New Disneyland Parking Garage and Transportation Hub

[Darkbeer1]

It is expected as part of the replacement Hotel permitting process that the city will be gain some land to widen the road and add a sidewalk.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Currently this walk is impossible. There is no sidewalk south of the Quality Inn and no room in front of the West Coast University to add a sidewalk. Has there been discussion to modify Manchester?

Bingo! The widening of I-5 had many imperfect side effects, no matter how much it improved things overall. It had negative impacts on businesses from HoJos down to Bergstrom that were only partly mitigated. The lack of sidewalk you noted is emblematic of the kinds of changes that may be considered for Harbor Blvd. The problem with single-purpose-solutions such as this is that they can remove the area affected from traditional or organic forms and contexts of traffic flow. A major traffic artery is not a theme park route of travel. Just because most vehicle and pedestrian traffic through the area is resort-related doesn't mean that all of it is, or that all who traverse the Anaheim Resort Area comprehend that customary norms don't apply.

Why should everyone traveling on the major bus routes down Harbor be forced to endure a detour around Manchester? This doesn't just affect Anaheim, but also cities North and South. Does nobody see the folly of possibly eliminating the sidewalk on the West side of Harbor? It seems as though planners (both Disney and Anaheim) may believe that if they choke the pedestrian and vehicle flow on Harbor that people will redirect according to plan. I see some short memories here. Let's not forget the gridlock around the River and on the hub when Mary Niven decreed that Fantasmic! should have Dining Plans and FastPass.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Well, it has been clear since the project was announced that Manchester was going to get widened, and a sidewalk added.

The Disney owned property from Disney Way to West Coast University will give up land to the city, and the USCIS building is owned by Disney, and Disney can redesign the entryways to the building, claiming a tenant improvement, and having better driveaway access to the building will be an important improvement. The current Quality Inn will also give up land, and of course, they want better access for their new Hotel. As for West Coast University, the city has the right to claim access for an expanded road, and the actual building is far enough away from the road, it won't be an issue. So Manchester should be the same width (or maybe even a bit wider) than the current section next to Harbor Blvd.

As for the bus rerouting, it is designed to make Harbor Blvd a better throughfare for the locals, and eliminating driveways, traffic lights, crosswalks and bus stops will make traffic flow a lot easier and faster. Keeping the Theme Park folks off Harbor, whether driving, walking or taking a bus will be a big help. Moving the Bus Stop to a place that hooks up with other bbus routes (remember that the ART service is a public bus system, and is a transfer partner with the OCTA, where the passes for one, works on the other, and with the main ART terminal being moved to Manchester,well, just makes sense.

OCTA already does that with the Fullerton Transit Center and Route 43, where the bus detours off Harbor for a couple of blocks to hook up with other forms of transit. And also similar situations on other routes and transit centers, such as OCTA Route 29 and Beach Blvd, where the bus gets off Beach and detours a couple of blocks to a Transit Center.

So we will have an improved area for travel and transit that should flow better for all.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Just thought about this, the combination of OCTA Route 543 and the ART Shuttles is great for Hotel workers, they can get to the ART hub, and then take the one that services their job location. Some Hotels/Motels don't have easy OCTA access, so you have door to door service.

And in case you missed it, there was a bad accident that closed Harbor at Ball for about 5 hours, due to a car crossing over lanes and running into an OCTA Bus...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bus-739556-sedan-octa.html

 

[Darkbeer1]

Here is the link to the current OCTA study of Harbor Blvd.

http://www.octa.net/Projects-and-Pr...tral-Harbor-Boulevard-Transit-Corridor-Study/

Interesting to see they are looking at Anaheim Blvd as a possible alternative route to Harbor Blvd in Anaheim and Fullerton.

>>The Central Harbor Boulevard Transit Corridor Study will define the corridor, travel demand, and the mobility needs; develop goals and performance measures; and identify potential alternatives for improving the corridor. The final phase of the study will evaluate the alternatives against the goals and objectives.<<

And I can see the Anaheim GardenWalk working with the OCTA and ART to use the overbuilt bus terminal between 24 Hour Fitness and Bowlmor. It has the spaces, the wide roads and easy turning junctions, a bus driver break room, public restrooms, and easy access to Clementine/Manchester and Disney Way. AGW would love the additional foot traffic, and there isn't anything else they can do in the area (also used for freight deliveries). Perfect for the LA Metro Route 460 to deadhead its southern end, and allow its bus driver the 20 minute break they get before heading back north. Also for OCTA Route 83 northern end before heading back to Laguna Hills. Shopping Malls are typical for transit centers, so this is a natural fit.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Another thought, do you redesign the current Toy Story Lot/Katella Lot/KCML to provide better access avoiding Harbor Blvd.

