New Tomorrowland?

meeko_33785

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by grizzlyhall
As for characters, it's popularity vs. substance.

Buzz Lightyear is an AMAZING ride...but compared to Dreamflight, it has no "essence" of Tomorrow...it doesn't educate or inspire about the future. It's about... hitting Z's.

Don't get me wrong...I always love to enjoy the Spaceranger Spin (when it's clean :lol: ) - but as for Disney foundational value. . .

Must everything at WDW educate and inspire? Is it so wrong to have attractions that are just plain fun? Look at the Mad Tea Party, Tiki Room, Haunted Mansion... these are all pure entertainment and that's not a bad thing. I think it's wonderful to have inspirational attractions, but I think that there is no reason that an attraction should be looked down on because it doesn't educate. I don't know about your Disney, but my Disney's fundamental value is to provide a place where everyone can have fun in a clean, safe, and magical environment. If you learn something, that's additional.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Originally posted by meeko_33785
Must everything at WDW educate and inspire? Is it so wrong to have attractions that are just plain fun? Look at the Mad Tea Party, Tiki Room, Haunted Mansion... these are all pure entertainment and that's not a bad thing. I think it's wonderful to have inspirational attractions, but I think that there is no reason that an attraction should be looked down on because it doesn't educate. I don't know about your Disney, but my Disney's fundamental value is to provide a place where everyone can have fun in a clean, safe, and magical environment. If you learn something, that's additional.

I agree. However, keep in mind that Tomorrowland is about . . . the future. Yes, Space travel is one aspect (Space Mountain) . . . but there are other aspects also (i.e. Flight, family life, etc)...these were seen in Dreamflight and Carousel of Progress.

Buzz Lightyear...has what exactly to do with Tomorrowland? The fact that it is "space" is just a weak foundation. This isn't that bad. However, it replaced one of those education-style rides, which shows a decrease of this kind of attraction.
 

meeko_33785

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by grizzlyhall
I agree. However, keep in mind that Tomorrowland is about . . . the future. Yes, Space travel is one aspect (Space Mountain) . . . but there are other aspects also (i.e. Flight, family life, etc)...these were seen in Dreamflight and Carousel of Progress.

Buzz Lightyear...has what exactly to do with Tomorrowland? The fact that it is "space" is just a weak foundation. This isn't that bad. However, it replaced one of those education-style rides, which shows a decrease of this kind of attraction.

Tomorrowland, as I have heard, is based on the Science Fiction of the 1930s. Buzz Lightyear could be argued as somewhat of a modernized Buck Rogers so it fits. As for decreased educational attractions, yes one is gone, but it's not like Disney isn't still creating new ones. Look at AK. Practically all of their attractions have educational value (Safaris, Kali, Bugs, Bird and Pocahontas shows). Even Mission: SPACE has some educational value. Losing one for a wildly popular attraction, in the long run, isn't too big of a loss.
 

NemoRocks78

Seized
I too agree Tomorrowland seems some work. The re-haul done long ago was a great thing, don't get me wrong, but what they needed the most was attractions. I say first of all make Space Mountain into DLP's version. It's by far the best one out of the 4. The Tomorrowland Indy Speedway is getting out of shape. The cars aren't futuristic looking or anything either, just a few posters slapped in gives it a 'futuristic' look. It's quite a bit of land. But it'd be sad to see it go. So here's what we do-the Aquatopia from TDS, or the new Autopia from Disneyland. Both are good attractions and would be better for the area. Then take out Carousel of Progress and put it where it belongs, in EPCOT. Then a new attraction should be in place, which also can take part of the neighboring Galaxy Place Theatre which is rarely used. Take out The Timekeeper and replace with The Flying Saucers or another attraction.
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
TomorrowLand...the section is not real bad...infact if you are going to point at a section that needs help...let me direct your attention to AdventureLand.

TomorrowLand for the time being works...but hey I'm not blind...Tomorrowland has A LOT of potential. What can be done? Well Buzz is good....CoP needs to be opened year around, and the animatronics and show updated, Timekeeper needs to be rethought, perhaps the long rumored Time Racers attraction for Epcot could go there instead (its better than having it closed for most of the year), AE is alright for NOW (I'll wait and see how it is after the Stitch debacle), TTA is still a great ride (although there is room for improvement) and then there is some land (not too much) to build another attraction...

The fact is that for now TomorrowLand is just OK. I look for Disney spending the money on Epcot and AK...and then on MK. In reality MK is the most visited Theme Park at WDW...so say Disney's motto with me now...."if it ain't broke..don't fix it".

Smart business? Only time will tell...anyways thats just my 2 cents on the whole issue.


:lookaroun :hammer:
 
Tomorrowland is in need of help as half of it seems vacant if CoP and Timekeeper are shut down. Open CoP permanantly and change the them back to the 60s/70s version of the future. I miss those purple/orange/red colors and stylized architecture! Besides with retro always happening, maybe the distant future will look like that???? :D
 

RozFan

Member
For serious, I honestly thought after seeing the design of Buzz and the use of colors that we could expect the rest of Tomorrowland to eventually flow into that style of design.

Am I the only one in thinking that? :confused:

Tomorrowland seems to be MK and DL's achilles hill.

I wish if that section of the park were to ever close for a major refurbishment that the race way either be moved into another land or go the way of the subs(R.I.P :( ).
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I saw a pretty funny poster in the Disney Art store at Epcot a few months ago. It was a tomorrowland poster and it said something like:

"The future that never was is finally here!"

I can only assume it was a promotional poster from the last rehab.
 

jimmything7

New Member
I don't know guys. In my rank the magic kingdom lands thread tomorrowland is in a very close second place. Given, only a few people have voted, but its a good 30 people that have.
 

Disneynutcase

New Member
I think half the problem of why Tomorrowland as a concept has become so weak is that most of what Imagineers come up with for attractions that could fit in Tomorrowland seem to be better fits for other parks.

Think about it.

A lot of Epcot's FutureWorld could be Tomorrowland attractions. Heck, Mission: Space is nothing more than a very sophisticated update of the old Mission To Mars, isn't it?

So when I'm reading all these suggestions for what to close, move to Epcot, or update, I'm left stumped for what to do. The Flying Saucers (if it's the ride concept I'm thinking of) is just bumper cars, isn't it?

In my humble opinion, I'm excited for the AE alteration. I think the lack of updating and alterations in Tomorrowland is what kills it. Their problem has always been three big show attractions in AE building, CoP, and the Circlevision theater. And the problem with all three is two-fold. First, by design they suck up a lot of guests which makes for mostly nice shorter waits in lines. Second, the shows become less and less exciting as you see them over and over again which creates diminished audiences, and Disney doesn't like that at all. That's why Timekeeper, fine and fun show that it is, is barely open anymore.

Then again, the sad part here is that both AE and Timekeeper aren't that old and both attractions are already begging for new shows or updates. But I say, bring 'em on!

As far as CoP goes, they could stand to redo it. The original concept was actually 1960's as the "modern" era, leaving the 1940's (or is it the '30's?) as the era preceeding it. A LOT has happened technology-wise between the '60's and now. And now the jump in time becomes almost 70 years from 2nd to last scene to last scene.

Just think about what they could do with a 70's or 80's scene with home computers. I remember my friend's family having a whole bedroom dedicated to their home computer and the thing was freakin' huge. Wouldn't that make a great joke? And what about Beta video recorders? And 8 track tapes? And Pong? There's so much to exploit that it blows my mind.

There is totally a way to redo CoP and make it equally as fun, interesting, and cutting-edge (as far as technology on display) as it was back when it debuted. And if Disney were smart they could even work some interest back into the attraction by promoting it as "not your parent's CoP."

Then again, isn't one of the problems w/ CoP something mechanical? I read somewhere a while back that the motor on the carousel was crapping out...or the bearings were shot...or something like that. Maybe it was just a rumor. But it was used to justify why it was closed so often AND why Disney was thinking of replacing it.

Overall, I think Disney needs to decide what Tomorrowland should be. If it's Jules Verne and H.G. Wells, then we need Journey To The Center Of The Earth, maybe a better time travel attraction than Timekeeper, stuff relating to old concepts of the future.

