New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[TrainsOfDisney]

Your solution is for them to not charge for their maxed out ride booking system?

Most of us long for the days of classic FP don’t we?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A hypothetical discussion I had this week, entirely in my head, went like this:

Me: I'm sure y'all modeled various 'DAS abuse' outcomes before rolling out G+, right?

Industrial Engineer: Yeah, but this is so far beyond what the models said that if the models had said X%, we wouldn't have believed the models.

So might the problem be charging $150 for a ticket, $35 for a booking system, and $18 for one ride on a “headliner” that is likely not very good?

Just spitballing here.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Most of us long for the days of classic FP don’t we?

Two types of people:
1. Those that know fastpass 1.0 was the best
2. Those that are wrong.

 

[Florida Man]

You’re not wrong

All roads lead back to roam here.

Genie is a “circular” problem. People don’t want to pay for genie…then they break down and buy it…then it doesn’t work well at all…so they are even more embedded hating it and the fees.

Lather rinse

I agree. It’s ends up turning into a feeling of resentment instead of the previous feeling that you got your monies worth.

I wonder if the execs think about that—the long term implications and guest satisfaction when deciding things like Genie+. It’s not fun to Apple Pay an extra $120 right off the bat when you enter the park.

 

[Grantwil93]

DAS goes in the ILL line, I believe. I could be wrong.

Yep. At seven dwarfs or Rise, you just book it like any other DAS and scan into the LL once your time is up. And can book it as many times as you want. Its the same as any other ride. It's not treated differently like it is on the G+ system

At Tron or Guardians, you still have to get into the VQ and wait for your group to be called. But once it is called, there are dedicated CM's who redeem your VQ and give you a LL to use immediately. And you cannot book it again because no one else can buy 2 IDLL or enter the virtual queue a second time that day.

I actually think the VQ rides are where it's the least broken as the system currently stands. But thats just because the VQ rides don't have the same avenues of abuse as the rest of the parks

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's true, but maybe only to a point?

A high capacity attraction like Small World is one thing.

What about something that is popular with low capacity, like Peter Pan. The type of attraction that sells out of Genie+ spots early.

If Disney has to keep allowing repeat DAS spots, when the "Fastpass" line is already at "capacity", that could inflate standby wait times and infringe on the enjoyment of other guests.

Know what else inflates standby waits? People getting into the standby queue.

Disney could also do the math so that posted wait times reflected DAS usage.

 

[Grantwil93]

Two types of people:
1. Those that know fastpass 1.0 was the best
2. Those that are wrong.

My Dad running around the park with our tickets as a kid while we walked with our mom and grandparents, leading to an afternoon with a stack of FP tickets were like my peak Disney years.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Most of us long for the days of classic FP don’t we?

Absolutely. Might be hard to stuff that genie back in the bottle though, isn’t part of what made that so great that try as they might uptake wasn’t very high with paper FP and education was a struggle? I’d assume guests are too well informed in the age of social media for that system to be as advantageous as it once was ever again.

 

[Splash4eva]

Maybe I'm misreading, but would it be accurate to say "ppl who are getting the pass for fraudulent reasons are doing it because they can 100% have a superior experience as the system exists compared to standby or even G+ since they don't have any mitigating factors that families who do actually need the pass have"

Cause I agree if so

But is that what is causing these problems. Its been said DAS takes up less than 10% of the guests but uses say 50% of lines… thats not a “fraud” issue thats an issue with the system Disney has in place.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree. It’s ends up turning into a feeling of resentment instead of the previous feeling that you got your monies worth.

I wonder if the execs think about that—the long term implications and guest satisfaction when deciding things like Genie+. It’s not fun to Apple Pay an extra $120 right off the bat when you enter the park.

Wdw has never had an attendance decline without a recession. Because it’s counterintuitive.

So why do they have one now:
A. Price
B. scheduling headaches
c. Declining sense of value
D. Soccer camp
E. A, B, and C

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Absolutely. Might be hard to stuff that genie back in the bottle though, isn’t part of what made that so great that try as they might uptake wasn’t very high with paper FP and education was a struggle? I’d assume guests are too well informed in the age of social media for that system to be as advantageous as it once was ever again.

But it also didn’t grind the standbys to a halt

They knew exactly how many were coming into the fastpass lane every minute because it was a set amount spaced out

 

[Purduevian]

But is that what is causing these problems. Its been said DAS takes up less than 10% of the guests but uses say 50% of lines… thats not a “fraud” issue thats an issue with the system Disney has in place.

Yes, but because 10% of the Guests can take 50% of the capacity, it encourages people to lie to gain that advantage. If 1% of the guests were takin up 5% of the lines (because it was harder to get the pass), I don't think anyone would be upset. Imagine the day a person that does not require DAS can have if they get DAS and power uses G+. I'm assuming ~15-20 line skips in a full 12-13 hour park day.

 

[Grantwil93]

But is that what is causing these problems. Its been said DAS takes up less than 10% of the guests but uses say 50% of lines… thats not a “fraud” issue thats an issue with the system Disney has in place.

Oh I agree. But I think that ties back into party size

Let's say there are 100,000 ppl total in the park

10,000 of them have a DAS pass. But those 10,000 ppl who have the pass also each have 3 others of that 90,000 other guests who are joining them

So now, of that original 100,000, 40,000 are using DAS in the lightning lane. And 60,000 ppl are split between G+ and Standby. Meaning more guests could be using the "faster" option than just standby on any given day. Which just breaks the system entirely and no one is happy(especially those paying extra for G+)
....
That's the issue. And unfortunately, it really doesn't have an easy fix. Either sell less G+ (they won't, and we don't even really know how how much they sell.) Or, in fact, the only other "easy" fix(not saying I like it), is to create less guest load on the DAS system by not having as many ppl with DAS and coming up with alternatives.

