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New Parks
- Thread starter dommy
- Start date
awallaceunc
New Member
Universal is beating Disney?? The last thing I saw showed MK easily commanding the lead. Granted, this was a few months back, but still... I don't even think Universal was 2nd.
-Aaron
-Aaron
General Grizz
New Member
I'm saying Disney isn't the lead anymore. From animation - Pixar, Warner Brothers (Polar Express) - to television, Disney has no definite innovative "edge."
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
When will the addition of parks stop? When does it become too many parks? I am honestly struggling to imagine a resort with 5 theme parks...eventually, there has to be a critical mass of how much people are willing to spend on a wdw trip before they just decide "we'll skip Epcot" or "we'll see Animal Kingdom next trip". Regardless, with as much money as they are putting into the parks now...I would like to see things continue as they are now for another 10 years before they even consider any new theme park.
MagicalMonorail
New Member
Tokyo's DisneySea looks awesome. Those rides look so original and creative. A lot of them don't look too expensive to make either. That would be a great addition to WDW. But, I have to agree that MGM and Animal Kingdom need a few more attractions. These parks have a lot of fans and a lot of potential.
Pioneer Hall
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the peopl who don't want to see a new park for a while. Sure it would be nice to see DisneySeas in WDW, but I want to see the 4 parks they have now be as good as that. Animal Kingdom has so much potential to it. It is huge, beautiful, and underdeveloped. I would much rather see the money put in to making that park the spectacular place it should be. When I look at AK and DisneySeas I really don't see that many differences. Both parks really have the same idea. They are both incredible places...but DisneySea wasn't built half finished. Just imagine if AK had the attraction numbers it should have. It would be just as good as DisneySea (in my opinion anyway). I can't see a 5th gate opening until the 4 gates they have are as perfect as they can be. Besides the MK (and Epcot is getting there) there are a lot of possibilities to be had in the Disney theme parks. The studios and Animal Kingdom could be much better places if money and ideas were just put in to them.
speck76
Well-Known Member
I think the addition of any more theme parks in Orlando will not occur for some time.
When Universal built IOA, the decision was based on the fact that at the time, they were spending close to $100 million for every new attraction. Universal Studios was going to build the Jurrasic PArk ride at the studios, when Universal thought that by adding a second gate, they could get an additional $50 per person for the investment. Prior to IOA opening, Universal Studios was getting around 9 million visitors per year, if IOA could attract the same amount of visitors, the park would be much better off.
This plan did not work out as well as expected. With the opening of DAK a year prior, plus confusing marketing of the Universal Resort (It was Universal City Florida forever, then at the 11th hour changed to Universal Studios Escape) IOA was pretty much a flop, even though it was very highly regarded by visitors. The park only attracted 3.5 million in 1999 (open for 8 months) and just over 5 million in 2000...two banner years in Orlando tourism. On top of this, Universal Studios attendance was declining rapidly, around 1.5 million people less visited the studios in IOA's first full year....instead of the two parks attracting 18 million guests per year, they were only getting about 12 million...a net gain of only 3 million guests, which would not cover the expenses of a $1 billion expansion.
Disney World experienced the same type of situation when DAK opened in 1998. Prior to DAK, MGM was attracting almost 10 million guests per year. The first year DAK was open, MGM attendance was down 10%, followed by a 9% loss the following year, and another 6% loss in 2001. Epcot posted similar losses. The net gain at Disney World was not as expected.
Anyway, even with the economy improving, it would not be a wide business decision to open a new park any time soon. As the masses come back, they will of course want to see new attractions and shows, but IMO the investment should be made in the existing parks....they all still have so much potential.
When Universal built IOA, the decision was based on the fact that at the time, they were spending close to $100 million for every new attraction. Universal Studios was going to build the Jurrasic PArk ride at the studios, when Universal thought that by adding a second gate, they could get an additional $50 per person for the investment. Prior to IOA opening, Universal Studios was getting around 9 million visitors per year, if IOA could attract the same amount of visitors, the park would be much better off.
This plan did not work out as well as expected. With the opening of DAK a year prior, plus confusing marketing of the Universal Resort (It was Universal City Florida forever, then at the 11th hour changed to Universal Studios Escape) IOA was pretty much a flop, even though it was very highly regarded by visitors. The park only attracted 3.5 million in 1999 (open for 8 months) and just over 5 million in 2000...two banner years in Orlando tourism. On top of this, Universal Studios attendance was declining rapidly, around 1.5 million people less visited the studios in IOA's first full year....instead of the two parks attracting 18 million guests per year, they were only getting about 12 million...a net gain of only 3 million guests, which would not cover the expenses of a $1 billion expansion.
Disney World experienced the same type of situation when DAK opened in 1998. Prior to DAK, MGM was attracting almost 10 million guests per year. The first year DAK was open, MGM attendance was down 10%, followed by a 9% loss the following year, and another 6% loss in 2001. Epcot posted similar losses. The net gain at Disney World was not as expected.
