Rumor New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[AndyS2992]

I don't understand, can you please clarify thnx

The other user is claiming the new terms of DAS is that it is for people with cognitive/mental disorders only, and not physical ones any more.

Which is odd, given Disney is implementing these changes to stop abuse, when in fact most people who were scamming the system would go to guest services, claiming someone in their party had autism, when they didn't, and would be given DAS.

Seems to me anyway, to clamp down on abuse would be to put less focus on cognitive issues, not more But it should be done on a case by case basis.

 

[pdude81]

So the company that had an army of lawyers go over this for months before doing anything just got the messaging wrong?

I think the message is clear.

Unless you have a developmental disorder you can eat dirt.

It's an FAQ though and not a policy definition. Since the language says "is intended to accommodate" and not "will only accommodate", my take is that it intentionally allows for flexibility and they just want to make sure people understand they are going to be more stringent on what qualifies moving forward. The only way people will know for sure it to contact disability services and find out what the criteria are/will be.

I really wish they hadn't figured out a way to block archive.org from showing what was on this page in prior years. Somehow it seems Stitch ate it every time.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Disney 100% allows and even encourages it. However, as a non-DAS user I am a little frustrated with the idea that a DAS user can get on more attractions that I can throughout the day (thus encouraging abuse, making standby lines longer, and reducing LL inventory). In my opinion people waiting for a DAS rides should be allowed to experience any aspect of the park that does not have a line (parades, shops, restaurants, any attraction that has no wait time), otherwise DAS will negativity affect non-DAS users.

This is an assumption based on neurotypical norms, and doesn't account for the fact that many DAS users cannot stay an entire day in the parks, or if they can they may be doing so at a significantly slower pace than typical families.

 

[Angel Ariel]

They give you the option to interview and set this up ahead of your trip though. So you would know beforehand whether or not both of you were able to have DAS on the trip, and could cancel at that point.

Currently Disney policy requires that you buy tickets prior to registering for DAS. Tickets are non-refundable, so that's a significant sunk cost if one finds out later they aren't eligible for DAS.

 

[Purduevian]

I hear what you are saying but also, is it so bad that someone with a disability gets to experience more attractions during their trip? My son's brain tumor and treatment will affect the rest of his life. I know you are primarily concerned about abusers of the system, but it's very upsetting to me to hear someone complaining about his advantages at a theme park.

Honestly I do not know where the line is of what advantages a DAS user should receive. Len previously showed a lawsuit where Disney said 3% of guests were taking 30% of a popular rides capacity (under GAC). That to me (and apparently Disney) seems unreasonable.

Legitimate DAS guests already have many disadvantages in life (and in experiencing a park day) and I'm not going to pretend to know all of them or quantify them. However, in my opinion there does need to be a limit to advantages given to DAS users in a park that disadvantage non-DAS guests.

Personally, yes in general I feel like getting in a queue for an attraction that has a line, while waiting in the standby/DAS return line is simply too much of an advantage. I have no problem with a DAS guest watching a parade, eating a snack/meal, seeing a show, riding the "transportation" rides, shopping, people watching, walk through attraction, relaxing, ect while waiting for their return time. Again personally to me, this feels like an appropriate accommodation/advantage for legitimate DAS guests.

I wish it could be taken on a case by case basis, but logistics wise there has to be at most 3 levels of accommodations at a place like Disney World.

I mean, Disney said in court - and was unchallenged in saying it - that GAC (the pre-DAS program) guests comprised 3% of park guest and accounted for 30% of ride capacity on popular attractions. Nobody has to believe anything I say.

I could be wrong, so check my math here:

• DHS averaged around 27,120 guests per day in 2012 [cite]
• 3% of 27,170 guests is 815 guests
• The hourly capacity of Toy Story Mania in 2012 was around 1,100 / hour (the third track was added in 2016 [cite])
  Here's why I think it's 1,100 in the real world - we've counted the number of people exiting the ride over time:
  View attachment 771556
  
• Let's assume DHS was open 12 hours per day in 2012.
  • That's 1,100 guests/hour x 12 hours = 13,200 guests that can ride per day
• 30% of that daily capacity for GAC use is 3,960 guests using GAC on that ride per day
• 3,960 GAC uses divided by 815 GAC guests is 4.86 uses per GAC guest

So using 2012 Toy Story Mania as an example, every GAC guest accounted for 4.86 rides on Toy Story Mania.

So it's possible to make that math work if every GAC guest had with them 3.86 people with them on average, for every ride.

How likely is that to happen just based on Florida tourism demographics?

A 2022 report from Visit Florida [link] - the state's tourism office - says that 51% of Florida tourists have no kids (the Affluent Mature at 17% + Moderate Mature at 20% + Young & Free at 14% = 51%)

View attachment 771557

Let's assume those no-kid families are all two-person families, because the numbers would look more unlikely if they were 1-person units.

