New Fast Pass Testing at Splash Mountain?

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Exactly! :sohappy:

The only people "tearing their heads off" (well, one person), was on the "enforce the second time" side of the debate!

Completely agreed. I can get used to a change in fastpass return time policy. Honestly, for every one fastpass I use late now, there are 2 fastpasses that I don't bother using and keep as souvenirs, so I feel like it evens out anyway. But I can accept if the policy changes. What I don't like is the feeling of being attacked on here for something that (even in the past month) CM's have actually encouraged to me and other guests.

 

[boufa]

What is xpass?

It is a potential future version of fastpass that DOES NOT IN ANY WAY ACTUALLY EXIST... but the internet fan community has been making up thoughts on what it might become then using those rumors and made up rules of that non-existant program to complain about it already.

XPASS is as real as the monsters inc coaster. No one in their right mind would complain about the details of the mosters inc coaster, since it does not yet exist, so why xpass. It was a footnote in an investors speach. I bet if we went back to previous investors speeches we would find lots and lots of stuff that does not yet (and likely never will) exist. (coaster inside spaceship earth anyone!)

Xpass is just 1 step forward from being blue sky.

 

[G00fyDad]

Not if you come 8 hours later and the cast member says "you can't come in". In that instance, both the FastPass line and the Standby line will get in faster.

I agree. :sohappy:

 

[BigTxEars]

Completely agreed. I can get used to a change in fastpass return time policy. Honestly, for every one fastpass I use late now, there are 2 fastpasses that I don't bother using and keep as souvenirs, so I feel like it evens out anyway. But I can accept if the policy changes. What I don't like is the feeling of being attacked on here for something that (even in the past month) CM's have actually encouraged to me and other guests.

I think that folks are just saying that since there is a return time listed the FP is valid those times, use outside of those times is therefor "breaking" the rules....

This is consistent with many factors in everyday life. Coupons at the grocery store are valid until the date listed, sales at the mall are good until the times listed, your movie tickets are good for the time show on them and not for a movie that starts 4 hours latter at the theater, your airline tickets are good for the flight that takes off at the times listed and not hours latter, you football ticket is good for the game listed and not next weeks game etc....

It is a mindset that many have and it has it's validation in everyday life IMO. I think even Disney at some point believed in it or they would not have printed the return time on the FP at all.

I have NSSHP tickets for the 13th of September, I am not going to skip it and try to use them on the 16th of September as I know they will not work. I am not going to show up 1 hour late for my ADR and expect them to be honored. I think FP fall into this same category in many peoples minds.

Heck just because the police do not pull you over for driving 50mph in a 45mph zone does not mean you are not speeding, so just because you can use your FP late does not mean in itself mean you are not breaking the "rules"

As I said I think they should be enforced but am not militant about it, I do think the folks saying it is rule breaking have a valid case to argue...

 

[G00fyDad]

I think that folks are just saying that since there is a return time listed the FP is valid those times, use outside of those times is therefor "breaking" the rules....

This is consistent with many factors in everyday life. Coupons at the grocery store are valid until the date listed, sales at the mall are good until the times listed, your movie tickets are good for the time show on them and not for a movie that starts 4 hours latter at the theater, your airline tickets are good for the flight that takes off at the times listed and not hours latter, you football ticket is good for the game listed and not next weeks game etc....

It is a mindset that many have and it has it's validation in everyday life IMO. I think even Disney at some point believed in it or they would not have printed the return time on the FP at all.

I have NSSHP tickets for the 13th of September, I am not going to skip it and try to use them on the 16th of September as I know they will not work. I am not going to show up 1 hour late for my ADR and expect them to be honored. I think FP fall into this same category in many peoples minds.

Heck just because the police do not pull you over for driving 50mph in a 45mph zone does not mean you are not speeding, so just because you can use your FP late does not mean in itself mean you are not breaking the "rules"

As I said I think they should be enforced but am not militant about it, I do think the folks saying it is rule breaking have a valid case to argue...

