New Fast Pass Testing at Splash Mountain?

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I agree that advanced FP's will be dumb. But getting a FP an hour before your time, when you are at the park, shouldnt be difficult to plan around.

With the new reservation system, it sounds like that's exactly what's going to happen. And like with the current fastpass system, if you don't use the system and plan around it, you'll have to settle for longer waits.

As it stands, it is officially not "against the rules" in any way, shape, or form, to show up after your return window has expired.

I'm not sure I can ever see this working. Where do you draw the line of "how late is too late?" or "what excuses can be considered valid and what can't?" The only way I can see them making this work without receiving tons, literally tons of complaints would be to increase the return window - maybe give you two hours instead of one.

Agreed. It's not against the rules now, so it's certainly not due to one's "brightness" that they don't return during their FP window. If anything, they realized it was okay to return later, so they spent that hour doing what they actually felt like doing instead of rushing back to get on a ride. I say that's a good thing.

Agreed on the window - if I have to decide months in advance what ride I want to do, a longer return window would be better. One hour just doesn't seem like enough - I'd like to allow more room to fit in another ride or have a meal if I'm hungry.

 

[David S.]

How is this even an issue? It's not like Disney gives you a FP and randomly pages you like if your waiting for a table at a busy restaurant. The time's are clearly printed, and the times are clearly stated before you even GET your FP. There are no reasonable excuses (unless emergency) to miss your FP time window.

When EVERY manager and CM you've asked over a 5 year period tells you it's NOT "against the rules" to use them anytime between the first time on the FP and park close, your experience confirms this, and it's more convenient/preferable for you to use it at a time later than the "window" that just happened to be available when you were near the machines, I'd say that's a pretty good "excuse". You can't "break a rule" when the "rule" doesn't exist!

That sucks for you, then. As it stands, it is officially not "against the rules" in any way, shape, or form, to show up after your return window has expired.

Precisely! :sohappy:

And, as much as I would hate for this to turn into another "is Fastpass an effective system?" thread, its already on its way there, so... that said, as much as people on here don't want to admit it or take the time to understand it, not enforcing the return window can and DOES grind the standby line to a halt sometimes.

With all due respect, I honestly don't think being "late" causes the harm that some feel it does. And I am not singling you out, this goes for everyone who feels the "latecomers" are hurting the system. And I appreciate the fact that you pointed out being "late" is NOT "against the rules"!

I don't know how many FPs are given out an hour, and I know it varies by attraction, expected attendence, and other factors, but this will be a hypothetical example anyway. Let's say for my example ride, that it's 500.

So, for the 2 PM to 3 PM hour, let's say only 300 of those show up. This means that EVERYONE in the standby line at this time is actually getting on 200 people EARLIER than they would have if all those people would have been "on time", like the sticklers want them to be. Everyone who uses standby is actually BENEFITING from people being "late", at each and every part of the day that not all FPs allotted through that time have been used yet. They just don't notice it, because they haven't been "held up" by it. So this time they are GAINING by the FP's not being "on time" goes unnoticed. But the fact of the matter is, had those 200 people showed up during their "window", the standby folks in the queue between 2 and 3 would have had to wait LONGER.

So, when do the other 200 "late" people come back? They may trickle in throughout the day, or they could theoretically all show up at once. But until all 200 use their FP, everyone in standby is still getting on the ride EARLIER than they would have had all those people been "on time".

Even if all the "latecomers" show up after the 3 PM parade, they are reclaiming their rightful spot in line. This may grind the standby line to a halt for a little while, and people in standby might feel like they are being "held up" by them, but the reality is had these "latecomers" been "on time", they would have STILL ridden the ride BEFORE these people in standby, and as a result, the standby line would have been more backed up when these people getting "held up" entered. But the standby people would have gotten on the ride NO EARLIER had all the FPs been "on time". In fact, even if the standby people are "grinded to a halt" and "held up" by a bunch of FPs returning "late", as long as there are still SOME unused FPs (for that time and earlier) that haven't returned yet, they are STILL getting on the ride quicker than they would have if EACH AND EVERY FP allotted by the machines for valid entry up to that point had returned precisely on time!

So, I feel that the "latecomers" are truly not hurting anyone; for each FP that is used late means that is one less person that standby had to wait behind all day up until the time that the FP holder uses their pass, which then equalizes the "late" FP user's position relative to all standby riders behind them.