And let's assume that GAC use is evenly distributed across those segments. I don' think it is - I think it's skewed older, which means ... fewer kids and smaller families. But again, let's play it safe because the math looks worse otherwise.

So if half of GAC guests are two-person units, what's the average size of the other 49% of GAC users, if the overall average is 4.86 people per GAC use?

Here's the equation to solve:

(0.51 x 2) + (X * 0.49) = 4.86
which is 1.02 + 0.49X = 4.86
which is 0.49X = (4.86 - 1.02)
which is 0.49X = 3.84
which is X = (3.84 / 0.49)
which gives X = 7.84 people per GAC group

The "soft limit" for GAC/DAS party size is 6, but it's up to the ride CM's discretion [cite].

Let's play it safe - because the numbers are more unlikely if we don't - and say that every CM approved every 7+-person group for GAC.

So it's possible for 3% of GAC guests legitimately to use 30% of a ride's capacity only if the average GAC family with kids had just under 8 people.

That seems ... unlikely. So what other explanations are there?

 

[flynnibus]

HIPAA doesn't apply (for ed to IBCCES) because the disabled person is choosing to share their medical information.

Negative Ghostrider - The choice to share information with someone has ZERO impact on the organization's requirement to protect your information. What you are confusing is the idea of who you can share WITH.

The majority of HIPAA requirements are about ensuring your information is not UNINTENTIONALLY leaked - not just who they INTENTIONALLY share with. So just because you give your information to someone (like your employer or a hospital) that does not absolve them from their obligations.

What matters in this conversation context is if the entity is even required to follow HIPAA rules as a covered entity or not. Not everyone is.

 

[Splash4eva]

You solve this one way and one way only. Require some type of documentation noone with any real disability would argue this and with the team of lawyers there has to be some loophole they can use that states it is causing operational issues bc of fraud. I dk but thats how this is solved.

 

[flynnibus]

But the ADA protection doesn't extend to families, so the legal mandate would be met without the could have, should have, would have interjection.

Not exactly - protection doesn't extend to families, but forcing the disabled person to be isolated would infringe on the disabled person's rights. That's why handicap seats have companion seats, etc.

The ambiguity comes into where the reasonable limits are.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

The other user is claiming the new terms of DAS is that it is for people with cognitive/mental disorders only, and not physical ones any more.

Which is odd, given Disney is implementing these changes to stop abuse, when in fact most people who were scamming the system would go to guest services, claiming someone in their party had autism, when they didn't, and would be given DAS.

Seems to me anyway, to clamp down on abuse would be to put less focus on cognitive issues, not more But it should be done on a case by case basis.

That's not a claim, it's something the admin of this website stated in the front page article on this news-

Notably, Disney has dramatically narrowed the scope of eligibility and now says that DAS is for guests with a "developmental disability like autism or similar.

IMO, this new set up probably won't do as much good with cutting down on fraud as some people on here think, and is also probably a huge lawsuit waiting to happen. It also sounds like it will be a huge issue to obtain for people who have physical disabilities and illnesses.

 

[Tha Realest]

The other user is claiming the new terms of DAS is that it is for people with cognitive/mental disorders only, and not physical ones any more.

Which is odd, given Disney is implementing these changes to stop abuse, when in fact most people who were scamming the system would go to guest services, claiming someone in their party had autism, when they didn't, and would be given DAS.

Seems to me anyway, to clamp down on abuse would be to put less focus on cognitive issues, not more But it should be done on a case by case basis.

I think it’s twofold.

They have made a strategic decision that the DAS is for those with developmental disabilities.*

For those with a claimed DD, they have to sufficiently establish this beforehand with Disney. I suspect they will be more rigorous in conferring DAS for a DD.

* Notwothstanding the language, I suspect GR will be able to make day-of concessions for those who don’t prequalify for DAS under a DD standard, or someone with an unusual physical impediment which would otherwise require DAS access.

 

[Brian]

I think it’s twofold.

They have made a strategic decision that the DAS is for those with developmental disabilities.*

For those with a claimed DD, they have to sufficiently establish this beforehand with Disney. I suspect they will be more rigorous in conferring DAS for a DD.

* Notwothstanding the language, I suspect GR will be able to make day-of concessions for those who don’t prequalify for DAS under a DD standard, or someone with an unusual physical impediment which would otherwise require DAS access.

Guest Relations will be under strict instructions not to grant any kind of accommodations based on disability once this program is implemented. Any and all disability inquiries will be referred to the virtual team.

 

[jaklgreen]

Or maybe they’re trying to find the thing that works the best for the most amount of people

Nobody can please everybody, especially Disney.

