New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Splash4eva]

I just assume they know much more about the usage of DAS and the pain points than we do. I imagine them not just removing the prebooks as a first or only step is because they know it would not have had enough of an impact as they intended with the changes.

I imagine they have data backing the heaviest usage came from the groups of people with the types of needs they have moved off DAS, using the basic features of DAS, hence that’s what they’ve targeted.

We can agree to disagree than …

 

[Chi84]

I have no legal background, but I also wonder if Disney would be worried about denying a person with a disability from doing something that a person without a disability is able to do (Even if basically no one does it).

That would be an impossible standard to meet. The GAC to DAS case stated that Disney was required to make "reasonable" accommodations that were "necessary" to provide "something akin to" - or a like experience - to that of a typical park guest and was not required to remove all difficulty or discomfort.

The standard you stated would also eradicate the second part of the equation, which is the one where Disney seems solid: fundamental alteration of its services. Time spent waiting in line is not peripheral, but fundamental, to Disney's business. The court upheld the lower court's finding that a return to GAC "would interfere with non-DAS guests' ability to access Disney's services - meaning that it was not merely peripheral - and would decrease their satisfaction. Therefore, the effect of the accommodation would be to 'fundamentally alter' Disney's park operations and business."

Obviously, the systems are different now, but a similar analysis would apply.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I mean, the same is true for any guest who chooses to re-ride an attraction. The access here is the choice. Nondisabled families may not choose to ride an headliner multiple times in a day - but it is a choice. Disney doesn't prevent them from doing so via standby on virtually all rides (VQs with Boarding Groups excepted, which is a minimal number of attractions at any given time). any guest choosing to ride a headliner multiple times in a day is going to have that same impact on that ride's standby line as a DAS guest doing so would.

Being able to choose what rides your family experiences during a day at Disney isn't an experience outside the norm. Everyone's daily ride makeup will look different based on their family's needs. For some that will be visit as many varied attractions as possible. For others that will be visiting a smaller number of attractions, possibly multiple times if they are able. Neither is right or wrong.

And again - those continuing to see something like this as an advantage for current DAS holders (so a much more restricted and higher level of need than previous) - please take a few moments to consider how those more significant needs can make riding headliners multiple times in a day extremely difficult for the family as well. There seems to be an accepted assumption that such a day would be easier or better or an advantage over others. Thinking about our own situation, the idea of riding Rise 4x in a day is just laughable because of how difficult the logistics of making that happen would be. I can't find the words to describe how stressful it would be. I actually feel for families whose family member may be super fixated like this, because I can imagine just how difficult it can be on the family to have to potentially choose between dealing with a possible crisis moment for the person by not allowing them to do the re-rides, or how difficult it would be just to logistically make those rerides happen and the impact it could have on the entire party to do so. Both suck and neither would I consider an advantage.

I don't know why there's a resistance to this notion that riding a headliner or busy attraction multiple times is very different when using standby versus DAS.

Last time I was at AK I rode Flight of Passage once via pre-booked fastpass and once via stand-by. I chose not to ride it more times because standby was two hours. Riding it 3 or 4 times is going to be unappealing for anyone. If you can do it via DAS, waiting virtually 3-4 times while you eat lunch or do other things, of course it's more likely.

This will impact wait times. Probably more so with something like Peter Pan which is popular and super low capacity.

This isn't about your case or people with extreme needs in general for which this isn't realistic. It's about the DAS users who have milder conditions, or no condition, and power use it. It imbalances the system, impacts others, and attracts more and more cheaters.

This is all why I said limiting DAS use to 1 or 2 rides on those types of headliner attractions is more comparable to what an average guest will experience, and is a reasonable accommodation in my opinion.

The cases where kids want to re-ride again and again? I don't know. I sympathize, but it's not how theme parks are designed to work. They're designed such that people will want to do different things, to spread out crowds and avoid one big shiny or new attraction being swamped.

There are going to be experiences that simply aren't compatible with certain disabilities. That's not meant to sound harsh or unsympathetic, just realistic.

 

[Purduevian]

This is not remotely the standard for public accommodation law - the standard is much, much lower.

That would be an impossible standard to meet. The GAC to DAS case stated that Disney was required to make "reasonable" accommodations that were "necessary" to provide "something akin to" - or a like experience - to that of a typical park guest and was not required to remove all difficulty or discomfort.

The standard you stated would also eradicate the second part of the equation, which is the one where Disney seems solid: fundamental alteration of its services. Time spent waiting in line is not peripheral, but fundamental, to Disney's business. The court upheld the lower court's finding that a return to GAC "would interfere with non-DAS guests' ability to access Disney's services - meaning that it was not merely peripheral - and would decrease their satisfaction. Therefore, the effect of the accommodation would be to 'fundamentally alter' Disney's park operations and business."

Obviously, the systems are different now, but a similar analysis would apply.

Yeah, like I said no legal background, just seemed like it might be an equivalent access issue. However, the "would interfere with non-DAS guests' ability to access Disney's services" is probably where they would legally be allowed to disallow re-rides if they could prove it was hurting the non-DAS users significantly.

I still morally don't like it haha.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I understand that totally but im pretty sure business do not keep these “incentives” going when not needed or when they are creating a problem to every day practices… it was clear and obvious. Heck they changed nothing and could have simply said this is the new rule everything has to be done on video chat… they could have reduced from 2 to 1… they didnt so again. Tough to defend and justify Disney by literally doing zero before this to try and ease the pain

The only people who have any real data on when incentives are needed, and what impacts programs have on park operations, are Disney. People here talk about acendotal happenings. Some people may also spend time maybe looking at wait times on one ride, on one day. The data that anyone has outside of Disney operations is no where near complete enough to make any determinations on what is working, when incentives are no longer needed, what conditions are occurring across the parks, and why. Sure we like to talk about what we see at the parks, what our personal experiences might be, and that might be fun. But we don’t have anywhere near the information to know what needs to be changed or when

 

[Chi84]

Yeah, like I said no legal background, just seemed like it might be an equivalent access issue. However, the "would interfere with non-DAS guests' ability to access Disney's services" is probably where they would legally be allowed to disallow re-rides if they could prove it was hurting the non-DAS users significantly.

I still morally don't like it haha.

Disney in the past has always erred on the side of providing more than what was required, which is what many of us have come to expect. It seems those days are gone.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

The only people who have any real data on when incentives are needed, and what impacts programs have on park operations, are Disney. People here talk about acendotal happenings. Some people may also spend time maybe looking at wait times on one ride, on one day. The data that anyone has outside of Disney operations is no where near complete enough to make any determinations on what is working, when incentives are no longer needed, what conditions are occurring across the parks, and why. Sure we like to talk about what we see at the parks, what our personal experiences might be, and that might be fun. But we don’t have anywhere near the information to know what needs to be changed or when

Yes exactly.

I think the answer to ‘why didn’t they do it this way?’ to this kind of issue at its most basic is probably always going to be because it either causes a problem or doesn’t fix a problem.

They have the data and more intimate knowledge of park operations than most of us discussing this could ever have.

 

[John park hopper]

The whole WDW DAS system is a joke -you can't find out if your disability is covered or not no on line chat no phone number to call. --I tried. Talked to several people sorry can't help. As I posted I have a military disability and I was trying to find out if I was covered if not my Disney days are over. The way they have it you have to make reservations and then 30 days prior or on then day you visit a CM will determine if you are covered. I 'm not going to make a reservation to find out on the day I arrive sorry not covered. Another Disney big disappointment. Would it be so hard I am more than willing to supply my VA documentation ahead of time and be notified prior to planning a vacation.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

The whole WDW DAS system is a joke -you can't find out if your disability is covered or not no on line chat no phone number to call. --I tried. Talked to several people sorry can't help. As I posted I have a military disability and I was trying to find out if I was covered if not my Disney days are over. The way they have it you have to make reservations and then 30 days prior or on then day you visit a CM will determine if you are covered. I 'm not going to make a reservation to find out on the day I arrive sorry not covered. Another Disney big disappointment. Would it be so hard I am more than willing to supply my VA documentation ahead of time and be notified prior to planning a vacation.

Thank You for your service . Hopefully you can find some magic in the parks.

 

[Chi84]

The whole WDW DAS system is a joke -you can't find out if your disability is covered or not no on line chat no phone number to call. --I tried. Talked to several people sorry can't help. As I posted I have a military disability and I was trying to find out if I was covered if not my Disney days are over. The way they have it you have to make reservations and then 30 days prior or on then day you visit a CM will determine if you are covered. I 'm not going to make a reservation to find out on the day I arrive sorry not covered. Another Disney big disappointment. Would it be so hard I am more than willing to supply my VA documentation ahead of time and be notified prior to planning a vacation.