Make the driveway at the corner of Clementine and Katella that is used by CM's and Tioy Story Buses to allow Guests topay and park, creating an easy detour if the Pumbaa Structure is full, just have them make a left onto Clementine and head south...

Move the CM entrance to Haster Street south of Katella, also keep cars farther out on the edge of the Resort area.The CM Shuttle Buses could use either entrance, making a loop, and avoiding the area. Say starting at a CM stop near Haster, then a second stop closer to Clementine (depending on what areas of the lot is being used by guests), then straight up Clementine/Manchester to Harbor Blvd (HoJo's), make a left onto Harbor to the CM Drop off lot, and then back southbound on Harbor, turn onto Disney Way to Haster, make the right onto Haster to the new CM entrance.

You could also have the guests that are redirected from the Mickey and Friends structure to the back side road of DCA that takes you to Harbor and Disney Way, and have them go straight onto Disney Way to Clementine, and then a right into the Katella Lot.

Lots of ways to reduce the traffic on Harbor to make it more free flowing for the residents in the area.

 

[JD2000]

I am surprised there is not more emphasis on the much longer walk to the shuttles from the parks. An equivalent of walking north to the overpass, or south, to almost Katella. You may as well just continue to walk the rest of the way, to most hotels, at that point.

I also don't see why they couldn't just keep the crosswalk and entrance open; squeeze in enough Transportation Hub, Disney Shuttle Drop-off, and Disney Cast Drop-off together on the west side of Harbor, all the way from Disney Way to the new Pedestrian Bridge; and put about half of the Security just south of the bridge incline. I am pretty sure there is actually enough space. And it would solve most of the current issues and complaints with the project. And they would continue to have the entire current Disney Shuttle Drop-off area for future expansion. It would be a win-win for everybody.

 

[Ismael Flores]

Trying to understand where you wanted to squeeze everything west of harbor and still have the expansion area for the park.

Doesn't sound possible when you have thousands of guests on busy days all packed in between park expansionand esplanade

 

[Darkbeer1]

I am surprised there is not more emphasis on the much longer walk to the shuttles from the parks. An equivalent of walking north to the overpass, or south, to almost Katella. You may as well just continue to walk the rest of the way, to most hotels, at that point.

I also don't see why they couldn't just keep the crosswalk and entrance open; squeeze in the entire Transportation Hub, Disney Shuttle Drop-off, and Disney Cast Drop-off together on the west side of Harbor, all the way from Disney Way to the new Pedestrian Bridge; and put half the Security just south of the bridge incline. I am pretty sure there is actually enough space. And it would solve most of the current issues and complaints with the project. And they would continue to have the entire current Disney Shuttle Drop-off area for future expansion. It would be a win-win for everybody.

OK, the extra walk is about 3/10th of a mile each way, then you still have to walk south to Katella, so a bit more of a walk, and many folks will still use the ART Shuttles, Public Transit (OCTA and LA Metro), Private shuttles and Tour Vans, add to that Taxis, and now Uber/Lyft, and you need more space for all these vehicles, plus the 7,000 parking space the new Pumbaa Structure will offer, and maybe more in a few years when the USCIS lease runs out.

Disney has plans for the former space, mainly expansion for DCA, but you still need room for the bridge ramp, and the new secure zone for the Toy Story Buses (who will have their security check at the bus loading area, just like Mickey & Friends, when the new Manchester Security Check opens.

Add the additional attendance to both Star Wars Land and DCA expansion, and you need a larger facility to deal with the larger crowd. We are looking at replacing 16 security stations on the East Side currently, and will be over 50 by the time the project is completed (about 40 at the Transportation Hub, and 16 or so at Toy Story Lot), and that IS a BIG Win for everyone, less time in line for the guests, and less complaints to Disney, and a better and more Secure park.

 

[JD2000]

Well... do keep in mind that not all the current space is used or even needed, and it would all need to be somewhat downsized and squeezed in efficiently, but it does indeed seem quite plausible.

 

[JD2000]

... and the new secure zone for the Toy Story Buses (who will have their security check at the bus loading area, just like Mickey & Friends, when the new Manchester Security Check opens.

I am saying to divide the new security area into two sections; one just after departing either Toy Story, Hotel, and Cast Shuttles that would use a shared hub, AND the second would continue to be just after leaving the new Parking Structure. So it would need to eliminate that plan to make that entire area south of the crosswalk secure.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Security does not want cramped areas, they want wide open areas that are a decent length, where they can watch guests approach the security check stations, and how they act/react. They actually gain a lot of information that way, and in reality is better than a bag check to find out who might be looking to cause trouble. This was stated by the Former Fullerton Police Chief, and now head of Security of the Disneyland Resort at the Planning Commission Town Hall.

They also want the checkpoints to be farther away from the Main Entrance Plaza, and why the change over for the West Side just happened.

Disney is spending a lot of money, and they don't do that without good reason.

There are other things that have been improved by the new form of Security procedures, but I will not discuss those, as one reason they work is that they are unknown to the vast majority of folks.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Then why move the Toy Story offload to the current passenger drop-off instead of Manchester? Why should they get the coveted real estate on the West side of Harbor?
And if CMs being dropped off or taking the bus to the new Manchester stop have to pass through security before the Harbor overpass, do they have to pass Security again at Harbor House or DCA's Hollywood Gate? And what about long overdue compensation for the increased walk/dress time that has not kept up with the added time involved over the years, especially the move to K-Lot?
I greatly appreciate Darkbeer's obvious expertise in these matters and taking the time to explain these often complex civic and bureaucratic processes. But I do feel there's a little bit of "Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow" that I outgrew decades ago. Both Disney and Anaheim need to be challenged and scrutinized over these projects.
Disney has been profligate in their use of land at DCA. I know it's expensive to build subterranean facilities, but the one thing they can't make more of is land. Why didn't they put the offices and support facilities in the green buildings in the SE corner of DCA into a 3- or 4-story building on the back side of RSR, instead of the ugliest backside of a ride in DL history? Same with the Neighborhood Cafe (the nicest CM eaterie at the resort, reminiscent of the old Inn Between) and other services, such as the big costuming building behind ToT, the office trailers behind the Hyperion queue, and the Security building next to Monsters, Inc. in the NE corner of DCA?
As for Anaheim, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of parking. They gave Disney free reign for far too long.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

One thing I noticed was the lack of trashcans approaching the old taxi drop off 'checkpoint' into DtD. I had an apple earlier in the day in the car... and kept forgetting to throw it away... finally did at a quick gift buying stop at DtD and ended up taking it through security due to no trashcans... would swear they were there before.

 

[Darkbeer1]

One thing I noticed was the lack of trashcans approaching the old taxi drop off 'checkpoint' into DtD. I had an apple earlier in the day in the car... and kept forgetting to throw it away... finally did at a quick gift buying stop at DtD and ended up taking it through security due to no trashcans... would swear they were there before.

And people wanted to know why Disney doesn't have many trash Cans in the parking lots/structures.... Might be a tempting place to drop something "bad" off....

And it isn't just Disney that does it...

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

And people wanted to know why Disney doesn't have many trash Cans in the parking lots/structures.... Might be a tempting place to drop something "bad" off....

And it isn't just Disney that does it...

True dat. And that's just one of the changes modern life has brought.

 

[JD2000]

Security does not want cramped areas, they want wide open areas that are a decent length, where they can watch guests approach the security check stations, and how they act/react.

I am not sure there is any evidence that increased security (bag checks, etc) would or has prevented anything tragic from happening. But that would be another discussion. I do believe however there would still be enough space for that if it was designed and utilized well. Now of course, I am not entirely confident about that. I am just not very thrilled with the current plans and hope they change to satisfy everyone.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I have said multiple times that there will be winners and losers with this (and any other) change.

The city has had a requirement for another parking structure as part of an agreement from the 1990's, and is looking at the overall impact of its residents and locals. So things like better traffic flow, more jobs and making sure those businesses are bring taken care off (Both Disney and the non-Disney ones) are important.

And Disney got thrown a curve ball with the change of tone of the city government and make-up, and is scrambling a bit to re-write its future plans, and trying to find ways to work with the new council, though Mayor Tait will make that very hard to do....

 

[NobodyElse]

I've been having some random thoughts, and this is all academic, but...

IF:

• I Owned the Park View Inn property
• I was assured that the new gateway project was a done deal
• I heard rumblings from my neighbors that they had no intention of adding "back of property" access to the new gateway
• I was already planning on demolishing my structures for a new design
• I wasn't completely married to the currently proposed re-design / rendering
• I could re-design with proper subterranean parking
• I could re-design and meet my requirements for number of rooms, etc.

...I might seriously consider using most of my ground level property for a major walkway with small shops and eateries (including IHOP and Coldstone) on one or both sides. That property is roughly in the middle of the "affected Harbor businesses", and could pull in fairly substantial foot traffic from north and south.

Just something to ponder.

 

[Curious Constance]

We've been staying at the Park Vue Inn for years. I've always been a big fan, so I'm very interested in seeing what they decide to do.