News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[ford91exploder]

I completely agree with regards to the cast members passing on information to the guests. A lot of times it is just easier to explain they are not operational, and point the guests to the mode that will complete their trip. While the majority of the cast do know exactly what the problem is, if we were to try and explain it to the guests it would more than likely confuse them and make them even more frustrated. With regards to downtime, simple explanations are almost always the best method. As inconvenient it may be for the guests, remember that the cast would rather be operating instead of being yelled at, yes yelled at, by guests who may only be inconvenienced a mere 2 minutes by going to a bus or ferryboat.

The problem is now it's not a 2 minute delay it's 20 minutes to an hour delay and that's what gets people hacked off

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm very glad they're bringing them back up to the standards they should be. As I had said I noticed a big difference on the interior, I was very complimentary.

And to be fair, while you and I know why the monorail is down, to the average guest, it does look bad when they're not operational. Not saying I agree with any outrage but they're not going to know it's offline for a reason, and the castmembers don't really offer up anything but a shrug and point to the ferry boats, so maybe they should be more forthcoming with information.

And, again to be fair, they shouldn't take the monorail offline for the times that they do even for the work needed (WDW should pay them to work overnights, if possible but we know that won't happen). I know they have to do what they have to do but they're kind of you-know-what if they do and you-know-what if they don't. So I don't know what they could do. But I'm personally happy they're being worked on. But look at it from the average guests perspective and the resort guests perspective ... not saying it's the right perspective but all they're going to see is the monorail offline. It's all about show. And it's poor show, even for the right reasons.

The issue is ARE they being worked on or simply offline to save money

 

[Figment2005]

The issue is ARE they being worked on or simply offline to save money

Worked on

 

[Creathir]

While neat, it also needs to be practical first and foremost. If it fails for transportation, then it fails. Period. Whatever wow factor it has becomes irrelevant if it doesn't do its job.




Wow. It's is the rare marriage of a straw man and ad hominem! First of all, no one is 'hating' on the monorail by pointing out its inefficiencies. And noting its inefficiencies isn't because of a Simpsons Episode.

Your argument has officially become ridiculous. You're the one who is a super fan of the monorail because you're romanticizing it, and then you characterize everyone who disagrees as mindless puppets of a Simpsons Episode.

Nice.






I bet people said that a gondola couldn't go over the East River, too.

Who said anything about it not being possible? Of course a gondola COULD, but the question is SHOULD.

It won't be happening, and going around the lake is also impractical.

Gondolas won't be at Bay Lake.

As to the attacks about inefficiencies, 360 passengers every 5 minutes, per track if operating a peak capacity.

Around 6000-8000+ passengers per hour for the TTC and MK.

That is a ton of people, and all electric.

 

[ford91exploder]

Worked on

That is GOOD NEWS for a change out of WDW

 

[MisterPenguin]

As to the attacks about inefficiencies, 360 passengers every 5 minutes, per track if operating a peak capacity.

Around 6000-8000+ passengers per hour for the TTC and MK.

That is a ton of people, and all electric.

Yes, it is a lot.

But the people showing up at peak times is a whole lot more now.

The point is that monorail as it exists now is being swamped by the continuous growth in attendance.

WDW already did some things to alleviate that: move the resort buses to the gate rather than the TTC; adjusted prices and discount to smooth out attendance seasonally; tweak the monorails' efficiency.

But if attendance keeps growing, then the monorail's lack of capacity for what is needed will become more and more evident. (So, remember that everyone who keeps asking for the MK to expand.)

I would think, and I have no idea of it's feasibility, that they could add two or even more ferries to the system so that at peak times, both docks have a ferry and one or two are in transit. Those extra ferries can be docked elsewhere and brought out at peak times. Or, build more docks.

 

[Kamikaze]

As to the attacks about inefficiencies, 360 passengers every 5 minutes, per track if operating a peak capacity.

Around 6000-8000+ passengers per hour for the TTC and MK.

A single gondola line is going to do at least 3000 per hour. (Thats what the La Paz system does as a minimum) If you were to put them in at the MK area resorts, they would put in 4 direct lines. Thats 12000. And if it was me, I'd run two between TTC and MK, so that would be 15000. (And if this was the plan, they'd clearly do a 5th for WL, but that number doesn't matter here).

