gift cards that begin to lose their value after a period of time. Disney is just jumping on the incredible shrinking package scam of sorts.

 

[OsbourneCox]

Disney sold you a ticket say for 80.00 in 2010 now in 2017 it's worth 125.00.

I see it as a "wash"
Disney got paid well ahead of time before delivering the service/product............time value of money and all that so to speak.

Disney did not take a loss(it looks like you are the second one on this topic to bring this up) because money yesterday vs today vs tomorrow factors greatly in this analysis as you demonstrated with that price hypothetical.

 

[POLY LOVER]

I see it as a "wash"
Disney got paid well ahead of time before delivering the service/product............time value of money and all that so to speak.

Disney did not take a loss(it looks like you are the second one on this topic to bring this up) because money yesterday vs today vs tomorrow factors greatly in this analysis as you demonstrated with that price hypothetical.

I know we can factor variables in but I know this first hand from an employer standpoint. I was involved with a discussion like this and that what's in the mind of the employer. Right or wrong they want the obligation off their books as soon as possible. I personally took advantage of the no expiration when it was available, I also liked that the tickets were good at any park. I actually used my no expiration ticket in Florida then California during my honeymoon. I thought that was cool to be able to do. These are or were the little special things about Disney that are going away one by one. I hate corporate coldness about the numbers. I'm sure now that they have their taxes cut it will all be coming back to us customers.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree with you post but here is another view. Think of it like use it or lose it. Employers now do this with your vacation time. If you don't use it in a specified time you lose it. Why because you earn time at this year's cost, next year you usually earn more and that day off now increase in value and company cost. Disney sold you a ticket say for 80.00 in 2010 now in 2017 it's worth 125.00. They look at it as a loss. There are things like gift cards that begin to lose their value after a period of time. Disney is just jumping on the incredible shrinking package scam of sorts.

That's kinda the reason for the use it or lose it vacation scenario, but, it is more to prevent people from saving up their vacation in case they get laid off or leave the company on good terms of their own accord. Then the company has to pay out in large amounts of cash. I think all of us can see why that might be a problem especially if it is a small company. Also it has been shown that people need to take vacations regularly in order to maintain a better productivity rate and moral. But, that is really a secondary reason that companies insist.

Since most of the days left at Disney are based on a smaller amount that might be an incentive, but, I personally never looked at it that way. To me if I bought a 10 day ticket for $600.00 that was $60.00 per day... which is plenty considering that all the expenses that Disney will have will be there whether those guests are there or not. On top of that, they get to take our money well before we ever use the services they provide. They invest and have a return from that paid ahead money. The downside is that they have to carry it on the books as a liability until you use the ticket, but, that is just another fancy word that accountants use to make you think that they are getting hurt by it. They aren't!

 

[larryz]

I realize its easy to sit back and criticize Disney for being money hungry....but in this case, it was a decision made to help protect unwitting consumers from getting cheated.

I suppose that explains why their food and beverage prices have increased so much -- to protect us from spending money on those bogus pizzas they warn people about in their resorts...

 

[21stamps]

I just used the last of my non expiring tickets 2 weeks ago.. it was the last one of about 20 avg of 3 day hopppers.. 60 days of admission.

My parents took us to Disney annually.. they’d always buy extra tickets every year, to save indefinitely. They did this well after I was an adult and not even going on the family trips anymore.
So anyway, they gifted myself and my 2 siblings with that amount of tickets once we were adults. I used them for myself, to bring friends, as well as bring my niece and nephew before I had my own child.. actually ran out of all but that last one quite a few years ago. Held on to it, and finally had an occasion to use it.

While I wish I could do the same for my son, I completely understand why Disney would not be fan of people stocking up on tickets to use 5-10-15-20 years later.

 

[NickMaio]

Thats business... it was a great deal for your families while it lasted, but for Disney, over time it was a money losing enterprise.

Did it really? - I disagree - With our no expiration tickets this guaranteed Disney that we would return to use them, in turn, stay on property, buy food, buy gifts and eventually purchase more tickets.
We have gone every year for 11 years in a row - this summer we took a break because of this lack of tickets among other things forced us to re-evaluate our vacation plans.

It made us ask a question - who does Disney value more - paying guests or shareholders? -

 

[NickMaio]

If I buy a carton of milk or a package of meat and let it spoil because I didnt use it before the expiration date... are you saying the grocery store is at fault and they dont deserve the money I paid for the items I didnt get to use? -
This is not a valid comparison - Disney USED to sell no expiration but removed it to increase so-called revenue - - - milk was never a no-expiration product???

 

[donsullivan]

Thats business... it was a great deal for your families while it lasted, but for Disney, over time it was a money losing enterprise.

Did it really? - I disagree - With our no expiration tickets this guaranteed Disney that we would return to use them, in turn, stay on property, buy food, buy gifts and eventually purchase more tickets.
We have gone every year for 11 years in a row - this summer we took a break because of this lack of tickets among other things forced us to re-evaluate our vacation plans.

It made us ask a question - who does Disney value more - paying guests or shareholders? -

While it may have 'guaranteed' that you personally would return each year, that is not universally the case. Large numbers of those tickets are lost or people chose to never return again so the unused value of the ticket is never redeemed.