:sohappy:

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I think that folks are just saying that since there is a return time listed the FP is valid those times, use outside of those times is therefor "breaking" the rules....

This is consistent with many factors in everyday life. Coupons at the grocery store are valid until the date listed, sales at the mall are good until the times listed, your movie tickets are good for the time show on them and not for a movie that starts 4 hours latter at the theater, your airline tickets are good for the flight that takes off at the times listed and not hours latter, you football ticket is good for the game listed and not next weeks game etc....

I'm aware of examples in everyday life, and I'm also aware of ADR rules. But that's exactly the point. With ADR's, you usually receive a 15-minute grace period. After that, you lose the table. Done. That's the policy. With fastpass, your "grace period" basically goes until park closing. Honestly, as recently as this past Monday morning, I heard a CM at Kali River Rapids actually suggesting to people that they save their fastpasses for later, when it gets even hotter outside. CM's were suggesting it, not only saying it's allowed, but also encouraged. So I'm not going to feel guilty about listening to them. I'm not trying to use a coupon at 9:00 PM even though it expired at 2:00 PM. I'm not showing up an hour late for a restaurant reservation and expecting to still be seated. I'm doing something that has been completely acceptable for years. When it's not acceptable, I'll deal with it and move on. I'll probably just keep a few more FP's as souvenirs if I don't feel like using them within the window. Until then, I don't see how my actions make me a rule-breaker.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

And using the real world example of speeding...

If I'm speeding and a cop pulls me over, the cop will likely tell me what I did wrong and give me either a warning or a ticket. The cop therefore discouraged me from speeding because it's against the law. Even if I'm not pulled over, there's always the possibility that I might be pulled over, which I know means I did something I shouldn't have done. I feel guilty about speeding, I know it's something I shouldn't do. Other things I would feel guilty about (but I don't actually do): re-using a mug, double-booking ADR's, pool hopping, etc.

Whenever I use a late fastpass, CM's have no problem with it. I've asked if it's okay and been told it's perfectly fine. I've even seen people encouraged by CM's to use FP's after the return window ends. If Disney felt that it was wrong to use a late FP, then the CM's should say something about that somewhere, anywhere. But until this point, I've basically been encouraged by Disney's front line to use fastpass as I please, as long as I don't try to use it early. Therefore, I don't have the feeling of doing something wrong that I might get from speeding or pool hopping.

I honestly think it's silly that using a fastpass outside of the return window is being compared to disgraceful, immoral actions. If it's so wrong, then tell the CM's to say it's wrong. Change the policy, and then it's wrong. Until then, why should I feel guilty?

 

[flynnibus]

the rides are designed to let x amount of people on a day. it doesnt matter if your on time or not only x amount of people will get fast passes each day

It does matter - FP is a system designed to defer load and spread it out. If you don't spread it out, it creates surges in load and since you have a constant ride capacity.. surge in load = surge in wait. Since the disney policy is to allow a high ratio of FP to standby.. standby are the ones who suffer more when a abnormal # of FP riders return in a short period.

. As it stands, it is officially not "against the rules" in any way, shape, or form, to show up after your return window has expired.

When EVERY manager and CM you've asked over a 5 year period tells you it's NOT "against the rules" to use them anytime between the first time on the FP and park close, your experience confirms this, and it's more convenient/preferable for you to use it at a time later than the "window" that just happened to be available when you were near the machines, I'd say that's a pretty good "excuse". You can't "break a rule" when the "rule" doesn't exist!

No - it's simply policy not to enforce it. Just like it may be policy for police to not ticket someone going less then 5mph over the limit. It's still against the rules, just not enforced.

With all due respect, I honestly don't think being "late" causes the harm that some feel it does. And I am not singling you out, this goes for everyone who feels the "latecomers" are hurting the system

When done in large numbers.. yes it does.