Anyway, even with the economy improving, it would not be a wide business decision to open a new park any time soon. As the masses come back, they will of course want to see new attractions and shows, but IMO the investment should be made in the existing parks....they all still have so much potential.
I think we have already hit that point. I know that since I often am only able to go down for 3 or 4 days, I don't always do every park. And I am sure there are many others who don't, either. Perhaps this is why they are going so slowly on Animal Kingdom - they figure they wouldn't get more people - they'd just draw from the other parks.
Animal Kingdom has a huge amount of potential, but so does Magic Kingdom and Epcot. I would love to see them expand World Showcase and add some more attractionds to that area. I would also like to see them add to (NOT REPLACE) Future World - I think that there are hundreds of good ideas that could be incorporated into it if they were willing to be a little more daring in how they do business.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
That's one big problem with having 4 parks: it is VERY expensive to keep updating all four parks, and people go to the parks expecting to see something new at every park every time they visit. All of the parks have a lot of potention, but it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to bring even one of those parks up to its full potential, but then the other 3 parks would stagnate. Thus, each park must go through slow development. It seems each time Disney adds a theme park, it has even fewer offerings than the park before it, because Disney has so many parks to maintain that the amount of money available drops.
Magic Kingdom
Epcot (a little less)
MGM (a lot less)
AK (even less)
Walt Disney Studios Paris (next to nothing)
Hong Kong Disneyland (3 lands...sigh)
I purposely left DCA out b/c I don't think it has less to offer than AK, but that is certainly up to dispute.
Magic Kingdom
Epcot (a little less)
MGM (a lot less)
AK (even less)
Walt Disney Studios Paris (next to nothing)
Hong Kong Disneyland (3 lands...sigh)
I purposely left DCA out b/c I don't think it has less to offer than AK, but that is certainly up to dispute.
DisneyFan 2000
Well-Known Member
ISTCNavigator57 said:
Those three parks IMO shouldn't even be open! Why bother with all those half day parks? (I consider DCA a half day park because most attractions are a short thrill and nothing more) Those three are a discrase (sp?) to the company and the Disney name! :hurl:
DisneyFan 2000
Well-Known Member
objr said:
"You'd be suprised...." Scar, The Lion King
:lookaroun
speck76
Well-Known Member
DisneyFan 2000 said:
I think that is the major problem with DCA, it has a lot of rides, but many are just better themed carnival type rides. It does not matter that they took a Wave Swinger and built a large orange around it....it is still just a Wave Swinger. The major problem with this is that the LA area has both Knott's Berry Farm and Six Flags Magic Mountain that have a much larger selection of these rides, along with many more rollercoasters.
Over the years, the Disney theme parks have developed a formula that highly themed attractions with a great story line and a multi-sensory thrill make for a great park. When they built DCA, they threw this formula out the window, which really makes no sense. This was always an area where Disney parks had a major advantage over the competitors. When they got off of this formula, they found that not only did the product not appeal with the general public, but that it also had a hard time measuring up with the other established parks.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I can't really blame Disney for thinking that. They thought areas like Paradise Pier are popular, so if we mix that with Disney magic (the rest of the park), it should be successful. It's certainly logical, it just didn't work out that way--partially because DCA costs more than Knotts or Magic Mountain. Disney also forgot that the reason people return to Knotts or Six Flags a couple times each year is because they have so many coasters (16 at MM, soon to be 7 at Knotts). Paradise Pier's 2 coasters just can't compare. Granted, I love California Adventure, but that is partially because to the Disneyland Resort, I am a tourist (my last trip was for a week in Spring 2003 and my next trip is 8 days for the Golden Celebration in August 2005). One does have to give credit where due--Paradise Pier is the best amusement park style area I have ever seen, and it looks beautiful at night. Furthermore, California Screamin' is my favorite coaster anywhere. Golden State and Hollywood Pictures Backlot both have that traditional Disney theming that we have gotten used to, with Golden State being one of the most beautiful areas in a Disney theme park I have ever seen (thus Grizzly and Soarin's high popularity). Hollywood Pictures Backlot may mimic MGM, but I still love it (for the same reasons I love MGM) and Tower of Terror is building this area's popularity. This park is clearly, now, a mix of traditional Disney theming (even "a bug's land" has fantastic theming, even if I don't ride anything there) and amusement park thrills with a Disney twist, and Disney is working to introduce only themed attractions, now (the next two rides are a heavily themed D-ticket for Hollywood Pictures Backlot and a heavily themed E-Ride for Golden State, both opening around 2007), which will help Cali Adventure a lot. I would at least say they are putting more into Cali Adventure than WDW puts into Animal Kingdom...
speck76
Well-Known Member
They really have to expand DCA faster than any of the WDW parks. Since they have decided to compete with SFMM and KBF, parks that add new attractions almost every year, they need to keep expanding the park to jsut keep up, or they will risk losing their target market to the other parks.
