News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[flynnibus]

I think the PRT idea was started by someone saying the cars weren't attached to the lines, which is apparently false.

The gondolas are not attached to the cable... they clamp onto the cable when leaving the station, and release from the cable when entering the station. This is how they move at different speeds in the station without the cable changing speed. While in the station they ride along a rail and are propelled by booster wheels.

 

[Kamikaze]

its not entirely out of the realm of possibilities, it does seem like disney is looking at ways to monetize transportation with the minnie vans

agreed it would be amazing, though i think earlier in this thread we were fed some bad info when someone said these cars weren't fixed to the cables.

since they are most likely fixed to the cables as each car isnt independently powered a PRT in the sky isnt technologically feasible

magic bands!!

thats true, i guess what i meant was things didnt have to be this way if things would have been designed different ages ago
just because transfers are the "norm" doesnt mean thats the way it should be or has to be as tech is different now than it use to be

I think the PRT idea was started by someone saying the cars weren't attached to the lines, which is apparently false.

In one page you became an expert, eh?

Where exactly did you see this information that tells you the cabins are fixed to the cables? I'll wait.

 

[Creathir]

Do not assume transitioning from the cable to the station is the same thing as transitioning line to line. Such a system would effectively be the same as moving off one line.. into a station.. and moving onto the other line. A system that would be highly inefficient unless you ran the lines at very low density because you can't risk cascading... and wouldn't really work for what you are proposing because of the inequal balance in route demands (in terms of volume for one route verse the other). You'd have to run a fraction of the vehicles you could run if they were just separate lines to start with.

Again because it's a cable system where all vehicles move at the same rate and together, such a random route system isn't really viable. When you have vehicles that can move independently of each other.. then these sort of add/leave notions start to become theory.

It's certainly not without its challenges, but it is solvable.

A computer system would easily be able to compute when to drop a loaded car on the line or to drop one in transit to a destination onto the line.

The mechanics would potentially be complicated, but it certainly could be done.

Obviously they were wanting a cheap, ready to go, off the shelf solution here, but my comment is valid nonetheless.

 

[Kamikaze]

It's certainly not without its challenges, but it is solvable.

A computer system would easily be able to compute when to drop a loaded car on the line or to drop one in transit to a destination onto the line.

The mechanics would potentially be complicated, but it certainly could be done.

Obviously they were wanting a cheap, ready to go, off the shelf solution here, but my comment is valid nonetheless.

A system with switching is possible, yes. Absolutely. Practical? A bit less. Because in addition to just fitting the cabins, you'd have to figure out a way for the guests to choose their destination while in transit and somehow communicate that to the switches as it comes into the station. And you're still going to need a station, since thats where all the hardware to move everything would need to go. Then you'd also need a spot at that station for people to load, since guests at the resorts have to get onto the system somewhere.

The result of a full merging system would probably just be that the line runs slowly at all times so the cabins can be fit in when they come into the merge point. Just like a zipper merge on the highway, except without those <blank> that have to go all the way as far as they can before they merge in.

 

[Creathir]

A system with switching is possible, yes. Absolutely. Practical? A bit less. Because in addition to just fitting the cabins, you'd have to figure out a way for the guests to choose their destination while in transit and somehow communicate that to the switches as it comes into the station. And you're still going to need a station, since thats where all the hardware to move everything would need to go. Then you'd also need a spot at that station for people to load, since guests at the resorts have to get onto the system somewhere.

You only need one station which is complex in this case, where all 3 lines meet.

The others could operate in the standard gondola fashion.

As to choosing the destination, a small touch screen could easily do this, or for that matter the CM could put it in on a tablet as they board.

 

[Kamikaze]

You only need one station which is complex in this case, where all 3 lines meet.

The others could operate in the standard gondola fashion.

As to choosing the destination, a small touch screen could easily do this, or for that matter the CM could put it in on a tablet as they board.

Yes, choosing the destination is easy. Communicating to the system which cabin to switch at what time is more difficult. Even on the NYC Subway, they don't do full automated switching.

 

[Club34]

you are talking about a gondola switching system? where does one of these exist?

 

[Creathir]

you are talking about a gondola switching system? where does one of these exist?

I'm not sure if one exists or not, but just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it's not possible.

WEDway did not exist before Disney, many of the ride mechanics did not exist before Disney. They let their imagineers design and create new and exciting things in the past.

Nothing stopping them from doing so in the future.

 

[Kamikaze]

I'm not sure if one exists or not, but just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it's not possible.

WEDway did not exist before Disney, many of the ride mechanics did not exist before Disney. They let their imagineers design and create new and exciting things in the past.

Nothing stopping them from doing so in the future.

As I said when he brought it up, it is certainly not impossible, but its highly impractical and unnecessary.

 

[mmascari]

If the system was somehow built like that, the whole thing would need to be operated as one system. If one station needed to be stopped for whatever reason, the whole system would need to be stopped.