Or here's a concept...

Back before Star Tours there was an Adventure Thru Inner Space ride in TL at Disneyland. They could totally do a cool technologically advanced attraction with that one--and again create something that could thrill as well as educate.

And if they are going to go more character oriented, then commit in that direction and let's add TRON, Treasure Planet, and...er....what else?...Black Hole?

No...no...no...back in junior high when Black Hole was in theaters my friends and I used to joke "the Black Hole sucks...literally and figuratively"
 

meanmice

Member
After reading all of the posts I agree that some aspects of Tomorrowland could use some updating. As Disneynutcase seemed to be saying, it needs a theme that is present throught the land. The ground work is there for several different possibilities, but there is no consistancy. I never like saying the this should go or that should ge redone, but it is evident that there are some things that could use some updating/change.
 

mrtoad

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Disneynutcase
I think half the problem of why Tomorrowland as a concept has become so weak is that most of what Imagineers come up with for attractions that could fit in Tomorrowland seem to be better fits for other parks.

Think about it.

A lot of Epcot's FutureWorld could be Tomorrowland attractions. Heck, Mission: Space is nothing more than a very sophisticated update of the old Mission To Mars, isn't it?

So when I'm reading all these suggestions for what to close, move to Epcot, or update, I'm left stumped for what to do. The Flying Saucers (if it's the ride concept I'm thinking of) is just bumper cars, isn't it?

In my humble opinion, I'm excited for the AE alteration. I think the lack of updating and alterations in Tomorrowland is what kills it. Their problem has always been three big show attractions in AE building, CoP, and the Circlevision theater. And the problem with all three is two-fold. First, by design they suck up a lot of guests which makes for mostly nice shorter waits in lines. Second, the shows become less and less exciting as you see them over and over again which creates diminished audiences, and Disney doesn't like that at all. That's why Timekeeper, fine and fun show that it is, is barely open anymore.

Then again, the sad part here is that both AE and Timekeeper aren't that old and both attractions are already begging for new shows or updates. But I say, bring 'em on!

As far as CoP goes, they could stand to redo it. The original concept was actually 1960's as the "modern" era, leaving the 1940's (or is it the '30's?) as the era preceeding it. A LOT has happened technology-wise between the '60's and now. And now the jump in time becomes almost 70 years from 2nd to last scene to last scene.

Just think about what they could do with a 70's or 80's scene with home computers. I remember my friend's family having a whole bedroom dedicated to their home computer and the thing was freakin' huge. Wouldn't that make a great joke? And what about Beta video recorders? And 8 track tapes? And Pong? There's so much to exploit that it blows my mind.

There is totally a way to redo CoP and make it equally as fun, interesting, and cutting-edge (as far as technology on display) as it was back when it debuted. And if Disney were smart they could even work some interest back into the attraction by promoting it as "not your parent's CoP."

Then again, isn't one of the problems w/ CoP something mechanical? I read somewhere a while back that the motor on the carousel was crapping out...or the bearings were shot...or something like that. Maybe it was just a rumor. But it was used to justify why it was closed so often AND why Disney was thinking of replacing it.

Overall, I think Disney needs to decide what Tomorrowland should be. If it's Jules Verne and H.G. Wells, then we need Journey To The Center Of The Earth, maybe a better time travel attraction than Timekeeper, stuff relating to old concepts of the future.

Or here's a concept...

Back before Star Tours there was an Adventure Thru Inner Space ride in TL at Disneyland. They could totally do a cool technologically advanced attraction with that one--and again create something that could thrill as well as educate.

And if they are going to go more character oriented, then commit in that direction and let's add TRON, Treasure Planet, and...er....what else?...Black Hole?

No...no...no...back in junior high when Black Hole was in theaters my friends and I used to joke "the Black Hole sucks...literally and figuratively"

The problem with AE the future of the attraction was not thought out. It is the type of attraction where first time, it is awesome, but after that since it is an attraction that is your head vs. visual the whole time it just is not as good the 2nd time around. So they lose repeat vistors for the attraction. Unless you are taking someone new on it for the first time, it just isn't as cool as it was.