Would in-line accommodations or Genie+/ILLs work for you or are you not able or willing to go unless they offer DAS?

 

[homerdance]

Interesting ad results when I did a google search for DAS. Kind of makes you wonder if this isn’t really a money grab.

 

[John park hopper]

Would in-line accommodations or Genie+/ILLs work for you or are you not able or willing to go unless they offer DAS?

I suppose I could do Gene+/ LL but I have verifiable disability which in my mind Disney should recognize

 

[Splash4eva]

The only people who have any real data on when incentives are needed, and what impacts programs have on park operations, are Disney. People here talk about acendotal happenings. Some people may also spend time maybe looking at wait times on one ride, on one day. The data that anyone has outside of Disney operations is no where near complete enough to make any determinations on what is working, when incentives are no longer needed, what conditions are occurring across the parks, and why. Sure we like to talk about what we see at the parks, what our personal experiences might be, and that might be fun. But we don’t have anywhere near the information to know what needs to be changed or when

Yet & nothing against Len we take what he has provided to us as the Bible…. I do agree with what you are saying but again simple math. Remove 2 pre books for every guest that has DAS adds up…

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I suppose I could do Gene+/ LL but I have verifiable disability which in my mind Disney should recognize

Disney should offer free genie+ to all veterans - the good will and publicity would totally offset the missed money. Plus it’s the right thing to do.

 

[KrzyKtty]

The whole WDW DAS system is a joke -you can't find out if your disability is covered or not no on line chat no phone number to call. --I tried. Talked to several people sorry can't help.

The reason why they cannot give you a clear answer that you are seeking is because it is not disability based but need. So simply having a diagnosis doesn't automatically cover authorization.

And two people with the same disability, one might get DAS and one might not based on their individual needs.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Disney should offer free genie+ to all veterans - the good will and publicity would totally offset the missed money. Plus it’s the right thing to do.

Maybe they should just give 3 free attractions booked in advance to everybody, and more day of subject to availability.

 

[jennab55]

The whole WDW DAS system is a joke -you can't find out if your disability is covered or not no on line chat no phone number to call. --I tried. Talked to several people sorry can't help. As I posted I have a military disability and I was trying to find out if I was covered if not my Disney days are over. The way they have it you have to make reservations and then 30 days prior or on then day you visit a CM will determine if you are covered. I 'm not going to make a reservation to find out on the day I arrive sorry not covered. Another Disney big disappointment. Would it be so hard I am more than willing to supply my VA documentation ahead of time and be notified prior to planning a vacation.

But hasn’t that always been the case? One does not know for certain if they will be approved for DAS until in the park or 30 days prior (for those that chose online). People always ASSUMED they would be approved again if they were prior, but it was never a fact.

Also, while I don’t know your disability (it might be covered), I expect there are some 100% service related disabilities that didn’t even qualify for the old system (mobility being one). So just stating you are 100% disabled doesn’t mean that you can’t wait in a line. Not trying to state this about you specifically, just a general statement for anyone applying. It’s about why one cannot wait in line, not about what type of disability they have.

 

[Chi84]

I suppose I could do Gene+/ LL but I have verifiable disability which in my mind Disney should recognize

The issue is they're not tying accommodation to a disability; in fact, the ADA law currently advises against (and in some instances prohibits) businesses from asking its customers about the nature and extent of their disability. So Disney can't verify your disability under the law as it currently stands. Even the businesses like Six Flags that are asking for documentation are asking for documentation of the need for a specific accommodation.

So if you take verifying disability out of the equation, they are left asking about your need for a specific accommodation. And they've now decided to offer DAS only to people developmental disabilities such as autism (which again they cannot verify with proof of diagnosis), leaving in-line accommodations for everyone else. That's why I asked if in-line accommodations would work; I was not at all suggesting you don't have a verifiable disability.

 

[Figgy1]

If they qualify for DAS under the new rules, why would they need to split up? Isn’t the splitting up only for rider switch or AQR?

There have been reports of a few getting DAS but no other people allowed to be on their card but they were adults able to advocate for themselves.

 

[Figgy1]

Disney should offer free genie+ to all veterans - the good will and publicity would totally offset the missed money. Plus it’s the right thing to do.

They also need to bring back the ability to walk from Shades to Poly but lets not turn this into a what else should Disney do thread