This is exactly the problem. A line has a specific number of cars at specific spacing. Trying to manage between two lines messes with this. There's no easy way to solve the issue that doesn't also tie all operations of both lines (speed, stopping, loading) into a single system.

And, we've already heard that even switching out 2 cars, 1 for 1, on a single line isn't something that's normally done without stopping the line.

The way its going to be, you will only transfer at most one time no matter where you are coming from or going. The only thing that concerns be is the DRR station, and how it will impact people trying to board there if cabins are already full, assuming they don't make everyone get off there.

Radios, phone lines, buttons on control panels, cell phones, something like that solves the issue. If DDR has a line, the cast member at DDR communicates with a cast member at the earlier station and they let an empty car go through. If it's a big line, they let a bunch go through, probably every other one for a bunch. It does mean that getting on at DDR could have a short wait, however long it takes an empty car to get there from the prior station. When the system isn't totally full, there will be empty cars, or guests getting off at DDR creating empty cars. At crush time, they just need to create that same empty space artificially.

I expect every car to detach, move slowly through DDR, doors open and close, reattach to the line, every time they transit through DDR independent of if you get off or stay on. In fact, at the Boardwalk turning station, I expect every car to detach, move slowly through the turn, reattach. Without the doors opening, but with the ability to override and open the doors in an emergency evacuation if needed, with cast member support. In fact, the cast member at the turning station will probably be the most bored member of the team with nothing to do when things are working normally.

 

[danlb_2000]

Whose willing to bet unless you stay at one of the homes resorts it will be a a $10 fee? Lol

Part of what is paying for this system is the reduction in busses, so they aren't going to want to do anything that would discourage people from using the system.

 

[flynnibus]

It's certainly not without its challenges, but it is solvable.

A computer system would easily be able to compute when to drop a loaded car on the line or to drop one in transit to a destination onto the line.

The mechanics would potentially be complicated, but it certainly could be done.

Obviously they were wanting a cheap, ready to go, off the shelf solution here, but my comment is valid nonetheless.

You glossed over the part where the concept breaks down due to the unbalanced loads and the reduced efficiencies. Nevermind the additional mechanical complexities that undermine the basic premise of SIMPLICITY of the system for high reliability. Basically... it's an idea that doesn't actually gain you anything and actually moves you backwards.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

Let me fix that for you

I'm not sure if one exists or not, but just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it's not possible.

WEDway did not exist before Disney, many of the ride mechanics did not exist before Disney. They used to let their imagineers design and create new and exciting things in the past.

A lack of visionary leadership and their blind commitment to the almighty share price is stopping them from doing so in the future.

 

[Creathir]

You glossed over the part where the concept breaks down due to the unbalanced loads and the reduced efficiencies. Nevermind the additional mechanical complexities that undermine the basic premise of SIMPLICITY of the system for high reliability. Basically... it's an idea that doesn't actually gain you anything and actually moves you backwards.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

How is there unbalanced load?

There can be a pool of empty cabins ready to insert as needed for when a cabin needs to go down the line and there is not a transfer incoming.

All issues easily resolved with a computer controlled system.

 

[NormC]

Empty cabins are the opposite of efficient.

 

[Creathir]

Empty cabins are the opposite of efficient.

Empty cabins are going to happen with a system like this.

Park open or park close, the cabins are almost always going to be empty in one direction.

 

[NormC]

Empty cabins are going to happen with a system like this.

Park open or park close, the cabins are almost always going to be empty in one direction.

Correct, but that is completely different than purposely inserting empty units.

 

[Bender123]

Part of what is paying for this system is the reduction in busses, so they aren't going to want to do anything that would discourage people from using the system.

A lot of people seem to really miss this point...a bus can transport 50ish people at a time and require a massive amount of time on the road, where people aren't moving at either end. The gondola will be much more efficient at moving people before you get to the costs...

Outside the cost of the buses, you have gas, driver pay, dispatcher pay, maintenance on a fleet, etc...The fleet of buses cost a ton for each resort. Cutting bus from CBR/POP/Animation will be a huge cost ongoing savings. You need one or two staff at each platform, maintenance and a massive reduction in fuel costs. In the end, it will also reduce wait times for transport (both at the depot and en rote), so you get more satisfied customers.

 

[Kamikaze]

Empty cabins are the opposite of efficient.

True. But it isn't an issue for a system thats continuous. Much less of an issue to send 4-5 empty cabins over an empty bus.

 

[Bender123]

True. But it isn't an issue for a system thats continuous. Much less of an issue to send 4-5 empty cabins over an empty bus.

Much less annoying to those at the station too...It isn't a big deal to see an empty cabin leave when you are just getting to the station, because you know another is a few seconds behind it.

When you get to an empty bus platform to see your bus with only 4 people on it pulling away...that's a whole new level of frustration.