Those numbers are too simple and hypothetical,but I hope it gets the idea across

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, but because 10% of the Guests can take 50% of the capacity, it encourages people to lie to gain that advantage. If 1% of the guests were takin up 5% of the lines (because it was harder to get the pass), I don't think anyone would be upset. Imagine the day a person that does not require DAS can have if they get DAS and power uses G+. I'm assuming ~15-20 line skips in a full 12-13 hour park day.

Exactly…which is impossible for the standard customer. It’s developing into an “angry majority”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh I agree. But I think that ties back into party size

Let's say there are 100,000 ppl total in the park

10,000 of them have a DAS pass. But those 10,000 ppl who have the pass also each have 3 others of that 90,000 other guests who are joining them

So now, of that original 100,000, 40,000 are using DAS in the lightning lane. And 60,000 ppl are split between G+ and Standby. Meaning more guests could be using the "faster" option than just standby on any given day. Which just breaks the system entirely and no one is happy(especially those paying extra for G+)
....
That's the issue. And unfortunately, it really doesn't have an easy fix. Either sell less G+ (they won't, and we don't even really know how how much they sell.) Or, in fact, the only other "easy" fix(not saying I like it), is to create less guest load on the DAS system by not having as many ppl with DAS and coming up with alternatives.

There’s 3 steps that might fix this issue:
1. More capacity
2. Limit genie sales
3. Reduce DAS use

They won’t do the first 2…so all the heat is directed to 3

 

[WDWTrojan]

Just want to give everyone a refresher here as I think some people might benefit from a history lesson:

Prior to 2002, Disney had a "one size fits all" option that encompassed guests with mobility issues (wheelchairs, etc) and sensory/develomental issues. This was basically an immediate FP or "exit pass," for those rides without FP. Around this time, Disney started updating queues to be almost completely ADA compliant.

Then in 2002, due to rampant abuse (mostly due to people getting wheelchairs to skip the line), Disney came out with the GAC (Guest Assistance Card) program, which allowed for a far more tailored approach to disability issues. Guest Relations cast members were trained to ask for what kinds of needs a guest might require. From there, they had a bunch of card options to issue the guest based on the need, including:

• "use a designated wheelchair entrance" for queues that weren't entirely wheelchair accessible,
• "provide a shaded wait area" for queues that were partially outside
• "provide an alternate entrance" for guests who couldn't wait in a standby queue, etc.

The last one worked as an immediate Fastpass all day long. Saying the right words to get this pass became commonplace, as the internet was rife with people sharing tips and tricks to obtain it. Disney was issuing them to literally everyone. The other cards became rarely used. On top of it, you had people getting this pass and giving unauthorized VIP tours, which became a big news story.

To replace GAC, DAS came out and was originally intended to curb abuse. Disney figured that by making guests wait the length of the standby line, people would be less likely to abuse it. This led to a giant lawsuit by the parents of autistic kids about having to wait this length of time but it persisted. However, like the GAC card before it, guests started to learn what to say to get the DAS pass and some self-inflicted wounds by Disney (eg not bringing back a line skipping process post-COVID, making G+ a confusing mess, etc) it led to this current abuse.

the tl;dr here is that DAS is the third iteration of Disney guests finding a way to abuse the system and get perks beyond those they should be getting.

 

[Grantwil93]

There’s 3 steps that might fix this issue:
1. More capacity
2. Limit genie sales
3. Reduce DAS use

They won’t do the first 2…so all the heat is directed to 3

Full agreement

Given the things being talked about for magic Kingdom and animal Kingdom and the like, I do think they know that we need more capacity. In fact, I can tell you that from my experience at least on a managerial level(talking to those in charge of different areas), it is known that more capacity is needed. Which is why even small things like that little Encanto show at Epcot or the drone show at Disney Springs or anything small like that are all ways to try to give more people things to do.

But other than small, little things like that, building capacity takes time and it's arguable that they may have dropped the ball in the last 5 to 10 years about adding capacity when they should have. So now they are gonna have to play catch up.

In the meantime the only other option is reducing the load on DAS, unfortunately. That's what it comes down too

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Full agreement

Given the things being talked about for magic Kingdom and animal Kingdom and the like, I do think they know that we need more capacity. In fact, I can tell you that from my experience at least on a managerial level(talking to those in charge of different areas), it is known that more capacity is needed. Which is why even small things like that little Encanto show at Epcot or the drone show at Disney Springs or anything small like that are all ways to try to give more people things to do.

But other than small, little things like that, building capacity takes time and it's arguable that they may have dropped the ball in the last 5 to 10 years about adding capacity when they should have. So now they are gonna have to play catch up.

In the meantime the only other option is reducing the load on DAS, unfortunately. That's what it comes down too

There are two things still they haven’t learned: build faster and never stop building.

It’s ironic because if they did that…their price ceilings and repeat business is near limitless.

They have cost themselves money by misreading how to make it.

So very Bob. Sitcom king

 

[Angel Ariel]

DAS goes in the ILL line, I believe. I could be wrong.

DAS users have to get a spot in the virtual queue first. If they get one, then when their boarding group is called they can go to the cast members at the entrance and they will convert it so you can enter through the LL. But all DAS users do have to go through the same VQ process that everyone has to go through, so are no more guaranteed to get a boarding group than anyone else.

 

[lentesta]

DAS users have to get a spot in the virtual queue first. If they get one, then when their boarding group is called they can go to the cast members at the entrance and they will convert it so you can enter through the LL. But all DAS users do have to go through the same VQ process that everyone has to go through, so are no more guaranteed to get a boarding group than anyone else.

I learned something today. Thank you!