As for CoP, it does need updating. The gap as you said is too large. I love your idea of the 70s/80s. It would be very cool, but there is a big problem. The concept starts with elecricity being the big thing. If they want to still start they way (which I think they should) they they run into an issue becase there are only I think 4 sections to the whole building. You run out of room basically. Whay they should do is move the CoP to MGM. I have not seen it but I was told there was something at MGM that basically was a bigger and better version of the old "Walt Disney Story". Maybe expand and make a retro section with old attractions. You could put CoP there. (I know I am dreaming).

Anyway then build something new in Tomorrowland, maybe a regular theature with 3D or something and have the story told there from the early 1900s to now. It would still be a neat story, still give you a nice airconditioned relaxing place for tired souls. And you could just keep expanding it.

What do you think?
 

CSOM

Member
Originally posted by Disneynutcase

A lot of Epcot's FutureWorld could be Tomorrowland attractions. Heck, Mission: Space is nothing more than a very sophisticated update of the old Mission To Mars, isn't it?

Careful, I mentioned that once and almost got my head bitten off.... :brick:

Not to get into the AE/Stitch discussion, but it depends on the people. I'm going to guess that the people who say it has no re-rideability are the same kind of people who can't watch a movie more than once or twice... "You've seen it once, why go again?" While those who take in the attraction over and over again find something new each and everytime, like when watching your favorite movie or listening to your favorite cd for the 1000th time...

Back to the original topic, I agree. Both trips this year, we would get a FP for Space, then wonder what to do.... it was go on AE, TTA, or wander to Fantasyland or ride HM or something else. It needs other attractions to pull guests from Buzz and Space (FP fillers if you will). Someone mentioned Adventureland as lacking, but there aren't 2 high wait lines there, and it has a good mix with PoC, JC, Tiki, Aladdin, the Tree, and it's proximity to Splash and BTMRR... That hurts too, because the proximity for TL is Fantasyland, and you usually can't go and quickly hop on any of their rides....
 

Disneynutcase

New Member
I dunno. I'm still pondering Disney's problem here and every time I think up a potential ride as a "fix," it either is scientific and/or educational which makes it better suited for Epcot; too movie-related making it better suited for MGM (which needs more rides as it is!); or too related to the characters which makes it better suited for Fantasyland.

Problem is, when Disney themeparks were only the two Magic Kingdoms, Tomorrowland was the area for anything sci-fi, educational, or futuristic. Now with the other parks (including TDS in Japan), Tomorrowland as a concept is almost obsolete and done much better elsewhere.

This is why on the west coast, the area now reeks of a mish-mash of other parks (Star Tours, HISTA, Innoventions, an attempt to re-do the ride part of Test Track that failed miserablly). It also depresses the hell out of me because so much of it is closed. Doesn't help that Space Mountain renovation has it down until 2005.

Since they have discussed re-doing Future World at Epcot--giving it a new name and new overall theming--Disney really needs to do the same for its Tomorrowlands. Problem is, what can they do with the buildings and land or lack of land to recreate the area?

The Jules Verne makeover has been interesting, definately better decor than the old colorful tiles and lots of white. But maybe they didn't go far enough with the Verne thing. Maybe that's the problem.

Personally, I find Tomorrowland and what's become of it to be depressing because it just seems to be ignored by Imagineers and Disney Execs. I guess they figure that Space Mountain will always pull people to this area of the parks and everything else they have here as attractions can just be time killers and space fillers.

In fact, I'm starting to feel that the popularity of the Buzz Lightyear ride happened by accident--meaning they didn't think it would be that much of a draw. This is probably why they are going to the Stitch AE makeover, thinking that it worked last time and hoping that another nice accident will happen.

Beyond Buzz and Stitch, does Disney have any other sci-fi-ish exploitable characters, so that they can go towards this direction with Tomorrowland? Or is it a matter of letting Imagineers finally come up with another original idea (something not based on pre-existing film or characters like SE or PotC)?

Point is, they really need to do something. In fact, anything new at MK needs to keep happening in Tomorrowland until they get it looking and feeling right.

Just my opinion though.
 