You're missing out on the biggest thing. It has to do with peak numbers. Anything can handle the crowds during the day. Monorail is fine for that. But at peak it can't handle the rush. That isn't in question. A flexible system or one that is constantly moving both handle all crowds better than a fixed system based on a train. If the monorail track was replaced by a PeopleMover? That is the actual perfect solution. Constantly moving, 'futuristic', electric, pretty reliable.

Also, your 'sight lines' thing is thinking this is going to be something its not. These are not going to be MK Skyway height for the entire trip. They will keep them decently low to the ground because a) its cheaper and b) there isn't any reason to go that high.

 

[Kman101]

I completely agree with regards to the cast members passing on information to the guests. A lot of times it is just easier to explain they are not operational, and point the guests to the mode that will complete their trip. While the majority of the cast do know exactly what the problem is, if we were to try and explain it to the guests it would more than likely confuse them and make them even more frustrated. With regards to downtime, simple explanations are almost always the best method. As inconvenient it may be for the guests, remember that the cast would rather be operating instead of being yelled at, yes yelled at, by guests who may only be inconvenienced a mere 2 minutes by going to a bus or ferryboat.

Very true. A lot of times a guest doesn't want to hear the explanation and they get outraged regardless ... so again they're you-know-what if they do and you-know-what if they don't :/

 

[Figment2005]

Yes, it is a lot.

But the people showing up at peak times is a whole lot more now.

The point is that monorail as it exists now is being swamped by the continuous growth in attendance.

WDW already did some things to alleviate that: move the resort buses to the gate rather than the TTC; adjusted prices and discount to smooth out attendance seasonally; tweak the monorails' efficiency.

But if attendance keeps growing, then the monorail's lack of capacity for what is needed will become more and more evident. (So, remember that everyone who keeps asking for the MK to expand.)

I would think, and I have no idea of it's feasibility, that they could add two or even more ferries to the system so that at peak times, both docks have a ferry and one or two are in transit. Those extra ferries can be docked elsewhere and brought out at peak times. Or, build more docks.

Every transportation method is being swamped by the current guest demands. At this same peak time, buses at all resorts are swamped, boats at all resorts are swamped, monorails are swamped, and ferries are swamped. This isn't a monorail problem, its a site wide capacity problem, and a monorail is able to cope with that demand much better than a bus or boat or gondola ever could.

 

[kthomas105]

By increasing speed or the frequency of trains you increase the capacity.

The automation project accomplishes both of those objectives.

The monorail is a very effective means of moving folks around Bay Lake. A train is perfect for this situation, lots of folks needing to be staggered into the front of the park in a quick fashion while increasing excitement for the day to come along the entire journey to that land of fantasy.

As much as the monorail hating club, mostly born out of that ridiculous Simpsons episode, would like to see the death of the monorail, it's not going anywhere.

It is an amazing technology which can be improved and obviously modernized. The likely next step is full autonomy and a restructuring of the cars themselves to accommodate a level surface for quicker loading/unloading.

A system like a gondola would be impractical for Bay Lake.

1. Can't go directly over the lake, it kills the sightline of the money shot for the WDW, swooping in from the lake and down Main Street towards the castle.

2. It's not practical when you have numerous stops which are need along the journey. There are 3 other stations besides TTC and MK. If a system went around Bay Lake it would need to stop at all 3 of these points as well. Your 5 minute monorail journey becomes an hour+ as you wait to transfer at each station, and the poor suckers who stay at GF are screwed because no gondolas are ever empty on the peak traffic times.

Like it or not, the monorail is a terrific technology for this particular job.

Here is a photo showing how a gondola could actually work for the resorts around bay lake. Basically each colored gondola in this photo has a specific station it stops at, but lets take this a step further, in theory with an automated system riders could operate the gondola similar to an elevator and press a button for their desired stop once entering the vehicle. For example you leave the MK and board the gondola with just your 10 family members and you are staying at the contemporary. You would depart the MK station traveling the same path the monorail takes now but instead of stopping at all 3 stations between you and the contemporary you bypass them and stay on the main line. Think of it as a horizontal, continuous elevator (I realize that is an oxymoron but humor me). That would be the ideal people mover for this area, although I have nothing against the monorail and still get excited riding it. I'm just intrigued at the options gondolas can provide for transportation. Also by moving the security screening area out to the resorts and TTC a gondola system would create a steady flow of people arriving at their destination. This is completely different from the current system that creates waves of people from ferries and monorail trains.

 

[Doug Means]

Isn't there a picture of where the purposed gondola system will be to start with, and that has nothing to do with bay lake???

 

[Kamikaze]

Isn't there a picture of where the purposed gondola system will be to start with, and that has nothing to do with bay lake???

No it doesn't. Its at CBR and Pop/AoA and Epcot/DHS.

Martin has also said that there are no plans for gondolas elsewhere on property.

That doesn't mean I can't refute his numbers with numbers of my own.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Every transportation method is being swamped by the current guest demands. At this same peak time, buses at all resorts are swamped, boats at all resorts are swamped, monorails are swamped, and ferries are swamped. This isn't a monorail problem, its a site wide capacity problem, and a monorail is able to cope with that demand much better than a bus or boat or gondola ever could.

The monorail's problem is the lack of ability to add a significant increase in cars to handle peak unless it was built from the beginning to handle the current and future peak, which it wasn't

Buses and boats can have extra buses and boats hanging out in a waiting facility to pop out for peak. In theory, the monorail could also do that, but, wasn't built for that. So, currently, boats and buses have the advantage of (relatively) easily adding more.

 

[Doug Means]

No it doesn't. Its at CBR and Pop/AoA and Epcot/DHS.

Martin has also said that there are no plans for gondolas elsewhere on property.

That doesn't mean I can't refute his numbers with numbers of my own.

im not say you can refute numbers, I'm just laughing at all the discussion about bay lake when there really doesn't need to be right not.

 

[Kamikaze]

Every transportation method is being swamped by the current guest demands. At this same peak time, buses at all resorts are swamped, boats at all resorts are swamped, monorails are swamped, and ferries are swamped. This isn't a monorail problem, its a site wide capacity problem, and a monorail is able to cope with that demand much better than a bus or boat or gondola ever could.

This is a blatantly false statement. How could something like a fixed capacity possibly cope with increasing demand? Monorail capacity is 360 every 4-5 minutes at maximum. Unless they put new trains in, that can't go higher. Even then, whats top going to be? 450? With a bus system, you just send another bus. Yes, a gondola system has a max throughput as well, but it is a continuous system, which means lines are moving and capacity continues to flow. It moves the same amount of guests continuously all the time.

 

[Daveeeeed]

All that matters is riders per hour. This idea that it's only so little every 5 minutes is nonsense. The Monorails are very good for what it's worth, but obviously it has to be done paired with buses & boats too.
Expanding it doesn't make that much sense in the near future... they just need to keep the current lines looking great.


An omnimover like the Haunted Mansion has an epic capacity, but Pirates can still do more even though it has load intervals.

 

[Kamikaze]

im not say you can refute numbers, I'm just laughing at all the discussion about bay lake when there really doesn't need to be right not.

Its because people like to defend the beloved monorail as some kind of savior of the resort's transportation problems. Pointing out that a bunch of gondola lines would actual serve more guests faster than the monorail is both keeping the thread on-topic as well as refuting the savior argument.

 

[Kamikaze]

All that matters is riders per hour. This idea that it's only so little every 5 minutes is nonsense.
An omnimover like the Haunted Mansion has an epic capacity, but Pirates can still do more even though it has load intervals.

Actually, Pirates and HM have exactly the same OHRC.

 

[peter11435]

Actually, Pirates and HM have exactly the same OHRC.

Actually, no they don't.

 

[Doug Means]

Its because people like to defend the beloved monorail as some kind of savior of the resort's transportation problems. Pointing out that a bunch of gondola lines would actual serve more guests faster than the monorail is both keeping the thread on-topic as well as refuting the savior argument.

yes

gondolas at best would just be a nice novelty addition to the area it is planned in. young kids will want to ride them, and that will put but a small dent into the entire crowd scheme of WDW, but families will like it and traditions to ride them will be made. just like the monorails did!