Or in other words, if I use a Peter Pan's Flight Fastpass at 11 PM at night, that I got at 10 AM in the morning simply because that's when I rode it the first time and was next to the machine, but the return time was for noon and I didn't want to backtrack to Fantasyland at that time because I was in Tomorrowland then, and I was getting the FP for a possible late night "encore ride" anyway - this means that EVERY person who rode the ride standby between noon and 11 PM BENEFITED by one person from me not being there "on time". By presenting my pass at 11 PM, I am reclaiming my place in line, and those riding after that get on exactly when they would have, relative to my ride, had I been "on time".

Lastly, I can't say this is always true, but in my experience, whenever I see a FP queue extremely backed up with "latecomers", such as Space Mountain, this has usually been due to the ride being DOWN one or more times throughout the day, and large numbers of people not being able to ride "on time" even if they wanted to!

PS. This post is not intended to be argumentative, but I wanted to use logic and math to show that statistically, being late doesn't damage the system. And as long as the unwritten policy, confirmed to me by any CMs and managers that I ask, is that they are accepted "late", I will not feel guilty about using them "late" whenever it is convenient and to my advantage to do so!

 

[AEfx]

I personally think that this is the way that it should have always been done, since the system is designed that way. I understand why Disney does it the way they do, but that doesn't make the system very effective if too many people come outside their window.

Supposedly, though, they build those averages into the formula to take it into account.

That said, I don't see how they can get strict on it - as they have been doing it for almost a decade to begin with, and it would just waste so much time in arguing with people in general. There are valid reasons to miss them - i.e. you have an ADR and they don't seat you for an hour, when you had planned for a FP right after lunch, etc.

 

[Neverland]

As an attractions CM, I don't think late FPs back up the system........ Often. Sometimes, yes, it does make the FP line twice as long as it should be. Each attraction has a specific, calculated number of passes it gives out for each hour window (9:05 - 10:05, 5:40 - 6:40, etc.). So if 30 late FPs show up within five minutes of each other (which does happen sometimes), that's 30 more people the system isn't set up to handle for that window. Generally it's not that much of a problem, but in certain circumstances, it can be a giant wrench in the works.

Early FPs are another problem. Many people show up like 20 minutes early and expect to get in line, and the thing is, a lot of CMs let them. Another thing that happens is that people come up with excuses, such as 'my kid's falling asleep and can't wait another hour to go on this ride', 'we have a reservation in 30 minutes; we can't ride this in two hours', 'we want to see the parade; we need to ride this NOW', etc. Most guests don't check the sign before getting a fastpass. The two most common questions are "If I get a fastpass, what time do I come back?" and "WHAT?? My fastpass says come back at 11:25??? Is that right??"

CMs are indeed slowly being told to be more strict. We're also trying out new standby/FP ratios. The FP system is definitely being revamped, if only a little.

Or in other words, if I use a Peter Pan's Flight Fastpass at 11 PM at night, that I got at 10 AM in the morning simply because that's when I rode it the first time and was next to the machine, but the return time was for noon and I didn't want to backtrack to Fantasyland at that time because I was in Tomorrowland then, and I was getting the FP for a possible late night "encore ride" anyway - this means that EVERY person who rode the ride standby between noon and 11 PM BENEFITED by one person from me not being there "on time". By presenting my pass at 11 PM, I am reclaiming my place in line, and those riding after that get on exactly when they would have, relative to my ride, had I been "on time".

It works both ways. If 50 people within an hour window don't show up, then yes, the standby line benefits a tiny bit. But if 50 people show up late, then standby is held up by those extra 50 people. And if the FP line gets backed up, the standby/FP ratio has to be temporarily made larger, and let in less standby people. IE if it's normally 10/50, it might be changed to 10/65 for half an hour. There are a lot more late guests than people think there are. Trust me, I see hundreds of FPs a day. People not using their fastpasses on time doesn't average out throughout the day; it causes spikes of activity/nonactivity. People enter attractions in waves. Certain times of the day, like after each parade, after the fireworks, and even after attractions like Philharmagic or Indiana Jones let out, tidal waves of people rush to attractions. If 200 people run to Pan Return after Wishes, and 100 of them have FPs from earlier in the day, then that causes an even bigger backup than there would have been from all the on-time people rushing to get in line after the fireworks. A higher number of guests enter the attraction during those peak times, which means a higher number of late FP users, too.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Actually, it is. It's already being talked to cast internally. As soon as the reservation system for FPs comes into play, they will be enforcing the window.