But DAS DID work for the most amount of people. It was fair and gave those who would not be able to enjoy the parks otherwise, the ability to do so. People with medical issues/disabilities just want to feel normal at times and shouldn't have to go through this stress and hassle just because there are those that lie and cheat.
I think a better approach would have been for Disney to start a better monitoring system and crack down on the abusers.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

It's an FAQ though and not a policy definition. Since the language says "is intended to accommodate" and not "will only accommodate", my take is that it intentionally allows for flexibility and they just want to make sure people understand they are going to be more stringent on what qualifies moving forward. The only way people will know for sure it to contact disability services and find out what the criteria are/will be.

I really wish they hadn't figured out a way to block archive.org from showing what was on this page in prior years. Somehow it seems Stitch ate it every time.

From my experience with a mother who has physical disabilities and ailments that genuinely qualify her (by her doctor's definitions) as disabled and handicapped, the existing system already make it a struggle to convince guest services to allow her into the DAS system over the past year or two. Even with clear evidence.

Saying "intended to accommodate those with autism and other developmental disabilies" is clearly meant to indicate that they don't consider physical disabilites to be within the scope of the program. And that they will, and in fact already are, taking steps to enforce that. They again have already told my mother that the existing program isn't supposed to accommodate most physical disabilities unless there is some sort of mental illness involved as well. So these policy changes have actually been ongoing for some time now, and it's unfortunate that a lot of people who genuinely need the system are likely going to be excluded.

 

[Trauma]

Guest Relations will be under strict instructions not to grant any kind of accommodations based on disability once this program is implemented. Any and all disability inquiries will be referred to the virtual team.

I don’t know how much Disney would have to pay me to work in guest relations.

Between this and G+ being a disaster it’s going to be a miserable existence.

 

[DeadyRoosevelt]

Personally, yes in general I feel like getting in a queue for an attraction that has a line, while waiting in the standby/DAS return line is simply too much of an advantage. I have no problem with a DAS guest watching a parade, eating a snack/meal, seeing a show, riding the "transportation" rides, shopping, people watching, walk through attraction, relaxing, ect while waiting for their return time. Again personally to me, this feels like an appropriate accommodation/advantage for legitimate DAS guests.

Understood. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[nickys]

Guest Relations will be under strict instructions not to grant any kind of accommodations based on disability once this program is implemented. Any and all disability inquiries will be referred to the virtual team.

How is this going to work? Guests having to do a video call on their phone standing around GS?

How the heck can Disney have messed up this announcement so badly?
- The wording suggests one thing, yet several people on here suggesting it isn’t the case.
- No clarity on how this “toilet pass” system will work (ECVs reversing through lines, trying to pass others etc)
- International guests have zero information, U.K. agents don’t even know what’s happening and Disney refuse to do video calls even with a vpn.

But don’t worry, there are a whole 5 weeks for them to sort it out.

 

[jaklgreen]

Something I haven't seen but may have missed is the current pre-booking 2 rides with DAS. Does this new setup eliminate that? It seems like an excessive accommodation to me, so I'm wondering if Disney realized that they don't need to offer it (and that offering it encourages abuse by those who don't actually need DAS).

I agree with this. As someone who uses DAS but didn't apply online, I always have said that they should not give these out and that it would encourage people to apply even if not needed.
They gave those as an incentive to use the online chat and I think that it backfired for them. But from most reports that I have seen from other DAS users, most never even ended being able to use those 2 preselects because the timing didn't work out.

 

[Purduevian]

This is an assumption based on neurotypical norms, and doesn't account for the fact that many DAS users cannot stay an entire day in the parks, or if they can they may be doing so at a significantly slower pace than typical families.

I will agree with the idea that many people that legitimately qualify for DAS should be allowed certain accommodations/advantages due to their conditions. I personally feel like they currently go to far because they are disadvantaging the non-DAS users too much. There is a balance of how much of an advantage DAS is given to park ride capacity and everyone's opinion on that balance will be different.

Side note: There are plenty of people/groups that are not able to stay at the park all day and move slower than other guests that do NOT qualify for DAS (think all mobility challenged users, those with young children, ect.) that do not get any sort of advantage.

 

[Surferboy567]

IMO, this new set up probably won't do as much good with cutting down on fraud as some people on here think, and is also probably a huge lawsuit waiting to happen. It also sounds like it will be a huge issue to obtain for people who have physical disabilities and illnesses.

I have to agree with Merlin on this. I also think if I’m understanding this right, could lead to a lawsuit. You cannot just leave those with actual legitimate physical disabilities out and then cater to those with only cognitive disabilities. That seems like you a leaving out an actual legitimate group out on purpose and I’m not sure that sits right.

 

[Hakunamatata]

I have to agree with Merlin on this. I also think if I’m understanding this right, could lead to a lawsuit. You cannot just leave those with actual legitimate physical disabilities out and then cater to those with only cognitive disabilities. That seems like you a leaving out an actual legitimate group out on purpose and I’m not sure that sits right.

Anything in Florida leads to a lawsuit.