New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Ayla]

Oh i agree! Just from a numbers perspective it’s not actually known. We’re ballparking it, but if someone new came into the discussion they wouldn’t know that.

That’s all i was saying. I don’t dispute we’re in the right place, most likely

It is known from a numbers perspective.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So basically most of these statistics must be coming from MK? Again still trying to get what I can out of this as I didn't realize the abuse was this bad, I am starting to think some (I'm not saying all) of the problem comes from the switch from Fast pass to Genie+. I'm also thinking there are some people that abuse the system just to get ahead.

I think there’s little doubt you’re right on both accounts

We didn’t really analyze the problems with the concept of genie when they rolled it out…because off the weird times everywhere…but if it’s being rebelled against to this level? We honestly shouldn’t be surprised

 

[Hockey89]

I think there’s little doubt you’re right on both accounts

We didn’t really analyze the problems with the concept of genie when they rolled it out…because off the weird times everywhere…but if it’s being rebelled against to this level? We honestly shouldn’t be surprised

Is it really shocking in 2024 that this was going to be abused to this level? It's not at all..... I know family or friends that use the system and it is so laughable it's not even funny. Entitlement and not wanting to pay extra.... It was always going to end here....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

. Entitlement and not wanting to pay extra.... It was always going to end here....

What dusters around forums won’t entertain is this:
The value needed in the parks is not there

They’ve raised the prices too fast for too long without outfitting the parks

In a word: Bob
Believing the label always outweighs the product

Roy would have had him tossed out of Doc’s nose by now

 

[Hockey89]

What dusters around forums won’t entertain is this:
The value needed in the parks is not there

They’ve raised the prices too fast for too long without outfitting the parks

In a word: Bob
Believing the label always outweighs the product

Roy would have had him tossed out of Doc’s nose by now

Bingo.

 

[Andrew25]

The one thing that stands out about all of this is that it shows how "far" a good chunk of people are willing to go (or need to) in order to enjoy their day at the parks.

Shows you how bad Disney screwed up by not adding capacity to the parks properly.

It doesn't justify abuse, but I'd imagine most people would be fine waiting in standby if you have enough capacity in the parks to prevent 90+ waits on multiple attractions.

 

[Disstevefan1]

COP is one of the dumbest greatest attractions on property though.

FIFY

 

[Splash4eva]

Is it really shocking in 2024 that this was going to be abused to this level? It's not at all..... I know family or friends that use the system and it is so laughable it's not even funny. Entitlement and not wanting to pay extra.... It was always going to end here....

What is confusing me is why is everyone saying it is being abused? We have been told ONLY 8% of guests have DAS. Thats a very low number. How many of that do we think is outright fraud? The % that is being taken up is simply people playing by Disneys rules. Again im pretty sure if we asked people how many DAS users there were % wise. Everyone would have guessed much higher than 8%. Yes i understand party size and everything but from a strict pov of how many people actually have access. 8% is not a high number. Its what Disney allows to happen after being accepted. Ie 2 pre books. Party siZe of 6 and higher in some cases. Booking immediately after tapping in.

 

[Touchdown]

Is the 8% DAS holders, or total people in a DAS party? I think it has to be the latter because 8% of people using 70% of capacity doesn’t make any sense (if that’s the case their capacity estimates are way way off.)

8% times, say, 5 people is 40% of actual park goers, correct?

Technically it seems like 40% of guests should only be physically able to use 40% of capacity or else the capacity numbers are simply wrong, but I don’t know how much the ability to be in two lines at once impacts things.

Do you honestly think 4 out of every 10 guests is a DAS user or has a DAS user in their party? Gosh I hope not, that’s even worse. I think 8% of the park attendance is DAS and their party.

 

[Tha Realest]

Isn’t this actually Disney’s genie+ disclaimer, that you can expect to use it on 2-3 attractions a day? That’s abysmal for a line skipping service, and straight from them. Especially when the price can climb so high.

IIRC that disclaimer is a relatively new one (last 6-9 mos?) likely due to these very operational issues we’ve seen and to level set expectations accordingly.

 

[Touchdown]

The one thing that stands out about all of this is that it shows how "far" a good chunk of people are willing to go (or need to) in order to enjoy their day at the parks.

Shows you how bad Disney screwed up by not adding capacity to the parks properly.

It doesn't justify abuse, but I'd imagine most people would be fine waiting in standby if you have enough capacity in the parks to prevent 90+ waits on multiple attractions.

For normal people <30 min waits are desirable, 30-60 min waits are tolerable for 3-6 times throughout the day, and >60 min should be at most once per day. Unless you know what you’re doing and can walk fast at rope drop you can’t adhere to that at Disney Parks right now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Do you honestly think 4 out of every 10 guests is a DAS user or has a DAS user in their party? Gosh I hope not, that’s even worse. I think 8% of the park attendance is DAS and their party.

What is the appropriate percentage based on the prevalence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

 

[flynnibus]

Technically it seems like 40% of guests should only be physically able to use 40% of capacity or else the capacity numbers are simply wrong, but I don’t know how much the ability to be in two lines at once impacts things.