I think one major mistake with DCA is that they tried to open the park the way that they open parks at WDW.
If you look at the opening of Epcot, MGM, and DAK, they opened very incomplete, and short on attractions. This works somewhat in Florida because the parks on are dependent on local residents for the cheif market. WDW draws many more visitors from the out of the region than DL/DCA does....this is clearly evident by the large amount of hotels at WDW and in Orlando. (there is a reason why Orlando, for as small as it is, has the second largest hotel room inventory in the US). When parks are opened at WDW, they can be incomplete, as the majority of guests to WDW visit every few years, so on the first visit, they are introduced to the park, and 2-4 years later when they return, the park has added a lot of new attractions (phase 2) and it is a whole new experience for the guest. With DCA being so reliant on locals, and local repeat visitation, the opening of a small park, with many attractions that are found at the other two parks in the region, was not enough to influence local repeat visitation. I have not been to DCA, but it looks beautiful....but beauty can only go so far. Mullholland Madness is still just a Wild Mouse....a ride that has been around forever. The Orange Stinger is still just a Wave Swinger, another ride that has been around forever....and on and on. The few rides that DCA did open with that were not just well themed carnival rides, like Superstar Limo, were done so poorly that nobody liked them. Now, if DCA would have opened in its current state, with ToT, ITtbaB, the Bug's Land, The Aladdin Show....it probably would not have been such a disaster. I do think that DCA is still just one or two great attractions away from being a great park, but only time will tell.
I think one major mistake with DCA is that they tried to open the park the way that they open parks at WDW.
If you look at the opening of Epcot, MGM, and DAK, they opened very incomplete, and short on attractions. This works somewhat in Florida because the parks on are dependent on local residents for the cheif market. WDW draws many more visitors from the out of the region than DL/DCA does....this is clearly evident by the large amount of hotels at WDW and in Orlando. (there is a reason why Orlando, for as small as it is, has the second largest hotel room inventory in the US). When parks are opened at WDW, they can be incomplete, as the majority of guests to WDW visit every few years, so on the first visit, they are introduced to the park, and 2-4 years later when they return, the park has added a lot of new attractions (phase 2) and it is a whole new experience for the guest. With DCA being so reliant on locals, and local repeat visitation, the opening of a small park, with many attractions that are found at the other two parks in the region, was not enough to influence local repeat visitation. I have not been to DCA, but it looks beautiful....but beauty can only go so far. Mullholland Madness is still just a Wild Mouse....a ride that has been around forever. The Orange Stinger is still just a Wave Swinger, another ride that has been around forever....and on and on. The few rides that DCA did open with that were not just well themed carnival rides, like Superstar Limo, were done so poorly that nobody liked them. Now, if DCA would have opened in its current state, with ToT, ITtbaB, the Bug's Land, The Aladdin Show....it probably would not have been such a disaster. I do think that DCA is still just one or two great attractions away from being a great park, but only time will tell.
DisneyFan 2000
Well-Known Member
I agree with your comment, except for EPCOT. It opened up pretty full... Lets just say, no one here would call it a 'half-day' park! :animwink:
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I agree...I think it will be popular by its 7th birthday, which would be impressive. You can already tell (despite what you read on the internet) that more people are coming to DCA thanks to the Tower of Terror, and you will notice that nothing new has been added to Paradise Pier since opening for a reason (nor are there plans for anything new there). Disney is trying to increase the Disney fun at this park, and the new parade, Disney's Block Party Bash! featuring tons of awesome floats with PIXAR characters in a mix between Share a Dream Come True and Mickey's Jammin Jungle Parade (the floats stop for street parties around the Golden State involving tons of guests) promises to be very popular and just a heck of a lot of fun, which I am really looking forward to for the same reasons that I love Mickey's Jammin Jungle Parade. It'll help to unite the park every afternoon and it's fun for the whole family...and it has awesome music! There will not be a person not clapping along to Disney's Block Party Bash! 
speck76
Well-Known Member
Epcot may have opened more completed than the other parks, but Horizons, JII (ride portion), Sunrise Terrace, the nighttime show, all opened within a year of the park opening.
Epcot really only opened with 3 pavilions, SSE, Communicore, and 9 countries. FW must have seemed really small in 1982.
Epcot really only opened with 3 pavilions, SSE, Communicore, and 9 countries. FW must have seemed really small in 1982.
DarkMeasures
New Member
Bill said:
I never realized WDW had a fire ant problem untilI went backstage at the magic kingdom...
I want to see DisneyMGM and Animal Kingdom further developed before anything happens anywhere alse. DisneyMGM is still incrediably small and There is a good quarter of the park with absolutly nothing in it. (big city street)
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Which is why the next big E-Ride is going east of Big City Street/Streets of America/Big Facades Blvd/Forced Perspective Ave. whatever it's called!DarkMeasures said: