News New Theater to be built at the Magic Kingdom - now cancelled?

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
A movie might make a billion in a couple months. A AAA title will make that within a week of release.

Most games, including AAA games, don't make a billion dollars, just like most movies. But that's also beside the point.

I keep saying it, but total revenue isn't what matters here. If you sell 1000 copies of something at $10,000 a piece, you've pulled in $10 million. If you sell a million copies of something at $10, you've also pulled in $10 million. Which base do you think is more valuable to a theme park where volume matters? A theme park doesn't want only 1000 people; that's not how their business functions (unless, of course, they could charge those 1000 people $10,000 to enter -- which is kind of what Disney is doing with the Starcruiser, although it remains to be seen how well it will work long-term).

You’re managed to both contradict yourself and be incorrect.

How?

Unless you're misreading outsell. When I say outsell, I'm talking in terms of units sold, not dollars -- it's what I've talked about in every single post I've made. That's the only thing that matters in this discussion because the point of theme park lands/attractions is to attract guests, so you want the widest possible customer base. Also, to be clear, I'm only talking about PC/console games; mobile gaming is a whole other thing.

The top movies in a year are generally selling 50+ million tickets (Top Gun: Maverick sold around 75 million this year, I think); the top video games usually max out around 10-15 million sold in a year. GTA 5 has sold over 100 million, but that's a wild outlier and it's also been released like 5 times across different platforms over a 10 year span. I think Minecraft is the only other game that's cracked 100 million, and it's also been selling for well over a decade. Plus you're only seeing box office numbers for films -- the number of people who have seen it increases even more when you consider physical item sales, streaming, etc.

I really don't see a way to argue that your average highly successful game has had more eyes on it than your average highly successful film. There are multiple reasons for that -- a film requires less time commitment, it's cheaper than buying a game, it doesn't require buying special equipment (console or gaming PC), e.g. -- but it's still true.

EDIT: I mentioned this before, but I want to clarify so people who get knee jerk defense about gaming as a hobby understand I'm not attacking it. I have a Playstation 5 (and a bunch of older consoles) and a $2500 gaming laptop. I love video games. I'm just realistic about reach to the general public for individual games compared to other forms of media.
 
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Dranth

Well-Known Member
There’s no “but” about that. Mobile gaming is gaming, and the most popular form of it.
Also, generally the worst and most predatory version. Got to find ways to get people to pay for your "free" games. Although, the way Disney keeps up charging for everything maybe they are taking a lesson from the mobile gaming space.
 

bcoachable

Well-Known Member
So, if the original proposed site became too cost prohibitive- where then should the “possibly” rejuvenated theater go? I vaguely remember someone possibly mentioning something about a new addition in Adventureland back when this was first discussed?!?
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
Yes, I am kind of surprised it would be a controversial suggestion.

For example, I am in Mexico City at the moment and was walking through the big Bosque de Chapultepec park today which is packed with families and stalls with all kinds of things aimed at kids. Lots of Mickey and Minnie stuff amongst more recent characters (including a surprising amount of Forky!), but if Mario was there he was certainly harder to spot. Also see the knock-off Mickey and Minnie costumed characters in the centre of town!

That's all far from scientific, but my experience moving through the world has certainly been that Mickey is pretty ubiquitous.
Yes, I am kind of surprised it would be a controversial suggestion.
Knockoff Minnie and Mickey characters…
For example, I am in Mexico City at the moment and was walking through the big Bosque de Chapultepec park today which is packed with families and stalls with all kinds of things aimed at kids. Lots of Mickey and Minnie stuff amongst more recent characters (including a surprising amount of Forky!), but if Mario was there he was certainly harder to spot. Also see the knock-off Mickey and Minnie costumed characters in the centre of town!

That's all far from scientific, but my experience moving through the world has certainly been that Mickey is pretty ubiquitous.

Costumed knock-off Minnie and Mickey characters…are you sure you aren’t in Times Square?
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Most games, including AAA games, don't make a billion dollars, just like most movies. But that's also beside the point.

I keep saying it, but total revenue isn't what matters here. If you sell 1000 copies of something at $10,000 a piece, you've pulled in $10 million. If you sell a million copies of something at $10, you've also pulled in $10 million. Which base do you think is more valuable to a theme park where volume matters? A theme park doesn't want only 1000 people; that's not how their business functions (unless, of course, they could charge those 1000 people $10,000 to enter -- which is kind of what Disney is doing with the Starcruiser, although it remains to be seen how well it will work long-term).



How?

Unless you're misreading outsell. When I say outsell, I'm talking in terms of units sold, not dollars -- that should be obvious because it's what I've talked about in every single post I've made. That's the only thing that matters in this discussion because the point of theme park lands/attractions is to attract guests, so you want the widest possible customer base. Also, to be clear, I'm only talking about PC/console games; mobile gaming is a whole other thing.

The top movies in a year are generally selling 50+ million tickets (Top Gun: Maverick sold around 75 million this year, I think); the top video games usually max out around 10-15 million sold in a year. GTA 5 has sold over 100 million, but that's a wild outlier and it's also been released like 5 times across different platforms over a 10 year span. I think Minecraft is the only other game that's cracked 100 million, and it's also been selling for well over a decade. Plus you're only seeing box office numbers for films -- the number of people who have seen it increases even more when you consider physical item sales, streaming, etc.

I really don't see a way to argue that your average highly successful game has had more eyes on it than your average highly successful film. There are multiple reasons for that -- a film requires less time commitment, it's cheaper than buying a game, it doesn't require buying special equipment (console or gaming PC), e.g. -- but it's still true.