So, for the 2 PM to 3 PM hour, let's say only 300 of those show up. This means that EVERYONE in the standby line at this time is actually getting on 200 people EARLIER than they would have if all those people would have been "on time", like the sticklers want them to be. Everyone who uses standby is actually BENEFITING from people being "late", at each and every part of the day that not all FPs allotted through that time have been used yet

This logic is flawed and there is no 'net benefit' - it's simply a shift of who benefits to who suffers. Instead of the person in the scheduled return time waiting, someone later in the day waits. There is no net decrease in wait time.

So, when do the other 200 "late" people come back? They may trickle in throughout the day, or they could theoretically all show up at once. But until all 200 use their FP, everyone in standby is still getting on the ride EARLIER than they would have had all those people been "on time".

The return people are already diffused by the fact they have a wide return window and the window is rolling with a finite capacity per window.

Or in other words, if I use a Peter Pan's Flight Fastpass at 11 PM at night, that I got at 10 AM in the morning simply because that's when I rode it the first time and was next to the machine, but the return time was for noon and I didn't want to backtrack to Fantasyland at that time because I was in Tomorrowland then, and I was getting the FP for a possible late night "encore ride" anyway - this means that EVERY person who rode the ride standby between noon and 11 PM BENEFITED by one person from me not being there "on time"

You don't benefit from someone not riding so far ahead of you that the people in front of you didn't actually wait for that person's use of the ride. The impact of a rider on your wait time is limited by the ride's throughput to eat through the queue. If the ride eats 600ppl an hour... if there are 300 people in line ahead of you.. your wait will be 1/2 hr and no matter what how many people rode or did not ride earlier in the day. All that matters is how many people are in front of you right now, and the ride's capacity.

In my eyes you only solidified my argument. Once again, there's nothing on the FP about not accepting late arrivals. They do address early arrivals. There's no document saying that it's a rule, at least not that I've seen. As you said, speeding is against the law, ie; it's in writing and a known fact that you can look up and prove. As far as I know, there's no such document regarding Fastpasses. I'm not arguing what I think, I'm arguing about what is plain as day. In court this would be a document, and this document doesn't say they won't take a late arrival. Thus you wouldn't be able to prove someone was doing anything wrong by showing up late.

The fact it says no early arrivals does not mean they allow late.. the pass also says 'between' for your return time. Simply because they added ADDITIONAL information about early does not mean anything not falling under that condition is allowed. The language of the ticket is very plain and explict. The only ambiguity is in the company's enforcement of it.

From a wait impact - there is no difference if a person actually comes back early vs late.. the company has simply chosen to deny early while giving customers a lax enforcement on returns. There are legit reasons to be late.. there really is no reason to be early and have to ride now. This is simply the path the company has taken for enforcement.

NO IT WONT! What school did you go to in order to learn your math or common deduction skills? The CONTINUOUS standby and fastpass line at Space Mountain will have a net same wait time whether i come within my window or 8 hours later???

No they won't - see explanation above. The only thing that matters on your wait time is people in line in front of you from the time you enter the line (including FP people let in ahead of you). People already processed through the ride have no impact on your wait time. And the people in front of you now, is not directly related to if people rode earlier in the day or not. Your claim would only be valid if the # of people in front of you were predetermined and fixed -- such as everyone queuing up at the same time, or everyone entering the queue at a predetermined, predicatable rate. But neither of those happen.

The ride's capacity is fixed - your wait is not. It's a function only of the queue in front of you and the ride's throughput.

 

[BigTxEars]

I'm aware of examples in everyday life, and I'm also aware of ADR rules. But that's exactly the point. With ADR's, you usually receive a 15-minute grace period. After that, you lose the table. Done. That's the policy. With fastpass, your "grace period" basically goes until park closing. Honestly, as recently as this past Monday morning, I heard a CM at Kali River Rapids actually suggesting to people that they save their fastpasses for later, when it gets even hotter outside. CM's were suggesting it, not only saying it's allowed, but also encouraged. So I'm not going to feel guilty about listening to them. I'm not trying to use a coupon at 9:00 PM even though it expired at 2:00 PM. I'm not showing up an hour late for a restaurant reservation and expecting to still be seated. I'm doing something that has been completely acceptable for years. When it's not acceptable, I'll deal with it and move on. I'll probably just keep a few more FP's as souvenirs if I don't feel like using them within the window. Until then, I don't see how my actions make me a rule-breaker.

