New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I think that if the courts found virtual lines have nothing to do with the ADA, calling it a "disability accommodation" would be pretty slippery semantic territory. I guess that gets to the root of what I was asking - if the ADA says "Nope, no thanks, this has nothing to do with disability accommodations as far as we're concerned, not legally anyways", then it become something that Disney is choosing to give to parks goers with a developmental delay. So does that change the legality? Maybe a clearer example would be - could Disney say "Anyone who is deaf or hard of hearing will get a free annual pass, but only those who are deaf or hard of hearing."? Or would that be considered discriminatory?
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Disney giving out free annual passes crosses into the realm of complete fantasy 😂
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I hear you, lol, but just trying to clarify what I was asking.
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Your question is a good one. I’m probably overthinking this. DAS is a disability accommodation that is reasonably limited to people who have certain disabilities that cannot be accommodated in other ways. Developmental disabilities appear to fit that definition. Clearly, you’re correct that disability accommodations can’t be arbitrary.
 
S

Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
What im about to say is slightly off topic But to me still relevant regarding DAS etc. so i was at a party this weekend. Talking with a family friend of my GF who just came back from Disney with his wife and son. Was telling me about a “service” he paid $600 3 hours to basically “skip the lines”. It was his 1st visit and was given the number by someone else. He was pretty oblivious to how that happened and actually thought it was a legit service until i explained to him what they were probably doing. So looks like Disney still needs to crack down on what is happening…
 
J

jennab55

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
What im about to say is slightly off topic But to me still relevant regarding DAS etc. so i was at a party this weekend. Talking with a family friend of my GF who just came back from Disney with his wife and son. Was telling me about a “service” he paid $600 3 hours to basically “skip the lines”. It was his 1st visit and was given the number by someone else. He was pretty oblivious to how that happened and actually thought it was a legit service until i explained to him what they were probably doing. So looks like Disney still needs to crack down on what is happening…
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Ask for the contact info and report the person. Only way to shut them down is if they are caught and banned. Will hopefully then scare others from doing it too.
 
S

Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
jennab55 said:
But it will affect all of us when they shut down DAS for good…. I’d rather them know about the people using it unethically and going after them.
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At this point altho it will hurt myself as well. I truly hope they can DAS for everyone. Free up all the LL and according to the so called experts now makes it easier to get those and the stand by que moves better
 
J

jennab55

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
At this point altho it will hurt myself as well. I truly hope they can DAS for everyone. Free up all the LL and according to the so called experts now makes it easier to get those and the stand by que moves better
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I guess I wouldn’t hope they get rid of something that helps other people, even if it’s not something I use.
 
S

Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
jennab55 said:
I guess I wouldn’t hope they get rid of something that helps other people, even if it’s not something I use.
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I do use it. But its clear Disney is picking & choosing who gets it. Still cant crackdown on abuse yet have miles of data on all of us. Months later people still confused bc there is no clarity or any easy access from a line. So yea lets can it all
 
J

jennab55

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
I do use it. But it’s clear Disney is picking & choosing who gets it. Still cant crackdown on abuse yet have miles of data on all of us. Months later people still confused bc there is no clarity or any easy access from a line. So yea lets can it all
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If you think that’s how it should be, then don’t use it. You have that choice and sounds like it wouldn’t matter to you if it didn’t exist.
 
DryerLintFan

DryerLintFan

Premium Member
Chi84 said:
I think you’re correct that they’re on solid legal ground, but there may have been public relations or administrative reasons to keep the program.

People suggested that they should have changed the name of the program, but even if they replaced it with an almost identical one the headlines would have still been “Disney discontinues DAS.”

I sincerely doubt Disney wants to discontinue DAS, but it did want to significantly limit it.

The difficult part is what different accommodation would meet the need. Hypothetically, if the only accommodation that would work for a person is to skip standing in line, would Disney be required by the ADA to provide that as a reasonable accommodation given its current business model?
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There’s a way. Like, to cut out people from DAS who use mobility devices, they made sure the queues could accommodate mobility devices. If you think about the chief complaints, they could modify queues if they wanted to.

We waited in a 30 minute line yesterday, for example, that was a pleasant wait. It had fans everywhere, was fully shaded, had exposed sides so the noise was kept down and didn’t bounce, and it had water fountains along the way. The only things i wished were different was they piped in animal sounds every now and then which were alarmingly loud, and there was no place to sit. Otherwise, great queue for people who cannot be in : heat, noise, confined spaces, etc.

Most of their queues are the opposite. Even their other new queues.

Additionally, they could remove crush points in ride’s and shows. Two days ago we saw a girl have a panic attack as we exited Fantasmic. I’ve seen that before in haunted mansion as well, but lots of rides have crush points like that.

They could dim the lights in queue’s and quiet them down too and then they’d have legal ground to stand on that they’ve accommodated everyone.
 
C

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
jaklgreen

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
I said from the very beginning of this change that Disney did not adopt a documentation requirement because it would cause them additional expense and effort without limiting access to the LLs to the extent they want.