And I will be very glad about it. I never missed my window and it will even increase the value and funtionality of FP if they finally enforce it.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

I have never, ever, EVER missed my FP window. Why? It is clearly stated way in advanced so I plan around it accordingly. If people are not bright enough to time things correctly and they miss their FP window, then they need to stand in the stand-by line with everyone else. Period.

How is this even an issue? It's not like Disney gives you a FP and randomly pages you like if your waiting for a table at a busy restaurant. The time's are clearly printed, and the times are clearly stated before you even GET your FP. There are no reasonable excuses (unless emergency) to miss your FP time window.

Exactly my opinion. I never missed it either and I still had normally a relaxing vacation. I use FP throughout the day and they are actually an element that makes my stay relaxing because since FP was introduced I never again had a wait of 30, 45 or 60 minutes at the JC, PoTC, BTMR etc.

 

[nolatron]

I don't see them enforcing the return times. I mean especially when your window for return is 5 hours away. I mean come on they expect you to alter your dinner plans or whatever to make sure you get back within the window. Doubt this will happen.

You know what the return time is before you get a fast pass. If you see it's going to interfere with your plans, then you shouldn't be getting one.

It's your own fault if you get a FP when you already have "dinner plans or whatever".

 

[nolatron]

Sounds like a dumb waste of time to question guests on why they are late. Just creates unecessary conflict.

It's reservation time to return to line. I think guest should have to honor that time. If they miss it they need to wait in standy-by and get another FP if available and try again.

What happens when you show up 1, 2, or 3+ hours late for an dining reservation?

 

[nolatron]

Or in other words, if I use a Peter Pan's Flight Fastpass at 11 PM at night, that I got at 10 AM in the morning simply because that's when I rode it the first time and was next to the machine, but the return time was for noon and I didn't want to backtrack to Fantasyland at that time because I was in Tomorrowland then, and I was getting the FP for a possible late night "encore ride" anyway - this means that EVERY person who rode the ride standby between noon and 11 PM BENEFITED by one person from me not being there "on time". By presenting my pass at 11 PM, I am reclaiming my place in line, and those riding after that get on exactly when they would have, relative to my ride, had I been "on time"..

Right... but if I'm a 11PM fast pass holder, and you, a 10am FP holder show up both at 11:10pm. You're now making my FP wait time longer because you shouldn't be line at 11:10pm.

While you not getting in the FP line on time may benefit the Standy By line, it hurts the FP line when you do.

 

[KevinYee]

First, I think it's kind of cool that Space Mtn was mentioned as the place where surveys were being taken. Space-Orlando was the location of the very first FastPass test in 1999 (I happened to be on vacation there that day).

Second, I can see why Disney would want to roll out enforced windows only when xPass comes out. Probably the biggest reason (excuse?) people have for returning late to a FP window is that they had food reservations, and they couldn't help what the FP machine spit out to them at 10am. But if food and xPass were both reserved months ago, that rationale will disappear.

Third, I agree that despite the above, guest complaints will skyrocket like nobody's business... and I predict Disney will have to adjust somehow. Perhaps they'll fold and allow late return. But maybe they can tweak the system. I'm sure it alters the math to consider it, but what if they doubled the size of the return window?

 

[lentesta]

This sounds like they are figuring out the logistics of the "xPass" and whether or not planning fastpasses in before your trip would be feasible.

This. Although I hope they're being more systematic than that about collecting the data.

 

[Scuttle]

So what happens if you get stuck on the monorail system that is in horrible shape and miss your return window? I just think this is a horrible idea. The complaints are going to be piling in. It's really just bad customer service. Also I doubt CM will be strict on this anyway. I can't count the times they have let us in 5-10 minutes early. I also think it's a joke that resort guests get so many benefits. You pay 85 dollars to get into the park. Why should someone staying at the resort get more benefits that a day guest. They already have extra hours come on. Also if they are going to make this chance then they need to convert to a centralized fastpass distribution.

 

[WI DISNEY FAN]

Perhaps with the bracelets there will be a more broad time frame. What if they had a 4 hour block of time in which you could return? If people miss their time and complain Disney could just change the 4 hour block to later in the day or the next day.