Again, because of the ratios. The attraction capacity is relatively constant - but the high priority queue gets to use more of it. Then you're simply looking at who is in that high priority queue.

Your point about a body in the park ignores that the two groups are not using attractions equally - and their time burned in waits is not the same.

Remember back when you were using FP and getting 12 rides a day vs someone who wasn't and only getting 7 rides a day? Same thing. The FP user has more opportunities because of availability and has the ability to get through attractions faster than the alternative.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Just to sum up the numbers as this thread as it’s gotten long:
8% of visitors are DAS
70% of a rides capacity is given to DAS
74-85% of LL users are DAS

15-26% of LL users are G+
10-25% of a rides capacity is given to G+

5-20% of a rides capacity is given to standby guests

8% of visitors get 70% of a rides capacity
92% of visitors get 30% of a rides capacity, which is unevenly given to G+ users

This is a huge problem and needs a radical solution, I’m sorry it’s causing heartache to some of the most vulnerable in our society but the company cannot function, nor is it fair to the rest of us, for this to continue.

Let's see if I got this...

Let's establish 20% of a ride's capacity is Standby, by picking a round number. [5-20% of a rides capacity is given to standby guests]

That leaves 80% of capacity for LL. There are two groups that use LL -- G+ and DAS.

Let's establish that 80% of LL users are DAS. [74-85% of LL users are DAS]

So, 80% of the 80% of the LL is DAS. So, that means roughly 65% of capacity is DAS.

Let's establish that 20% of LL is G+. [10-25% of a rides capacity is given to G+]

So, 20% of the 80% that use LL is G+. So, that means roughly 15% of capacity is G+.

This means that a ride's capacity is:

• 20% Standby
• 15% G+
• 65% DAS

Graphically it looks like this below. Green is DAS, yellow is G+, and blue is Standby...

And here is what 8% of total guests who use DAS looks like graphically...

 

[Hockey89]

Again, because of the ratios. The attraction capacity is relatively constant - but the high priority queue gets to use more of it. Then you're simply looking at who is in that high priority queue.

Your point about a body in the park ignores that the two groups are not using attractions equally - and their time burned in waits is not the same.

Remember back when you were using FP and getting 12 rides a day vs someone who wasn't and only getting 7 rides a day? Same thing. The FP user has more opportunities because of availability and has the ability to get through attractions faster than the alternative.

The paper fast pass.... What a great system..... It is truly missed....

 

[flynnibus]

Shows you how bad Disney screwed up by not adding capacity to the parks properly.

That's a question of perspective.

It's like the airlines. While customers love empty, calm planes, the airlines hate them. Running at full capacity as much as possible is the best use of their resources.

Similar to theme parks - customers love empty, calm places with no waits... operators hate them. It's a waste and expensive. Disney running high utilization nearly year round is their best case scenario. Until it starts turning customers away, it's where they want to be.

People bemoan Disney replacing vs expanding. Replacing keeps things updated... Expanding also expands your overhead and unless you are charging for it specifically, also reduces your margins.

If there were no G+/LL waits... would Disney park attendance somehow explode double digit growth? Unlikely.

 

[Touchdown]

What is the appropriate percentage based on the prevalence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

I don’t know but when I’m at Disney parks I do not think that nearly half of the parties around me have a DAS guest. 1 out of 10 seems about right, which I will point out, is far greater percentage then I experience else where.

 

[SamusAranX]

Let's see if I got this...

Let's establish 20% of a ride's capacity is Standby, by picking a round number. [5-20% of a rides capacity is given to standby guests]

That leaves 80% of capacity for LL. There are two groups that use LL -- G+ and DAS.

Let's establish that 80% of LL users are DAS. [74-85% of LL users are DAS]

So, 80% of the 80% of the LL is DAS. So, that means roughly 65% of capacity is DAS.

Let's establish that 20% of LL is G+. [10-25% of a rides capacity is given to G+]

So, 20% of the 80% that use LL is G+. So, that means roughly 15% of capacity is G+.

This means that a ride's capacity is:

• 20% Standby
• 15% G+
• 65% DAS

Graphically it looks like this below. Green is DAS, yellow is G+, and blue is Standby...

View attachment 779451

And here is what 8% of total guests who use DAS looks like graphically...

View attachment 779450

A penguin who likes graphs.

Be still my heart

 

[Hockey89]

I don’t know but when I’m at Disney parks I do not think that nearly half of the parties around me have a DAS guest. 1 out of 10 seems about right, which I will point out, is far greater percentage then I experience else where.

How would you know. I wont bore you but i know four families that use the system that you would never know and it's laughable they can use it.

I use the LL all the time and I don't notice either....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The one thing that stands out about all of this is that it shows how "far" a good chunk of people are willing to go (or need to) in order to enjoy their day at the parks.

Shows you how bad Disney screwed up by not adding capacity to the parks properly.

It doesn't justify abuse, but I'd imagine most people would be fine waiting in standby if you have enough capacity in the parks to prevent 90+ waits on multiple attractions.

It shows you how far people will go and how they’ve been turned off by the prices.

It’s a disaster. I had no idea until this thread…
Thanks, LT