There is definitely some risk involved to businesses who are asking for documentation, but in my opinion, Disney has chosen a much riskier legal position. I'm not going to argue with those who believe otherwise, but Disney has distinguished between people with different disabilities by saying that DAS - which is the program that allows waiting outside the line - is intended for people with developmental disabilities. That means by definition that it is not intended for people with non-developmental disabilities. Eventually someone will say this discriminates against the physically disabled who are also unable to tolerate waiting in lines.

Don't misunderstand; I don't believe Disney will lose a lawsuit on this theory but they are counting on standing in line as being an integral part of the theme park experience that they cannot give away free of charge without drastically altering their current business model. Once that is decided in their favor, DAS is a completely voluntary accommodation that is not required by the ADA and therefore completely within their discretion to allow or withhold.

If anyone has a reasonable, civil, non-snarky, non-argumentative reply, do so soon; we probably only have a week ;)
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This should be interesting to watch. If anyone decides to sue Disney, claiming that their physical disability was not accommodated properly, it can get messy. There are any number of arguments that can be made. Just claiming that is alters current business model may not be sufficient. If your business model can not accommodate all of those with disabilities, an argument could be made that capacity is too high, for example.
All it would take is for one person, who had DAS in the past and had a great trip, to now be denied and have a medical emergency in the standby line. It can all come down to how well it is argued and how the judge/jury feel about it.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
jaklgreen said:
This should be interesting to watch. If anyone decides to sue Disney, claiming that their physical disability was not accommodated properly, it can get messy. There are any number of arguments that can be made. Just claiming that is alters current business model may not be sufficient. If your business model can not accommodate all of those with disabilities, an argument could be made that capacity is too high, for example.
All it would take is for one person, who had DAS in the past and had a great trip, to now be denied and have a medical emergency in the standby line. It can all come down to how well it is argued and how the judge/jury feel about it.
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That’s not all it would take, and thankfully our legal system is not based on "feels."

When I said "riskier" I meant in terms of giving the plaintiff something (however weak) to serve as a basis for a lawsuit. There are so many barriers to someone actually winning that kind of lawsuit that it would be difficult to list them all.

First, people have medical emergencies all the time so tying one to lack of a free line-skip system would be nearly impossible. Also, an accommodation - by definition - is not reasonable if it requires a business to fundamentally alter the way it operates no matter how necessary for the person requesting it. So no business is going to be told to alter its capacity.

There may or may not be a lawsuit, though, and I do agree that the arguments would be interesting.
 
N

NotTheOne

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
I think you’re correct that they’re on solid legal ground, but there may have been public relations or administrative reasons to keep the program.

People suggested that they should have changed the name of the program, but even if they replaced it with an almost identical one the headlines would have still been “Disney discontinues DAS.”

I sincerely doubt Disney wants to discontinue DAS, but it did want to significantly limit it.

The difficult part is what different accommodation would meet the need. Hypothetically, if the only accommodation that would work for a person is to skip standing in line, would Disney be required by the ADA to provide that as a reasonable accommodation given its current business model?
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As to your last question, I'm not sure that Disney could be forced to allow people to skip lines as an accommodation, but then again, a big part of operations in a theme park is lines, so who knows.
 
N

NotTheOne

Well-Known Member
jaklgreen said:
This should be interesting to watch. If anyone decides to sue Disney, claiming that their physical disability was not accommodated properly, it can get messy. There are any number of arguments that can be made. Just claiming that is alters current business model may not be sufficient. If your business model can not accommodate all of those with disabilities, an argument could be made that capacity is too high, for example.
All it would take is for one person, who had DAS in the past and had a great trip, to now be denied and have a medical emergency in the standby line. It can all come down to how well it is argued and how the judge/jury feel about it.
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First, I don't see any way that any company facing this kind of lawsuit would have a jury trial, because they understand that too many people use emotion rather than the law when making a decision. Second, there is nothing in the ADA that even implies that a business model or might have to change in order to accommodate all disabilities. In fact, it does the opposite, saying that impact to operations can negate the requirement to provide an accommodation.
 
N

NotTheOne

Well-Known Member
DryerLintFan said:
There’s a way. Like, to cut out people from DAS who use mobility devices, they made sure the queues could accommodate mobility devices. If you think about the chief complaints, they could modify queues if they wanted to.

We waited in a 30 minute line yesterday, for example, that was a pleasant wait. It had fans everywhere, was fully shaded, had exposed sides so the noise was kept down and didn’t bounce, and it had water fountains along the way. The only things i wished were different was they piped in animal sounds every now and then which were alarmingly loud, and there was no place to sit. Otherwise, great queue for people who cannot be in : heat, noise, confined spaces, etc.

Most of their queues are the opposite. Even their other new queues.

Additionally, they could remove crush points in ride’s and shows. Two days ago we saw a girl have a panic attack as we exited Fantasmic. I’ve seen that before in haunted mansion as well, but lots of rides have crush points like that.

They could dim the lights in queue’s and quiet them down too and then they’d have legal ground to stand on that they’ve accommodated everyone.
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I don't think it's reasonable to expect Disney (or any theme park) to basically provide sensory-friendly queues for the minority of guests, but that's just me. All of the stuff that is happening in the many of the queues is part of the overall experience for many, if not most, guests.
 

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