 

[draybook]

The Fastpass does indeed have a window on it but the only thing it says about not accepting anyone is early arrivals. It says nothing about late arrivals. This is a flaw, or loophole if you will. That being said, I'll continue using fastpasses late as long as it's allowed. We strictly held to the windows on our first trip before I knew that you could go later. This has nothing to do with being "bright enough", as one poster put before.

As a matter of fact, we had PP FP's on the first trip and I was having a stress attack because we were in line to meet Ariel and almost missed our window and I didn't think we'd be allowed in the FP line.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Third, I agree that despite the above, guest complaints will skyrocket like nobody's business... and I predict Disney will have to adjust somehow. Perhaps they'll fold and allow late return.

I think the idea is not so much iron-fisted enforcement. But rather, encouragement at Fastpass DISTRIBUTION (not Return) that you need to come back during your window, and late FPs will not be accepted. If we can spread the word before people stick their park ticket in the machine, they might think twice about getting a FP they can't make on time.

Obviously there are going to be exceptions once people get to the line and they legitimately had an emergency come up that forced them to miss their window. I'm sure in situations like that, in the name of guest service, they will let that party into the line with the spiel that this is not standard practice. But word spreads fast in the park. And just like it spread quickly that FP attractions will take late FPs, it will spread just as quickly that we are no longer doing this and hopefully will prevent the system abusers that hoard FPs throughout the day, hit up all the non-FP attractions and then go on a FP attraction spree later in the day because they know their long expired FPs will still be accepted.

 

[boufa]

I find this conversation a complete riot! How dare Disney take away our free refills on our 3 decades old mugs, despite the well posted rules.... But in this case Disney should mount sniper nests on the rides to eliminate guests who would dare try to use a late fast pass. I'm all for Disney ridgedly enforcing a system that for 10 years they have publicly stated is not an actual rule. That even official guide books list as o.k. we complain that burned out light bulbs are bad show, but cast members standing around telling people no today on something that was 100% acceptable yesterday is not bad show?

And to many of the posters come with facts not insults. Refering to people who disagree with you as spoiled brats and cry babies does not add to the conversation. I will follow the rules that Disney puts out there. I do not reuse mugs, I do not pool hop, I do use my counter service credits any way I want (disney does not bother to seperate out kids v adults, I am certainly not going to weakly around the part with a note pad keeping track for myself). Which brings up another interesting point. So on counter service credits we are supposed ro self enforce a rule that Disney refuses to print on our reciepts or track for them selves. But on fast passes we are supposed to only follow the rule because it is printed on the ticket. So to be intellectually honest, if I follow what is printed on the fastpass then i can use as many children's cs credits for adult meals as I want. You might then fire back with, but Disney says that children must order off the adult menu, and I would answer Disney also says that the return window is not enforced. So which is it, do I get lots of adult food that I paid kids prices for, or do I get to come back to soarin late, because you cannot have it both ways.

 

[G00fyDad]

This. Although I hope they're being more systematic than that about collecting the data.

True. That would be no better than your local weather forecaster kicking open the back door, licking his finger, and sticking it in the air to see how cold it is.

So what happens if you get stuck on the monorail system that is in horrible shape and miss your return window?

I'm sure there will be exceptions made.

The complaints are going to be piling in.

The complaints are always pouring in. That's nothing new. P

Also I doubt CM will be strict on this anyway. I can't count the times they have let us in 5-10 minutes early.

I've never been allowed in early. Most people aren't. If you really were allowed in early then count yourself as lucky.

Also if they are going to make this change then they need to convert to a centralized fast pass distribution.

I wouldn't like a Central Fast Pass System but if Disney deemed it necessary I would deal with it.

 

[invader]

There's always the stand-by line.... :king:

 

[Brian Noble]

Someone mentioned that Disney could just start saying "too bad, so sad." They could but it would require a significant cultural change in the way TWDC thinks about "guest service." The first Rule in Disney's Guest Services Playbook is never say no unless you have to.

And, this is not just WDW culture; it is company wide. I just got off the Wonder, after cruising Alaska. I can't tell you the number of times one of the crew said, effectively: "This is Disney; we don't say no."

 

[Mansion Butler]

I think that the "x" amount is designed to be staggered over the course of a day. If 500 late fast passers all show up together, I sure would hate to be in the stand by line.

It's staggered so that FP will have a short wait. If everyone in a certain window doesn't come at their window, though, then standby ends up being shorter than intended. The result is still the number of people going through the ride that they want.

Later, when they come back, stand by will again be altered beyond intentions, this time longer. Result is still the X target being hit.