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
In my opinion...the Magic Kingdom is all about fun and fantasy...not education. Epcot is about Discovery, Future, and Human accomplishments and lifestyles. MGM is all about entertainment and the Animal Kingdom is all about conservation and "life" in general.

Disney became what it is today based on it's films and characters...why not pump the Magic Kingdom with characters...I'm not saying that every attraction needs characters, but if you're gonna put characters into any park, the Magic Kingdom is the park to put them in.

Treasure Planet, sadly, did horrible in the box office and it's a shame because as a movie...it was pretty good (IMO). A Treasure Planet attraction (even if it was a solar surfer chase) would fit perfectly in Tomorrowland...after all...the tomorrowland in the Magic Kingdom isn't based on a "REAL" tomorrow...it's based on a fictional one.
 

NemoRocks78

Seized
A TRON attraction in The Timekeeper building would work. Think of the possibilities-lasers, pyro, etc. Could even use live actors. And somehow the Circlevision could be worked in too. The Treasure Planet is also a good idea too, but I don't see how it could be fit to become an attraction. Adventure Thru Inner Space also sounds good, it sounds like it could be a 3-D attraction.
 

mrtoad

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by CSOM

Not to get into the AE/Stitch discussion, but it depends on the people. I'm going to guess that the people who say it has no re-rideability are the same kind of people who can't watch a movie more than once or twice... "You've seen it once, why go again?" While those who take in the attraction over and over again find something new each and everytime, like when watching your favorite movie or listening to your favorite cd for the 1000th time...

I kind of get what you are saying because I enjoy riding many rides over and over. I will ride Haunted Mansion many times in a row or Space Mountain or Pirates, etc. The reason I think that AE is different is you don't see most of it, it is in your head. That being said, we do it about twice each trip. I still enjoy it, but I just don't think it is as good the second time, third time, etc. Because it is not visual like said Pirates, you can't just sit and enjoy the visual display in front of you. It is built for surprise and for fear of what will happen. Once you know what is coming it is not so scary.

But, I also think that the effects are excellent. I think when the tube blows, that is one of the best effects I have seen.

Don't get me wrong, if I were going to the park today I would be riding it today.
 

mrtoad

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by WDWFREAK53


Treasure Planet, sadly, did horrible in the box office and it's a shame because as a movie...it was pretty good (IMO). A Treasure Planet attraction (even if it was a solar surfer chase) would fit perfectly in Tomorrowland...after all...the tomorrowland in the Magic Kingdom isn't based on a "REAL" tomorrow...it's based on a fictional one.

I agree, Treasure Planet was excellent. I rented it for my daughter one night and she did like for a while and then wondered off. I though did not wonder off and I purchased it later in the week.

If they did an attraction based on it, the Solar Surfer thing would be cool. They could do it sort of how the old "If You Had Wings" had that scene where you went through that windy tunnel like room that had a movie of either cars or ice surfers, etc. It make you feel like you were cruising yet you were going like a 1/2 mile per hour. Very cool feeling, though I think to much of that could make some people sick (my wife is one of them).
 

jimmything7

New Member
Originally posted by mikebegley
I agree, Treasure Planet was excellent. I rented it for my daughter one night and she did like for a while and then wondered off. I though did not wonder off and I purchased it later in the week.

If they did an attraction based on it, the Solar Surfer thing would be cool. They could do it sort of how the old "If You Had Wings" had that scene where you went through that windy tunnel like room that had a movie of either cars or ice surfers, etc. It make you feel like you were cruising yet you were going like a 1/2 mile per hour. Very cool feeling, though I think to much of that could make some people sick (my wife is one of them).

If they did this then they could begin to market more Treasure Planet stuff too, at least in Magic Kingdom. You never know....a ride could cause a surge of people that want the movie. I know that after I rode Splash Mountain I wanted to see the Disney movie. Then I found out it was banned in the US or whatever. But hey, Treasure Planet is still legal!
 

Swagger

New Member
I would do anything to have a Tomorrowland like DLP but....no one here would understand it in the least. :( oh well. Just update Space Mountain....fix the back 70's looking sect. of Tomorrowland to fit with the rest, and rehab Gran Prix into something like DL's Autopia.
 

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