It's all perception.

Some would say your "coupon" does indeed expire at 2pm because it says so right on the "coupon" itself. Of course the "coupon" is a FP in this case. Some would say since the "store" still accepts the coupon it is not expired, the "store" being WDW in this case. At the end of the debate in theory the first group is correct but in practice the second groups is correct.

If your FP say 1pm-2pm it is expired at 2pm, rather the CM takes it latter, encourages or insist you use it latter it is stilled expired by definition, just not reality. :ROFLOL:

And if it is "OK" to show up late why is it not "OK" to show up early with a FP? Even by a few minutes

All perception in the end IMO. A perception that Disney could resolve by enforcing or removing the times. :hammer: But then what the heck would we be talking about right now.......

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

It's all perception.

Some would say your "coupon" does indeed expire at 2pm because it says so right on the "coupon" itself. Of course the "coupon" is a FP in this case. Some would say since the "store" still accepts the coupon it is not expired, the "store" being WDW in this case. At the end of the debate in theory the first group is correct but in practice the second groups is correct.

If your FP say 1pm-2pm it is expired at 2pm, rather the CM takes it latter, encourages or insist you use it latter it is stilled expired by definition, just not reality. :ROFLOL:

All perception in the end IMO. A perception that Disney could resolve by enforcing or removing the times. :hammer:

Perception, reality...what I don't like is the notion that I'm immoral for using a fastpass late. If I ask a CM if pool hopping or mug re-using is okay, they'd say no. When I ask a CM if using a fastpass after the return window ends is okay, they always say yes. It's even been encouraged without my asking. That's why I don't like the suggestion that I'm doing something immoral or wrong. If Disney really thinks it's wrong and hurts the experience of other guests, I'd like to hear that from a cast member in the park, instead of just people here.

 

[the-reason14]

Quote)My understanding was that Disney originally changed the fastpass to allow you to come back after the time window to enhance the experience of the odd few guests who might miss the slot (Dinner reservations etc) as with anything though it seems to have been abused. Replies on this board show most guests are just turning up whenever they want as a matter of course.

I don't understand some peoples thinking. It's the same with the soda refills.(Quote

Using an "expired" fastpass is not the same as "stealing" soda. I don't understand you're reasoning with that.

I can see it causing some short term problems, but I think overall it'll help queue flow.

I personally never knew you could use FPs after the allotted time, so I always did my best to come back within the proper slot. If I missed it, I'd just rip that FP up and move on...and that's what I'll continue to do.

If that's convenient for you and that's how you want to vacation, then more power to you. I like to vacation by using fastpasses when I want, it's convenient for me.

 

[BigTxEars]

Perception, reality...what I don't like is the notion that I'm immoral for using a fastpass late. If I ask a CM if pool hopping or mug re-using is okay, they'd say no. When I ask a CM if using a fastpass after the return window ends is okay, they always say yes. It's even been encouraged without my asking. That's why I don't like the suggestion that I'm doing something immoral or wrong. If Disney really thinks it's wrong and hurts the experience of other guests, I'd like to hear that from a cast member in the park, instead of just people here.

I do not think anyone is saying anyone is acting immoral, that is a wee bit beyond rule breaking in my book anyways

I have been known to 'forget" about that box of Junior Mints in my wife's purse when we go into the movies, I am breaking the rules but I am not immoral because of it in my book :ROFLOL:

I do understand your point but in reality this is the internet and we are all going to get "called" and "accused" of things. You (like all of us) are nothing more than screen names and that is why I do not take any of it very seriously :ROFLOL:

I mean how much weight does a debate between "DonladDoleWhip" and "BigTXEars" have outside of this forums, we both need tougher sounding names by the way :ROFLOL: Not exactly up there with tonight MMA fight or the next political primary debate

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I do not think anyone is saying anyone is acting immoral, that is a wee bit beyond rule breaking in my book anyways

I have been known to 'forget" about that box of Junior Mints in my wife's purse when we go into the movies, I am breaking the rules but I am not immoral because of it in my book :ROFLOL:

Still, I don't think that example is comparable. If a worker at the theater knew about your junior mints, you would probably be asked to throw them out before entering. It's clearly not allowed. Using a fastpass after the return window ends is allowed, because you have to get past a CM to do so, and the CM has the final say on whether you're allowed to enter with your pass or not. I agree - in the grand scheme of things, it's trivial, like your box of junior mints. That doesn't mean I feel okay with doing something wrong. If it's wrong, the CM's should say so and not permit it (since they clearly see the time on your ticket), just as a movie theater employee wouldn't let you in if your non-concession stand snack was in plain sight.

 

[BigTxEars]

Still, I don't think that example is comparable. If a worker at the theater knew about your junior mints, you would probably be asked to throw them out before entering. It's clearly not allowed. Using a fastpass after the return window ends is allowed, because you have to get past a CM to do so, and the CM has the final say on whether you're allowed to enter with your pass or not. I agree - in the grand scheme of things, it's trivial, like your box of junior mints. That doesn't mean I feel okay with doing something wrong. If it's wrong, the CM's should say so and not permit it (since they clearly see the time on your ticket), just as a movie theater employee wouldn't let you in if your non-concession stand snack was in plain sight.

My Junior Mint example was to try and show that I do not think using a FP beyond it's widow is immoral. I was not really trying to compare it to using the "expired" FP.

I guess we will have to see what WDW does with FP times in the future. It really has little to no bearing on my trip next month IMO. I will get and use FPs

I still say WDW knows much better than me how to run the parks so I will defer to their expert opinion They are never going to make everyone happy so they can just do the best that they can, and I am fine with that.

I should have went with "BigTxTeeth" instead of "BigTxEars" it sounds much tougher.

May I suggest "DonaldDoleGonnaWhipYourButt" for you? :ROFLOL:

 

[_Scar]

Still, I don't think that example is comparable. If a worker at the theater knew about your junior mints, you would probably be asked to throw them out before entering. It's clearly not allowed. Using a fastpass after the return window ends is allowed, because you have to get past a CM to do so, and the CM has the final say on whether you're allowed to enter with your pass or not. I agree - in the grand scheme of things, it's trivial, like your box of junior mints. That doesn't mean I feel okay with doing something wrong. If it's wrong, the CM's should say so and not permit it (since they clearly see the time on your ticket), just as a movie theater employee wouldn't let you in if your non-concession stand snack was in plain sight.

I don't think movie workers get paid enough to start an altercation over some junior mints, and I don't think they'd say anything anyways. It's almost exactly comparable to Fast-passes in that regard.

There'd be no way to fix the FP problem other than getting rid of FP all together.

 

[BigTxEars]

I don't think movie workers get paid enough to start an altercation over some junior mints, and I don't think they'd say anything anyways. It's almost exactly comparable to Fast-passes in that regard.

There'd be no way to fix the FP problem other than getting rid of FP all together.

What about that Seinfeld episode where Kramer stuck the cappuccino in his pants to sneak it into the movies and got caught when it spilt and burnt his........he was kicked out of the movies by the usher :ROFLOL:

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I don't think movie workers get paid enough to start an altercation over some junior mints, and I don't think they'd say anything anyways. It's almost exactly comparable to Fast-passes in that regard.

There'd be no way to fix the FP problem other than getting rid of FP all together.

My local movie theater is on the fifth floor of the mall. One time, I went downstairs to get something from Cold Stone Creamery, and then I went up to go see a movie. I wasn't allowed in because the Cold Stone Creamery wasn't part of the movie theater's concession stand; if I wanted to enjoy ice cream with my movie, I would have to buy Ben & Jerry's from the movie concession stand. It's a mistake I made once (not realizing it wasn't allowed, since the movie theater and Cold Stone were part of the same mall) but never again, because it was actually enforced. On the other hand, I've had CM's suggest that I use my FP later if I feel like it. Completely different. If there's truly something wrong with using FP's late, and it's truly against the rules, then the cast members need to say that, just as they would say it's not okay to pool hop or re-use a mug from a past trip.

 

[G00fyDad]

I do not think anyone is saying anyone is acting immoral, that is a wee bit beyond rule breaking in my book anyways

I dont remember anyone calling them all immoral. That is just how they saw the opinions of the rest of us. It is a rule, yet CMs are telling them that it is okay. Fine. That makes what they are doing perfectly fine. I was never disagreeing with that. Actually, I was never disagreeing with any of it. LOL I just stated that I felt like it was a good thing that Disney would be enforcing this rule and stop the bending of it. That's when they all came unglued and started the personal attacks. Watch, because of this statement I am sure they'll do the same thing, again. :ROFLOL: If not then it will be the first time they have not had a snarky, smart, and snide comment about another poster's opinion or what they try to turn around and call an attack on thier morality.

Actually, I think the whole thing is hilarious. Before I set them all to ignore I was sharing some of thier comments with others online (the whole conversations actually) and it was a good laugh for all of us to see them get all indignant and upset. But alas, that got old.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I dont remember anyone calling them all immoral. That is just how they saw the opinions of the rest of us. It is a rule, yet CMs are telling them that it is okay. Fine. That makes what they are doing perfectly fine. I was never disagreeing with that. Actually, I was never disagreeing with any of it. LOL I just stated that I felt like it was a good thing that Disney would be enforcing this rule and stop the bending of it. That's when they all came unglued and started the personal attacks. Watch, because of this statement I am sure they'll do the same thing, again. :ROFLOL: If not then it will be the first time they have not had a snarky, smart, and snide comment about another poster's opinion or what they try to turn around and call an attack on thier morality.

Actually, I think the whole thing is hilarious. Before I set them all to ignore I was sharing some of thier comments with others online (the whole conversations actually) and it was a good laugh for all of us to see them get all indignant and upset. But alas, that got old.

Your provocative, harassing posts where you did make such statements were deleted at about 12:15 PM by a moderator. So while your posts are no longer visible for everyone to read, it's quite convenient for you to change your story now that your completely unacceptable comments have been deleted.

And no, I don't think I'm breaking a rule because cast members do not encourage rule breaking. I've seen cast members putting a stop to many things: no running, no walking around without a shirt on, etc. But I've been completely encouraged to use fastpass at my leisure if it's after my return time. So I don't care whether you're using "rule breaking" or "immoral" as the phrase of the day; based on CM actions, I don't think I'm guilty of either.

And re. the last paragraph of his post clearly has nothing to do with the topic. It's just mockery at this point.

 

[BigTxEars]

My local movie theater is on the fifth floor of the mall. One time, I went downstairs to get something from Cold Stone Creamery, and then I went up to go see a movie. I wasn't allowed in because the Cold Stone Creamery wasn't part of the movie theater's concession stand; if I wanted to enjoy ice cream with my movie, I would have to buy Ben & Jerry's from the movie concession stand. It's a mistake I made once (not realizing it wasn't allowed, since the movie theater and Cold Stone were part of the same mall) but never again, because it was actually enforced. On the other hand, I've had CM's suggest that I use my FP later if I feel like it. Completely different. If there's truly something wrong with using FP's late, and it's truly against the rules, then the cast members need to say that, just as they would say it's not okay to pool hop or re-use a mug from a past trip.

I live in Texas and the theaters around here do not allow outside food in. When I was stationed in California the theaters there did. I remember people bringing whole pizzas in the movies with them...:ROFLOL:

I did get "caught" here once...we had bought the kids some candy at the candy store in the mall and we were not allowed to bring it in the movies when they saw the bags from the candy store. I "ran" it back out to the car....well I stuck it in the pockets of my coat and returned and entered the movies Of course I stilled had to buy $20+ of popcorn and sodas :ROFLOL:

I am a rule breaker but I am not immoral for doing that IMO.