 

[NickMaio]

Even if people never returned - - - this is still a win-win for Disney. They sold a ticket with out ever providing a service.
Case in point - - - - We did not go back to Disney to spend another couple of thousand dollars and are really questioning if we ever will. as well as many other families we have spoken to in our local Disney world park hopper circles - - - - - we have a lot of friends who vacation there as well.

As a customer you want to feel that your business - hard earned money - is appreciated. Today we are seriously questioning this from Disney. This was not always the case - A Disney vacation always left of feeling positive, valued and special. This is why we kept going back.
As many have already pointed out - this feeling is really starting to loose its luster.

-

 

[Chef Mickey]

A no expire ticket doesn't make much business sense. Disney did the right thing.

I use an annual pass as my pseudo "no expire" tickets. At least they don't expire for a full year.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Even if people never returned - - - this is still a win-win for Disney. They sold a ticket with out ever providing a service.
Case in point - - - - We did not go back to Disney to spend another couple of thousand dollars and are really questioning if we ever will. as well as many other families we have spoken to in our local Disney world park hopper circles - - - - - we have a lot of friends who vacation there as well.

As a customer you want to feel that your business - hard earned money - is appreciated. Today we are seriously questioning this from Disney. This was not always the case - A Disney vacation always left of feeling positive, valued and special. This is why we kept going back.
As many have already pointed out - this feeling is really starting to loose its luster.

-

Disney can't even turn the lights on for the cost of your ticket. Truthfully, they need you to stay in the resorts, eat the food, and buy the merchandise for it to make sense.

They actually would rather you buy the tickets and come than buy the tickets and never come.

 

[nolatron]

My point is simply this: non-expiring tickets encourage people to return. With ticket expiration dates, people are more likely to buy just the number of days they are sure to need. When the trip is over, there is nothing (except the enjoyment of the experience) to lure them back for another trip.

I remember back in 1999 or 2000, DW and I planned a trip to Orlando to do Universal and Sea World and skip Disney for once *gasp*. Prior to leaving I found we still had 2 paper stamped tickets from our trip about 1-2 years prior that still had 1 day left on them. We ended up adding a Disney day to the trip cause of those non-expiring tickets.

 

[Chef Mickey]

So now like you said, new people are not getting scammed (buyer beware), however, you get to pay for a ticket that you don't use completely and Disney gets to keep the money you paid. How generous of them. Now I don't think that they should be forced to hold that liability over their heads forever, lets just not make sound like it was done to strictly benefit the bargain hunter from being scammed. Disney is a lot of things... saintly ain't one of them.

Why would you buy a ticket and not use it completely? That sounds like user error, not Disney error or Disney greed.

If I buy a plane ticket and can't use it, the airline doesn't give me a rain check. So many things are like this, particularly in travel.

No expire is such a simple concept. Parks change and park offerings change. If they give you a no expire option today and let you come back in 10 years for no cost, you're getting a completely different experience than what you originally paid for when you bought the ticket. They want you to buy the ticket at the price they determine more recent to the time it was sold...How is this anything but basic?

It actually was generous and dumb they ever had a no expire option.

 

[21stamps]

Why would you buy a ticket and not use it completely? That sounds like user error, not Disney error or Disney greed.

If I buy a plane ticket and can't use it, the airline doesn't give me a rain check. So many things are like this, particularly in travel.

No expire is such a simple concept. Parks change and park offerings change. If they give you a no expire option today and let you come back in 10 years for no cost, you're getting a completely different experience than what you originally paid for when you bought the ticket. They want you to buy the ticket at the price they determine more recent to the time it was sold...How is this anything but basic?

It actually was generous and dumb they ever had a no expire option.

For my recent example.. my remaining one day hopper was used during a “Peak” day.. the Value was @ $185.
That ticket was purchased sometime in the 80s, 90s or early -mid 2000s. No matter which decade it was from, I’m sure that the original price was a fraction of the 2017 price.

As I said, this is why my parents purchased so many over the years. I don’t believe that they are the only people to have the foresight and frugalness ( ?) to do so. I’m thinking they are just one of several thousands, if not more, who did so over the span of so many years.

At some point it’s no longer going to be as beneficial to Disney as just having people purchase the tickets today. It might prevent some people from being able to visit.. but obviously they aren’t hurting in that department.

It was nice while it lasted but it was a smart business decision to end it.

 

[networkpro]

I see it as a "wash"
Disney got paid well ahead of time before delivering the service/product............time value of money and all that so to speak.

Disney did not take a loss(it looks like you are the second one on this topic to bring this up) because money yesterday vs today vs tomorrow factors greatly in this analysis as you demonstrated with that price hypothetical.

Ever take accounting ? No expiration tickets are unstated liabilities on the balance sheet. Not something any bean counter wants to see.

 

[donsullivan]

Ever take accounting ? No expiration tickets are unstated liabilities on the balance sheet. Not something any bean counter wants to see.

This is the part that so many people are losing in this dialog. Disney cannot record those ticket sales as revenue until they are actually redeemed at the turnstile for admission. The accounting rules have changed over the years, which makes it really messy and expensive for them to keep doing this so they stopped