EDIT: I mentioned this before, but I want to clarify so people who get knee jerk defense about gaming as a hobby understand I'm not attacking it. I have a Playstation 5 (and a bunch of older consoles) and a $2500 gaming laptop. I love video games. I'm just realistic about reach to the general public for individual games compared to other forms of media.
Yeah, I'm not sure what the difficulty is in understanding how something can sell more in dollar terms without selling more in volume terms. In terms of volume, it becomes even fuzzier when you start taking streaming and other factors into account.

I don't think anyone is saying anything is better or worse, good or bad. This discussion just came up over the idea Mario was some kind of super IP beyond even Harry Potter. As it turns out, M&Ms are the real super IP in terms of the public's affections. 🤷‍♂️

Anyway, as others have said, it's a shame the theatre didn't happen as it seems to be exactly what the park needed. Not sure there's much more to say on that, though, as it doesn't seem to be on again.
 

No Name

Well-Known Member
How?

Unless you're misreading outsell. When I say outsell, I'm talking in terms of units sold, not dollars -- it's what I've talked about in every single post I've made. That's the only thing that matters in this discussion because the point of theme park lands/attractions is to attract guests, so you want the widest possible customer base. Also, to be clear, I'm only talking about PC/console games; mobile gaming is a whole other thing.

Yet you’re arguing that video games aren’t “on the same level” in terms of cultural reach and that people are less interested in the settings of the Mario franchise as important points in this discussion. So which is it? If you measure the widest customer base, mobile has every other medium crushed, but of course you dismissed it a sentence later. Your personal opinions are really taking hold in what you think is a factual discussion.
 

No Name

Well-Known Member
Also, generally the worst and most predatory version. Got to find ways to get people to pay for your "free" games. Although, the way Disney keeps up charging for everything maybe they are taking a lesson from the mobile gaming space.
“The worst” is your opinion and evidently not shared by the millions of healthy and normal people who enjoy these games. Unless you look at all of them like addicts and victims just waiting to discover true gaming.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
“The worst” is your opinion and evidently not shared by the millions of healthy and normal people who enjoy these games. Unless you look at all of them like addicts and victims just waiting to discover true gaming.
The worst in terms of more pay to win junk, doublers, loot boxes, blantent rip offs and copycats, etc. than other gaming. Not that there aren’t plenty of good ones in that space, just a higher level of trash as well.
 

No Name

Well-Known Member
The worst in terms of more pay to win junk, doublers, loot boxes, blantent rip offs and copycats, etc. than other gaming. Not that there aren’t plenty of good ones in that space, just a higher level of trash as well.
Some people genuinely enjoy the structure of mobile games and have no interest in a $60 console game. Obviously some are better than others and there is plenty of actual trash that’s usually unsuccessful anyways. But I wonder what kind of successful and popular games you would consider “trash.”
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Yet you’re arguing that video games aren’t “on the same level” in terms of cultural reach and that people are less interested in the settings of the Mario franchise as important points in this discussion. So which is it? If you measure the widest customer base, mobile has every other medium crushed, but of course you dismissed it a sentence later. Your personal opinions are really taking hold in what you think is a factual discussion.

I'm not sure why you're trying to force mobile gaming in as if it's a "gotcha" moment. This discussion started around Mario, which is a console IP (yes, I'm aware there are some mobile Mario games). Console/PC gaming are similar to one another and easy to group together; mobile gaming is a very different market. It's basically like everyone else is having one discussion and you're interjecting with a completely separate one.

If you want to bring mobile gaming into it, then yes, it has the largest customer base -- Candy Crush has (or had; I don't know about the current figures) over 200 million players a month. It's just not relevant to this discussion. I'd also guess that the vast majority of Candy Crush players wouldn't have any interest in a Candy Crush theme park land, but that's just speculation.
 
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No Name

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why you're trying to force mobile gaming in as if it's a "gotcha" moment. This discussion started around Mario, which is a console IP (yes, I'm aware there are some mobile Mario games). Console/PC gaming are similar to one another and easy to group together; mobile gaming is a very different market. It's basically like everyone else is having one discussion and you're interjecting with a completely separate one.

If you want to bring mobile gaming into it, then yes, it has the largest customer base -- Candy Crush has (or had; I don't know about the current figures) over 200 million players a month. It's just not relevant to this discussion. I'd also guess that the vast majority of Candy Crush players wouldn't have any interest in a Candy Crush theme park land, but that's just speculation.
I shouldn’t have mentioned mobile gaming because it allowed you to focus on that while ignoring the first part of my reply about your contradictory points.

At least I can agree it’s an awful lot of speculation.
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
So, if the original proposed site became too cost prohibitive- where then should the “possibly” rejuvenated theater go? I vaguely remember someone possibly mentioning something about a new addition in Adventureland back when this was first discussed?!?
Yikes no. Adventureland is already clustered up enough. The only two places that could use a decent live-auditorium attraction would be

1). The back side of Frontierland, where space is available...

2). Replace Hall of Presidents' auditorium with a new live stage show auditorium (seems like a no-brainer to me)

3). Main Street, where they originally planned it. (Which is also a no-brainer. Brings folks back to the front of the park where all the shopping is, and where there isn't much congestion.)
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Side note -- I vaguely remember a Tomorrowland amphitheater when I was a kid that was never open... Is that space still available?
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I shouldn’t have mentioned mobile gaming because it allowed you to focus on that while ignoring the first part of my reply about your contradictory points.

At least I can agree it’s an awful lot of speculation.

There was no contradictory point. I explained that in my response to you.

The only way it could be contradictory is for you to misread it. The top movies outsell the top video games every year, and usually by a wide margin. And to explain again, sell is in terms of units sold, which I said. You seem to be conveniently ignoring 90% of what I post, since you keep harping on points that were already explained.

I'm backing out now because it's a waste of my time to respond to people who either don't read what they're responding to or read it and intentionally misrepresent it.
 

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